Green was OK at best last year

[wist43]

Forget the stats... look at the tapes. Green played extremely well last year - this definitely hurts the Packers.

If Favre had not returned, I probably wouldn't care much one way or the other...

But Favre did return; the defense (passive scheme notwithstanding) is significantly improved; and the hope is that the young guys on the line will improve enough to at least provide an average line.

Now, with all of those positives working for them, TT throws a monkey wrench in the works and leaves himself bankrupt at a critical position - and over what??? a couple of million bucks, when he's flush with cash???

After Favre retires, they're done... and even though the chances of them going very far this year weren't real good either - at least they have Favre, and Favre gives them "a punchers chance".

This definitely sets them back... the only vet back that might come available that could come close to Green would be Lamont Jordan, but as of now, he's still property of the Raiders.

Travis Henry has a shitty line and managed to outperform Green.

Green performed fine when he was on the field. Problem is he cannot be counted on to be on the field for 8 million dollars.

Also, how do you attribute the lack of big plays to the line when his back-up ran behind the same line and had a higher percentage of big plays? You say you work as a chemist, so how can you, a man of science, ignore such emperical evidence?

Apples and oranges... formations, down and distance. Hell, in obvious passing situations, even those lightweights on GB's line can create a hole or two.

Morency isn't half the back that Green is... yes, he's getting older, and he needs to be spelled; but, he's an every down bruiser, with very good speed. The Packers can't help but miss his steady production.

[Patler]

I didn't want to give Green $6 mil/yr... My recommended number was at $4 mil/yr... Had they offered him that, with a similar signing bonus, he'd still be a Packer.

Well the "word" is GB had offered a contract giving him $10 million over the first two years. The Texans deal gives him $13 million the first two years. The Packers wouldn't match it. They offered $5 million/yr over the life of the contract. Green wanted more, and got it. More power to him. He got more both short term and long term.

Its pretty clear that TT will not participate in bidding wars.

[wist43]

I didn't want to give Green $6 mil/yr... My recommended number was at $4 mil/yr... Had they offered him that, with a similar signing bonus, he'd still be a Packer.

Well the "word" is GB had offered a contract giving him $10 million over the first two years. The Texans deal gives him $13 million the first two years. The Packers wouldn't match it. They offered $5 million/yr over the life of the contract. Green wanted more, and got it. More power to him. He got more both short term and long term.

Its pretty clear that TT will not participate in bidding wars.

I hadn't seen that, if that's the case, I would argue that $10 mil over the first two years is a reasonable offer... have you heard how much of that was guarenteed???

At the end of the day, TT is in a bit of a spot now... Morency can't carry the load, Herron isn't an NFL calibur starter, there isn't much on the FA market right now, and there's no guarentee what they can come away with in a weak RB draft.

[ND72]

I'm gonna be the dick here and say we could be better off without Green. I LOVED Green, I really did. But he didn't hit the holes, or the cut backs like I was really expecting him to do so well last year in a zone system. a lot of people talked about Kubiak running the zones in Houston...what people don't realize is they are transitioning to doing the Kubiak zone system, but also runing some Sherman power run style, which Green was EXCELLENT in.

Yes, Morency, I really think, did a great job of finding the hole, and then turning to 5th gear into the hole, which is why I think he was injured as much as he was. One thing Morency did well, I think, is taking the backside cut. That means, if the zone is going left (towards clifton), he would essentially let everyone run past him, and then cut back behind where Tauscher would be. I think he really ran the zones very well.

[Partial]

seems to me that those stats also show the guys that are the youngest with the freshest legs get the most big runs which leads me to think with Morency it may be a mistake to take a high profile young cahnge of pace guy in the draft. We need a powerful steady bruiser that gets 2-5 yards every carry there are several of those guys out there for cheap. And what the hell Wist I am one of the few who share your hate for Barnett and your view he is average but you want to give 6 million a year to an aging average back?

I didn't want to give Green $6 mil/yr... My recommended number was at $4 mil/yr... Had they offered him that, with a similar signing bonus, he'd still be a Packer.

As everyone knows, the only number that matter is guarenteed money... $6 mil signing bonus - two productive years??? Even if he falls off the face of the earth after the 2nd year, you cut him after June 1st and he then only counts $1.5 against the next two caps.

