Is Ahman Green worth 23 million over 3 years??!!

[red]

What about New England and Pittsburgh. They had similar philosophies. Pittsburgh rarely signs big name FAs, and often let's their big name FAs walk. New England didn't build through FA. They got a couple of guys in trades, but Brady, Branch, Givens, Light, Wilfork, Seymour, Samuel, Bruschi, Vinatieri, McGinest, etc. were all guys they drafted.

new england is a myth

they got a lot of players through free agency

i've done threads on it before. and the nfl did a run down the other day of guys they brought in to help them start their little dynasty. they muct have rattled of 12 names of guys the signed that either became starters or played a large part in their rise

they drafted a lot of good talent. but went they needed to, they went out and got guys. they didn't shun it and see it as something evil like TT does

[HarveyWallbangers]

Who did New England get in FA?.

Look at some of their key players in the Super Bowl years:

QB Brady - drafted
WR Branch - drafted
WR Givens - drafted
WR Brown - drafted
TE Graham - drafted
TE Watson - drafted
OT Light - drafted
OC Koppen - drafted
OC Woody - drafted
OG Neal - rookie FA
DL Warren - drafted
DL Wilfork - drafted
DL Seymour - drafted
LB Vrabel - drafted
LB Johnson - drafted
LB Bruschi - drafted
CB Samuel - drafted
CB Law - drafted
S Jones - drafted
S Milloy - drafted
K Vinatieri - drafted

There were no more than a handful of FAs on any of those teams. And many were sort of bit parts or FAs that were not big names--like Antowain Smith, Roman Phifer (at his age), Ross Hochstein (street FA), and Joe Andruzzi. Harrison and Colvin are two of the few big name FAs that the Patriots had. The guys that stuck around for multiple Super Bowls (the core players) were mostly drafted. Green Bay had as many FAs as New England had most of those years.

[esoxx]

No, the New England "myth" is that they win despite having no talent. It's just b/c Belichick is a genius and outschemes the other teams.

Except this past year when they chocked away a 21-3 lead to the Colts in the AFC Championship game. He must have forgot to be a genius that day.

[red]

Who did New England get in FA?.

Look at some of their key players in the Super Bowl years:

QB Brady - drafted
WR Branch - drafted
WR Givens - drafted
WR Brown - drafted
TE Graham - drafted
TE Watson - drafted
OT Light - drafted
OC Koppen - drafted
OC Woody - drafted
OG Neal - rookie FA
DL Warren - drafted
DL Wilfork - drafted
DL Seymour - drafted
LB Vrabel - drafted
LB Johnson - drafted
LB Bruschi - drafted
CB Samuel - drafted
CB Law - drafted
S Jones - drafted
S Milloy - drafted
K Vinatieri - drafted

There were no more than a handful of FAs on any of those teams. And many were sort of bit parts or FAs that were not big names--like Antowain Smith, Roman Phifer (at his age), Ross Hochstein (street FA), and Joe Andruzzi. Harrison and Colvin are two of the few big name FAs that the Patriots had. The guys that stuck around for multiple Super Bowls (the core players) were mostly drafted. Green Bay had as many FAs as New England had most of those years.

they didn't draft vrabel, he was a FA from the steelers

Mike Compton was a big free agent pickup for them

bryan cox was a part of the 2001 team and co-d captain

antowain smith was more then just a bit player, he was brought in and was the starter for a few years

more then half their team in 2001 were brought in through FA (i'm sure some of that number is undrafted FA like AV

in 2002 more then half that team was made up of former FA

here instead of me taking all day to type this out just go here

http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=2002Roster

sure, they drafted a lot of good talent, but they also signed quite a few FA's to help them get to that elite level

[GrnBay007]

No, the New England "myth" is that they win despite having no talent. It's just b/c Belichick is a genius and outschemes the other teams.

Except this past year when they chocked away a 21-3 lead to the Colts in the AFC Championship game. He must have forgot to be a genius that day.

He was thinking about his expensive girlfriend that day! :P

[Scott Campbell]

He was thinking about his expensive girlfriend that day! :P

Girlfriends aren't nearly as expensive as wives.

[GrnBay007]

He was thinking about his expensive girlfriend that day! :P

Girlfriends aren't nearly as expensive as wives.

LOL ....poor Scott! :P

[imscott72]

What about New England and Pittsburgh. They had similar philosophies. Pittsburgh rarely signs big name FAs, and often let's their big name FAs walk. New England didn't build through FA. They got a couple of guys in trades, but Brady, Branch, Givens, Light, Wilfork, Seymour, Samuel, Bruschi, Vinatieri, McGinest, etc. were all guys they drafted.

Harvey, it remains to be seen that some holes won't be filled. HOWEVER, considering his history, it is UNLIKELY. I would hate to see this team begin the season with a "few" holes. Some "lower tier' free agents probably works on offense, PROVIDED they pan out. I still have vivid memories of some turnstile guards who didn't work out as planned. Gambling with Ahman Green is just STUPID. There is no other word for it. Not that much money at risk here. If not Green, then get someone in here. Why no interest there?

I remain unconvinced that the defense is up the task. I do think a "name" free agent would help. Thomas, perhaps, however, his price tag is ridiculously high. We need an experienced safety desperately, and I don't understand the lack of interest in Hamlin either. It makes little sense, and just confirms for me that we're in this REBUILDING for several more years.

Wow. it sure is a good thing some people in here aren't GM's. My goodness, FA just started less than a day ago and we have some people hypervenalating already...Give the guy a few days or even a week to do something?

