Interesting comments on Mike Sherman by Dylan Tomlinson

[prsnfoto]

About the only credit I can give Sherman the GM is that he was no worse than Wolf the GM from 1998-2001,though I place a lot more blame on Sherman than RG and mraynrand I place the same amount on Wolf he was great from the begining through the SB's but his handling of Holmgren,Rhodes, and Sherman was as suspisious as Bubba's Minnesota game last year it appears he was trying to throw the game. He was terrible and I was scared to death when he recomended TT lets hope he has decided his legacy is safe now and someone else can be successful in GB again. Besides us as fans this was a injustice to Brett he deserved better and that will always be the part that pisses me off.

[red]

you do now that sherman killed jesus right? thats just common knowledge

I'm aware of this. It was no accident that Sherman's mother named him Michael "Pontius Pilate" Sherman.

You also heard that he is the "brains" behind Osama bin Laden as well?

i assumed he was osama

and sadam

and maybe dracula

[Scott Campbell]

Re: Sherman

Sherman let a sub-par Falcon team come into Lambeau and win. Give me your lame excuse for that one.

This is the position that some take - that being the Packers were better than the Falcons and should have won this game - that kills their credibility utterly. The Falcons gave the Packers all they could handle in game one of 2002. Sixteen games later the packers had lost 9 starters, 7 on offense and 2 on defense to injury.

I actually agree with you here. This was no doubt Sherman's finest moment as a coach here. There should be no shame in losing to that ATL club at home given the state of the decimated roster.

Sherman did not lose my support as a coach until the Philly game. And I turned on a dime.

[gureski]

I can't believe that there are still guys out there that refuse to admit Sherman was a bad GM. Not poor. Bad.

As I skimmed through the earlier posts in this thread the one thing that caught my eye was someone ripping on Wolf and praising Sherman because Sherman kept the O-Line together where-as Wolf always shuttled someone else into the line up.

HELLO? Wolf had talented guys ready that were making peanuts compared to what it would've taken to keep some of the linemen he let go! He let A.Taylor go and inserted M.Rivera. He let Timmerman go and inserted M.Wahle. What Wolf did in just this one example of GM'ing is exactly what a good GM is supposed to do. You're supposed to balance the here-and-now with the future. Sherman never did this. He never had guys waiting in the wings to come in and take over. That's why the team talent level declined under his GM direction.

I've done the numbers in past debates about this. When you look at the facts you cannot say Sherman was a good GM. You just can't. I went back and found an old post I made in which I list some facts including which players were Wolf guys and which players were Sherman guys. Take a look at it:

"Let's take a look at the overall picture from the beginning of last year 2004:

Taucher (R2000) WOLF, Started 14 games in 2000
Clifton (R2000) WOLF, Started 10 games in 2000
Flanagan WOLF, (R 1996) Backed up Frank Winters and battled injury for years
Wahle (Supplemental - I think 99) WOLF Started 13 games in 1999
Rivera (R 1996) WOLF
Green (FA2000) WOLF via trade
W.Henderson (R 1995) WOLF
Driver (R1999) WOLF
Ferguson (R2001) Sherman/Wolf and not a starter
Walker (R2002) Sherman
Franks (2000) WOLF started 13 games in 2000
Favre WOLF via trade

10 out of the 11 starters on offense were WOLF guys. 1 (Walker) was a Sherman guy and I'll give you Ferguson as a key contributor overall making 2 guys that were from Sherman who we can say were his guys.


KGB (R2000) WOLF
Kampman (R02) Sherman
C.Hunt (R 1999) WOLF
Jackson (FA03 and 04) Sherman Free agent pick up
Diggs (R2000) WOLF
Barnett (R2003) Sherman
H.Naives FA 2003 Sherman
McKenzie (R1999) WOLF
Harris (FA 03) Sherman Trade with Philly
Carrol (R04) Sherman
Sharper (R1997) WOLF
Roman FA 2004 Sherman

5 Guys on Defense that Wolf drafted and McKenzie was jettisoned quickly.

7 Guys who Sherman gets credit for bringing in on defense.

Where did we stink last year again? DEFENSE.

