Interesting comments on Mike Sherman by Dylan Tomlinson

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sherman stunk as a GM. I don't think there's any arguing left to be done.

[Partial]

Sherman stunk as a GM. I don't think there's any arguing left to be done.

Right, and its been done for 3 years. No sense in living in the past and debating. Whats done is done, time to look towards the future and what TT can do.

[retailguy]

Sherman stunk as a GM. I don't think there's any arguing left to be done.

Personally, I've always disagreed with that. Time is showing MANY of the things people point to, in order to criticize him are off base or distorted. Those of us, besides Tank, that consistently defend him don't say that he will ever be "GM of the year", however, he surely doesn't "stink" as bad as many of the GM's still employed in this league.

Sherman got caught in a philosophical change within the Green Bay organization. That change happened, most likely, as a result of his "failure" to get to the Super Bowl.

This whole issue is in no way as "simple" as you make it out to be. Quite honestly Harvey, I know you know better than that.

[MadtownPacker]

I understand what Sherm was trying to do (win a SB with Favre) but for a blind loyalist like Retailguy to deny that Sherm the GM sucked just proves he truly is full of Koolaid among other things.

[red]

I understand what Sherm was trying to do (win a SB with Favre) but for a blind loyalist like Retailguy to deny that Sherm the GM sucked just proves he truly is full of Koolaid among other things.

yeah, he's senile, and off his meds

[mraynrand]

I understand what Sherm was trying to do (win a SB with Favre) but for a blind loyalist like Retailguy to deny that Sherm the GM sucked just proves he truly is full of Koolaid among other things.

Why is it that when people try to evaluate Sherman objectively, they become 'blind loyalists' only if they happen to disagree with your assessment?

A GM who sucks doesn't draft two pro bowlers in his first (rookie) year as GM. A GM who sucks doesn't pick one of the best players ever drafted at position #29. A GM who sucks doesn't bring in three quality rookie FAs and several FA that are quality either in a trade (#2 pick for Harris) or off the scrap heap (Grady Jackson).

Of course, people like to say how terrible it was that Sherman drafted a failed punter, but Ron Wolf blew a #3 pick on Conway. People harp about how Sherman blew #3 picks and late picks on failed linemen, but then ignore Wolf guys like Holland, Warren, and Brown. People condemn Sherman for a terrible draft like 2004, but then try to ignore Wolf's final draft, both of which netted two marginal/conditional starters. (Or they try to pass off the 2001 draft as being Sherman's when all the factual evidence says it was Wolf's draft).

The reason people think Sherman sucked, versus he was so-so, is that they focus only on the negatives. That's much more like a 'blind loyalist' in the negative sense than anyone who tries to objectively analyze Sherman.

[MadtownPacker]

The reason people think Sherman sucked, versus he was so-so, is that they focus only on the negatives. That's much more like a 'blind loyalist' in the negative sense than anyone who tries to objectively analyze Sherman.

Take your blinders off before you crash on a curve...

When I say Sherm sucked I dont really mean his picks so much cuz like you said, many where good, but as GM his job was also to keep the team well stocked and in good cap situation. Sherman failed terribly at both. Like I said, I understand that he was under pressure to win NOW but he didnt know when to go back to the drawing board and restock and that is what doomed him. His damn stubborness.

[Zool]

So is your contention is that he should have been given more time? I would definitely not agree with that. He made far too many bad judgment calls to keep his GM job. When you're a GM, you have to make more good calls than bad calls to keep your job IMO.

Sherman as a coach, I dont want to get into because thats an opinion based discussion. I personally hated him as a coach, but I know plenty of people loved him.

If I was Harlan, I would have stripped him of his GM title 30 seconds after he traded UP for a punter.

[Scott Campbell]

Perhaps if Harlan had left him in place he would have run the organization into the ground, but we don't know that. .

Perhaps if we freed Charles Manson he would kill again, but we don't know that.

