F/A JENKINS UPDATE

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UPDATE

INTERESTING!

[TopHat]

CAREFUL...!

http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=61&p=2&c=621234&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fpackers.scout.com%2f2%2f621234.html

Sydney Speaks! Let's be careful with Jenkins by Sidney SC

PackerReport.com's Harry Sydney offers his thoughts on how the Green Bay Packers should handle defensive end Cullen Jenkins.

[Partial]

Wow. All I can say is "wow"!

12 months ago half the people here thought it was crazy if Kampman was offered more than $2 million/year. Now they want to give Jenkins 4- 5 million.

Jenkins has shown FLASHES, not consistency at all. He was considered a liability at DT in the run game, which is why he never got more playing time than he did. Yes, he looked like he was better then KGB those last four games at DE, BUT it was only four games. His career stats look like Kampman's for 2005 alone, the year before he signed.

Kampman showed much, much more in potential and actual production in his first three years than Jenkins has, yet Kampman was tendered for his 4th year and was still signed longterm for his 5th. GB should do the same thing with Jenkins.

Jenkin's value is what it was December 1. Four games didn't make it go up by a factor of three.

What the tender cost is doesn't really matter for 2007. GB can afford it. What they can't afford is having him be in 2009 what KGB is now.

finally, backup. others that don't think he's been an all pro his whole career

where they hell were you yesterday morning?

i don't ever see him being an elite DE, demanding big money. i see him as possibly being a solid starter, not much more

IMO, he wants solid starter money right now, and i don't think we've seen enough to know if he is there yet.

give him the tender like i've been saying, and let him play this year. if he does well for maybe the first 6 or 8 games, then give him that solid starter money he wanted. i don't think he's going to set the world on fire, so his value shouldn't go up that much, if any

and to whoever said, who cares we can afford it. if we make a bunch of careless moves like i think this would be right now, and some of these players turn out to not be worth the money and we have to cut them, you'd see our cap situation go down the drain really fast

If he was elite he'd get 2-3x the amount we are suggesting. We are merely opposing another KGB-esque misjudgement as Wist said.

[red]

can you name one nfl player who has ever signed a 5 year 75 million dollar deal? like you suggest the elite players make

john abraham signed a 6 year 45 million dollar deal last year. averages 7.5 million a year.

for a proven top teir elite DE
pat williams just a couple months ago became one of, if not the highest paid DT ever with a 7 year 50 million dollar deal. averages just over 7 million a year

both were young guys that had already been to the probowl, both are elite players at their positions

5 million a year for jenkins right now is just too much for me

jenkins, we think, wants about what kampman got last year, but when kampman got that deal he had shown a whole hell of a lot more IMO then jenkins has at this point

[HarveyWallbangers]

Pat Williams is 34 years old. Hardly young. John Abraham was coming off serious injuries, and was hardly considered elite. 5y, $75M is overboard, but considering what some of these guys got before the salary cap increased the last couple of years, it's only a matter of time before a DE gets over $10M/year.

Defensive ends

Jason Taylor, Miami: $9,464,625
Simeon Rice, Tampa Bay: $9,200,000
Richard Seymour, New England: $8,979,000

[red]

Pat Williams is 34 years old. Hardly young. John Abraham was coming off serious injuries, and was hardly considered elite. 5y, $75M is overboard, but considering what some of these guys got before the salary cap increased the last couple of years, it's only a matter of time before a DE gets over $10M/year.

Defensive ends

Jason Taylor, Miami: $9,464,625
Simeon Rice, Tampa Bay: $9,200,000
Richard Seymour, New England: $8,979,000

kevin williams, my bad

darren howard, the 5th highest paid DE. has a 6 year 30 million dollar deal he did last off season. which is the same per year that people that jenkins should get

the other of the top 10 averaged about 6.5 to 8 million a year for the deals they did

and i go back to kampman, 5 year 25 million last season. people already knew the cap was going way up. and kampman had already been a starter for a full year and had proven himself by putting up good numbers

IMO jenkins contract should be less then what kampman got, a good amount lower

and kampman is only one year older then jenkins. last year (the year before he got his big contract) kampman had 6.5 sacks and 81 tackles. this year jenkins had the same amount of sacks, but 50 less tackles

[PackerPro42]

How many times do I have to say this, Jenkins doesn't get to decide what he gets. He's a RFA.

[pbmax]

I don't remember too many people insisting Kampman come in only at $2 million per. But remember, most of those discussions came while the CBA was being negotiated. And it took a huge jump last year.

If you had taken a poll of Kampman's worth after the CBA but before the contract, everyone's estimate of his value would have increased.

Wow. All I can say is "wow"!

12 months ago half the people here thought it was crazy if Kampman was offered more than $2 million/year. Now they want to give Jenkins 4- 5 million.

Jenkins has shown FLASHES, not consistency at all. He was considered a liability at DT in the run game, which is why he never got more playing time than he did. Yes, he looked like he was better then KGB those last four games at DE, BUT it was only four games. His career stats look like Kampman's for 2005 alone, the year before he signed.

Kampman showed much, much more in potential and actual production in his first three years than Jenkins has, yet Kampman was tendered for his 4th year and was still signed longterm for his 5th. GB should do the same thing with Jenkins.

Jenkin's value is what it was December 1. Four games didn't make it go up by a factor of three.

What the tender cost is doesn't really matter for 2007. GB can afford it. What they can't afford is having him be in 2009 what KGB is now.

[pbmax]

As others have suggested, it isn't an evaluation of Jenkins talent that might lead you to tender him higher than KGB, its a ploy.