Special Teams:
Kickers: Longwell WOLF FA signing
Punter: Barker Sherman FA Signing

Which position was set and which position was a nightmare? PK was set. Punter was a nightmare because Sherman sent Bidwell, a Wolf guy, packing."

end quote

I know this is long but stick with me for a moment. I'm seriously trying to reach the last of the Sherman GM supporters the way I reached the Nall-ball boys.

It's just fact that the more Sherman did with the team that Wolf gave him, the worse off the roster was. The more Sherman handled the salary cap, the more it got mangled to the point that we had to lose valuable players like Wahle. Sherman traded up something like 7 or times over his drafts and the loss of those valuable draft picks is a direct reason why Sherman stunk as GM. When you go for a homerun swing on a player by trading up and that player doesnt pan out then you not only set the roster back by that one player you missed on but also by the player that would've been picked had you just stood pat! It's like losing twice for every time he traded up and it didn't work!

You can GM a year or two with the attitude that you're one player away from winning but you can't do that over the long haul and still have a roster full of talent. You MUST replace talent ahead of time. You MUST groom players to play. You MUST draft players and develop them in order to keep the balance between the here-and-now and the future. Young draft picks help balance the salary cap and allow you to keep high priced players. The Draft IS the KEY to everything in the NFL. If it wasn't then the Redskins would be going on their 6th consecutive Superbowl run. It's all about the draft and that's where Sherman failed most. You need to get guys every year in order to be a successful GM. Thompson has 3 ALL-ROOKIE players and multiple starters/contributors from his two drafts. Wolf had countless draft picks that were incredible and he won a Superbowl with his picks. Sherman has next to nothing on his draft resume as GM. He traded up for Walker, picked N.Barnett, and A.Kampman. What other players of note did he really draft? What Sherman players are on the team right now that are giving McCarthy and Thompson the same base to play with that Wolf gave to Sherman?

The answer is that there is little to nothing there from the Sherman GM era. You can't deny that. It's just fact. Getting a couple of players isn't success. Look around the leauge. Good GM's replace the talent they lose to injuries, free agency, and retirement. Pittsburgh lost players for years and still replaced them every year and competed. That's what Sherman was supposed to do. That's what he failed at. He just wasn't a good GM. He was above average to great as a head coach but he just flat out stunk as a GM.

[Zool]

[Guiness]

Football, hockey - same, same when it comes to being an HC/GM. Has anyone EVER, EVER, EVER succeeded at doing both?

IMO the answer is no. I'm sure there's one out there I've missed, but I essentially think it's a bad idea for any organization to hand all this to one person. Absolute power...and all that jazz.

[woodbuck27]

Football, hockey - same, same when it comes to being an HC/GM. Has anyone EVER, EVER, EVER succeeded at doing both?

IMO the answer is no. I'm sure there's one out there I've missed, but I essentially think it's a bad idea for any organization to hand all this to one person. Absolute power...and all that jazz.

How about Scotty Bowman? He wasn't too bad.

[esoxx]

Football, hockey - same, same when it comes to being an HC/GM. Has anyone EVER, EVER, EVER succeeded at doing both?

Vince Lombardi

[MJZiggy]

Wow, how did I not immediately think of him?

[imscott72]

Football, hockey - same, same when it comes to being an HC/GM. Has anyone EVER, EVER, EVER succeeded at doing both?

Vince Lombardi

The economics of the game were quite different in the Lombardi era.

[esoxx]

That's not the way the question was phrased though. The word "EVER" was emphasized.

So the answer's quite valid.

[b bulldog]

Shanahan has done quite well. Andy Reid has also done well.

[Guiness]

Dang Woody, leave it to the other Canuck to show me up on that one.

Yes, Bowman did succeed (9 cups!) but his championships came when he was a coach only. He did little in Buffalo with the dual roles. With both Les Habitant and the Wings, he was coach only when he brought the cup home.

Lombardi - ok, maybe I shouldn't have put 'ever' in there. One of his most famous actions was leaving the room to trade a player who'd just asked for a raise. A little more power than GM's have now.

Shanny and Reid - yes, obviously successful. Does Reid have full GM duties? I didn't think so.