[BlueBrewer]

Sherman has rabbit ears, that is hilarious.

[mraynrand]

If I was Harlan, I would have stripped him of his GM title 30 seconds after he traded UP for a punter.

You know it wasn't that simple (it was actually worse, the way Sherman manuvered picks). But do you think Harlan should have fired Wolf when Brett Conway failed as a #3 draft pick? Should Wolf have been fired for blowing a #5 pick on Buckley or a #10 and Hasselbeck on Reynolds? Certainly those two failed picks are worse than any Sherman made, considering where they were picked.

People want to blame Sherman for leaving the cupboard bare, but Wolf had two drafts in 1999 and 2001 that only netted four starters. He had a tremendous year in 2000, but McKenzie, Driver, Martin, and Ferguson were not enough from two drafts.

[mraynrand]

Perhaps if Harlan had left him in place he would have run the organization into the ground, but we don't know that. .

Perhaps if we freed Charles Manson he would kill again, but we don't know that.

Pretty funny, but not an apt analogy. Sherman's worst record as a GM was 10-6, so there was no precendent for him producing overall a terrible team.

[mraynrand]

The reason people think Sherman sucked, versus he was so-so, is that they focus only on the negatives. That's much more like a 'blind loyalist' in the negative sense than anyone who tries to objectively analyze Sherman.

Take your blinders off before you crash on a curve...

When I say Sherm sucked I dont really mean his picks so much cuz like you said, many where good, but as GM his job was also to keep the team well stocked and in good cap situation. Sherman failed terribly at both. Like I said, I understand that he was under pressure to win NOW but he didnt know when to go back to the drawing board and restock and that is what doomed him. His damn stubborness.

Don't you think that if he had changed his strategy from 'win now' to 'focus on the draft' the Packers would have suffered a similar 4-12 season in 2005?

In any case, I think it's a valid point to argue that Sherman may have continued to try and keep the team afloat with his method of trading picks for players or trying to strike gold by trading up in the draft , and that it may have eventually caused a collapse of the team. But didn't TT effectively, deliberately bring this about in 2005? If Harlan was convinced that Sherman would never change draft strategy, and he believed in a GM who valued draft picks more highly, then Harlan made the right move. But that being said, it still doesn't guarantee that TT will be any better at drafting guys. That remains to be determined.

[Patler]

Every GM makes draft "mistakes".
Sherman's biggest failing was that he continually traded up, even in the low rounds. As a result, everyone of his "mistakes" counted double, and slowly but surely the strength of the roster eroded. He geve hmself less room for error, and he wasn't up to it.

[Zool]

If I was Harlan, I would have stripped him of his GM title 30 seconds after he traded UP for a punter.

You know it wasn't that simple (it was actually worse, the way Sherman manuvered picks). But do you think Harlan should have fired Wolf when Brett Conway failed as a #3 draft pick? Should Wolf have been fired for blowing a #5 pick on Buckley or a #10 and Hasselbeck on Reynolds? Certainly those two failed picks are worse than any Sherman made, considering where they were picked.

People want to blame Sherman for leaving the cupboard bare, but Wolf had two drafts in 1999 and 2001 that only netted four starters. He had a tremendous year in 2000, but McKenzie, Driver, Martin, and Ferguson were not enough from two drafts.

Kicker in the 3rd is miles apart from trading away picks to draft a punter. Everyone reaches on picks and fails. Sherman reached over a railing and fell off a balcony with that one. How many teams even draft a punter at all let alone a first day pick? He was clearly not thinking straight. Its like trading up to draft a long snapper in the 3rd who has no o-line skills.

Its just impossible to fathom and from that moment on I lost all respect for the man. 4th and 1, 4th and 26. Blame them on who you will. The half Wolf half Sherman draft, no one here will ever know who was in control of those picks. I have read articles saying both sides.

All GM's screw up. You just have to make more good decisions than bad ones, and avoid the "blooper reel" picks. Punters are blooper reel picks.