If the first round tender (or the first and a third) keeps teams from negotiating with him, his long term price will be lower.

As wist correctly recalls, KGB was overpaid not because of a failure of evaluation, but a failure to tender him high enough. He then attracted offers and drove up his price.

If somebody named Anti-Polar Bear were here, we could point out to him again that this was another manifestation of Sherman's salary cap mismanagment. He was so tight against the cap in each year that his tenders were always dangerously low. He also just about lost Na'il Diggs this way.

I'm not sure if this case is analogous to the KGB one. All indications are that Thompson is a much better evaluator of football playing talent than Sherman is. Since TT has seen a hell of a lot more of Jenkins than I have, he's probably a much better judge of how much he's worth. Sherman showed that he was more than willing to throw a pile of money at a player whose playing ability (as opposed to measurables) is questionable. Thompson has not.

[Partial]

Pat Williams is 34 years old. Hardly young. John Abraham was coming off serious injuries, and was hardly considered elite. 5y, $75M is overboard, but considering what some of these guys got before the salary cap increased the last couple of years, it's only a matter of time before a DE gets over $10M/year.

Defensive ends

Jason Taylor, Miami: $9,464,625
Simeon Rice, Tampa Bay: $9,200,000
Richard Seymour, New England: $8,979,000

kevin williams, my bad

darren howard, the 5th highest paid DE. has a 6 year 30 million dollar deal he did last off season. which is the same per year that people that jenkins should get

the other of the top 10 averaged about 6.5 to 8 million a year for the deals they did

and i go back to kampman, 5 year 25 million last season. people already knew the cap was going way up. and kampman had already been a starter for a full year and had proven himself by putting up good numbers

IMO jenkins contract should be less then what kampman got, a good amount lower

and kampman is only one year older then jenkins. last year (the year before he got his big contract) kampman had 6.5 sacks and 81 tackles. this year jenkins had the same amount of sacks, but 50 less tackles

That is simply salary. Not compensation. Look at singing bonus, roster bonus and annual salary.

[red]

Pat Williams is 34 years old. Hardly young. John Abraham was coming off serious injuries, and was hardly considered elite. 5y, $75M is overboard, but considering what some of these guys got before the salary cap increased the last couple of years, it's only a matter of time before a DE gets over $10M/year.

Defensive ends

Jason Taylor, Miami: $9,464,625
Simeon Rice, Tampa Bay: $9,200,000
Richard Seymour, New England: $8,979,000

kevin williams, my bad

darren howard, the 5th highest paid DE. has a 6 year 30 million dollar deal he did last off season. which is the same per year that people that jenkins should get

the other of the top 10 averaged about 6.5 to 8 million a year for the deals they did

and i go back to kampman, 5 year 25 million last season. people already knew the cap was going way up. and kampman had already been a starter for a full year and had proven himself by putting up good numbers

IMO jenkins contract should be less then what kampman got, a good amount lower

and kampman is only one year older then jenkins. last year (the year before he got his big contract) kampman had 6.5 sacks and 81 tackles. this year jenkins had the same amount of sacks, but 50 less tackles

That is simply salary. Not compensation. Look at singing bonus, roster bonus and annual salary.

no, thats not just simply salary. thats the whole thing

i looked up the contracts of all of the top 10 highest paid DE's on that list

thats total contract divided by amount of years

[Patler]

I don't remember too many people insisting Kampman come in only at $2 million per. But remember, most of those discussions came while the CBA was being negotiated. And it took a huge jump last year.

If you had taken a poll of Kampman's worth after the CBA but before the contract, everyone's estimate of his value would have increased.

Even before the CBA was finalized, it was known that the cap would be at least in the mid to upper 90s, most were saying about $96-98 million range. Finalization of the CB increased the calulations for the cap and took it even higher.

There were plenty who argued Kampman should get only $2-3 million, even AFTER he was signed, because I remember arguing with several that the figure they suggested was barely more than the average salary of an NFL player.

[Scott Campbell]

Wasn't he originally signed as a street Free Agent? If they tender him and get a first in compensation, that wouldn't be such a bad thing. If they overpay him based on 4 games, and he starts drawing comparisons to Joe Johnson, that would be a very bad thing.

[RashanGary]

I think he's pretty good. I have no problem with a long term deal that is somewhere in the range of an average NFL starter.

[Patler]

When a player is a RFA there is a maximum to how much you can offer him, with that maximum comes a specific tender. When a team is interested in the player, they can offer him whatever they want plus the tender the team has set. After you find a team that is willing to place the tender on him and give him a generally large contract, the Packers can either chose to match the offer or take the tender in exchange for him.

So when you guys are saying that Jenkins is demanding so much money, it's incorrect because he doesn't have a say so into the amount of money he gets until another team offers him a contract.

From the time he becomes a free agent, he is free to negotiate with any team he wants until June 1. During that time period, the only difference between an RFA and a FA is that if the previous team makes a qualifying tender offer before the start of free agency, they retain a right of first refusal for the RFA, with possible compensation if they don't match, depending on the size of the qualifying tender.

There is no maximum on what GB can offer Jenkins at this time, which is why they are discussing a possible long term deal. BUT, to retain his RFA rights they will have to make a qualifying tender offer in time.

Jenkins has a say in it and can "demand" whatever he wants. After all, they call them contract "negotiations" for a reason, He can 'demand" a long term deal for whatever he wants from GB or another team. He can refuse to play for GB for the tender if he wants to. The only thing he can't do is sign an offer sheet from another team and then refuse to play for GB if they match it after GB has tendered him.