[HarveyWallbangers]

That 2001 New England team's best players were guys they drafted. More than half of their starters were guys they drafted, and they were their best players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVI

True. They did fill them in the roster with FAs. More than I thought, so I'll give you that much. However few were name FAs that you guys are clamoring for. Otis Smith was 35-years-old and nobody wanted him. Roman Phifer was 33-years-old and he wasn't coveted. David Patten had 71 career receptions in 4 years with Cleveland and the Giants. He wasn't coveted. Anthony Pleasant was 33-years-old and on his 6th NFL team. Andruzzi was considered nothing more than average in Green Bay. Mike Vrabel had no more than 18 tackles and 2.5 sacks in any of his 4 years in Pittsburgh. He didn't become a name until he went to New England. I'll give you Antowain Smith and Mike Compton--although those guys weren't even that high profile. Smith had less than 1000 yards rushing combined his two years prior in Buffalo, and wasn't that highly coveted. Compton was a decent starter for Detroit. He might be the most high profile, and he wasn't that highly touted. Belichek did his best coaching job that year. Most of their FAs would bring yawns in this forum if Green Bay signed those types of guys now. Most of the FAs weren't even on the team in 2004. Meanwhile, their best players (Brady, Brown, Light, Woody, Seymour, Bruschi, Milloy, Jones, Law, Bruschi, Vinatieri) were guys they drafted.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What about their 2004 Super Bowl team?

17 of their 22 starters were drafted by them or were signed as rookie or street FAs. One was traded for. Three were no name or non-high profile FAs. Rodney Harrison was the only high profile FA on that team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXIX

David Givens - drafted
Matt Light - drafted
Joe Andruzzi - no name FA
Dan Koppen - drafted
Steve Neal - rookie FA
Brandon Gorin - street FA
Daniel Graham - drafted
Deion Branch - drafted
Tom Brady - drafted
Corey Dillon - trade
Patrick Pass - rookie FA

Richard Seymour - drafted
Vince Wilfork - drafted
Ty Warren - drafted
Willie McGinest - drafted
Tedy Bruschi - drafted
Roman Phifer - no name FA
Mike Vrabel - no name FA
Randall Gay - drafted
Asante Samuel - drafted
Rodney Harrison - FA
Eugene Wilson - drafted

[HarveyWallbangers]

How does that compare to the 2006 Packers roster

QB Brett Favre - trade
RB Ahman Green - trade
FB Brandon Miree - street FA
WR Donald Driver - draft
WR Greg Jennings - draft
LT Chad Clifton - draft
LG Daryn Colledge - draft
C Scott Wells - draft
RG Jason Spitz - draft
RT Mark Tauscher - draft
TE Bubba Franks - draft

LE Aaron Kampman - draft
DT Ryan Pickett - FA
DT Corey Williams - draft
RE Cullen Jenkins - street FA
LB Brady Poppinga - draft
LB Nick Barnett - draft
LB A.J. Hawk - draft
CB Al Harris - trade
CB Charles Woodson - FA
S Nick Collins - draft
S Marquand Manuel - FA

16 draft picks or street FAs, 3 guys traded for, and 3 FAs. Not a whole lot different. Hopefully, Manuel will and Bubba will be replaced by FAs or draft picks. Maybe Ted signs a Ken Hamlin or Eric Johnson. I'll let it play out. I'm a little discouraged that he doesn't seem to be that busy, but I think his moves (except for Manuel) paid off pretty well last year. I'll wait for a few weeks before judging how he's done in this FA period.

[chain_gang]

Now that's thing about Free Agency, 1 big signing if need be, is nice, but too many anything over 2 seems to disrupt the camaraderie of the team, and I feel that is why NE was so successful over the years, they built mainly through the draft resigned their own players, that they deemed irreplaceable. And made smart veteran FA acquisitions, with few Superstar signings. That's why teams like the Vikes, Skins, Cowboys haven't been in superbowls lately. Too many Me-first FA signings, The key seems to be to draft your own impact players, and bring in role players, and leadership vets via FA and Trades.

[imscott72]

Now that's thing about Free Agency, 1 big signing if need be, is nice, but too many anything over 2 seems to disrupt the camaraderie of the team, and I feel that is why NE was so successful over the years, they built mainly through the draft resigned their own players, that they deemed irreplaceable. And made smart veteran FA acquisitions, with few Superstar signings. That's why teams like the Vikes, Skins, Cowboys haven't been in superbowls lately. Too many Me-first FA signings, The key seems to be to draft your own impact players, and bring in role players, and leadership vets via FA and Trades.

Now someone is startin to get it...

[red]

i don't like the green thing

i don't like the way it was handled at all. and i think it sends a bad message

either TT lowballed him and he goes out and finds he can get a lot more. or TT told him to go find out what he is worth and we'll match it.

either way it puts us in a very bad spot. and nick barnett is sitting at home right now watching the free agent frenzy going on right now, and thinking to himself, next year i get to do that, and the cap will be a lot higher

he could now decide not to redo his deal, and wait it out ill next year.

then we're screwed

we would have lost our very good vet rb, and our pretty good vet MLB. and since TT does not want anything to do with free agency, we'll be left with nothing to replace them, but draft picks

then would we be better off, or worse then we were last year?

i would think worse. meaning we wouldn't be going in the right direction

this is what happens when you won't resign your top guys when you are suppose to. we could have taken care of barnett and green during the year. but now we will either have to shell out a lot more money for those two, or lose them

the green deal could be TT's 4th and 26 moment

[GrnBay007]

Ahman Green is just 45 yards short of an all time Packer record.

C'mon TT PAY the Packer faithful that have put their butt on the line for several years and have shown nothing but commitment to the team!! Green needs to retire as a Packer!!

Pay good players that deserve it!!