Unless the Packers land someone like Lamont Jordan - who at this point would be at the top of my wish list - they're definitely going to rue the day the let Green walk - over what, $1.5 mil/yr???

I guess the bottom line is I hold Green in higher standing than most of you guys - damn good back.

That said, all bets are off for Greens production in Houston - terrible team, terrible organization.

4 Million.

[Partial]

I'm gonna be the dick here and say we could be better off without Green. I LOVED Green, I really did. But he didn't hit the holes, or the cut backs like I was really expecting him to do so well last year in a zone system. a lot of people talked about Kubiak running the zones in Houston...what people don't realize is they are transitioning to doing the Kubiak zone system, but also runing some Sherman power run style, which Green was EXCELLENT in.

Yes, Morency, I really think, did a great job of finding the hole, and then turning to 5th gear into the hole, which is why I think he was injured as much as he was. One thing Morency did well, I think, is taking the backside cut. That means, if the zone is going left (towards clifton), he would essentially let everyone run past him, and then cut back behind where Tauscher would be. I think he really ran the zones very well.

It appears Morency has very good vision and instincts. I think those things are probably going to be key in finding our next great runner here.

I am holding out for McFadden or Slaton or one of the many other great runners coming out next year.

[woodbuck27]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6530632

The Texans deal for Ahman Green considered one of the best in FA so far by this writer:

Thomas a perfect fit with Patriots

A wild three days of free agency are in the books.
Here's a breakdown of the good, the bad and Ashley Lelie.

Adalius Thomas to New England:

Frankly, it would be impossible for this deal to be any more perfect. Bill Belichick wants his players to be smart, versatile, hard workers both on the practice field and in the film room, good people, and consequently effective on game day.

That description fits the former Raven perfectly.

Thomas can stop the run, get to the quarterback and defend the tight end in coverage. Teaming him with the master of deception in Belichick will only make this star even better.

Give Robert Kraft credit for spending the money on a player who represents every single value stressed by the coaching staff and the core Patriots in the locker room, including the most important value of all, doing anything to win a championship.

Thomas proved that in Baltimore.


Five more we like

1. Eric Steinbach to Cleveland — Sure, it's a lot of money. But the Browns were desperate for help on the offensive line and Steinbach can play tackle, guard, and center, and do it all very well. And every Bengals player, ranging from Chad Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh to linemates Willie Anderson and Levi Jones, rave about him.

Somewhere you get the feeling Adrian Peterson is smiling.

2. Nate Clements to San Francisco — After Thomas, he was the best defensive player available. And it took an eight-year, $80 million contract to have Clements rollin' with Nolan. But it's worth it. Clements is a game-changing cornerback who locks down the premier receivers in the business, ranging from Marvin Harrison to Andre Johnson. This is the type of presence the Niners desperately needed at the back end of Nolan's defense.


3. London Fletcher to Washington — There are three guarantees in life: death, taxes and London Fletcher recording 100 or more tackles. Tackling proved to be a tough task for the Washington defense last year. Fletcher never got the proper due in Buffalo. Book it now — he finally makes the Pro Bowl as a Redskin this season.

4. Kris Dielman to San Diego — In training camp, we spent a lot of time with Dielman. The guard was telling us how much he loved San Diego — the restaurants, the water, attending Padres games, the way of life, the weather, and his teammates. We were very pleased to see a player take less money (Seattle was offering a key to the city) and remember those things during free agency. Dielman is a very good guard who did a great job last year.

5. Ahman Green to Houston —

He told us he had the Texans as one of his top choices and the Texans needed a veteran presence at running back. Green knows line coach Mike Sherman well from their days together in Green Bay and will enter camp healthier than he has been in years.

I know some feel the four-year, $23 million contact was too much, but I think it will pay dividends on the field and in the locker room this year.

Adam Schein hosts the Afternoon Blitz on Sirius NFL Radio with Solomon Wilcots and Jim Miller from 3-7 ET. Schein is the NFL insider for Sports Net New York. His "Scheintology" columns appear daily and his video NFL picks video reports appear every Friday on FOXSports.com. Email him at aschein@siriusradio.com

[HarveyWallbangers]

So much for Ted's plan of retaining his own players.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, there are lies, damn lies, and, with apologies to Patler, statistics. As much as I appreciate the insight that stats can bring, you would have to be out of your friggin mind to rate Green a declining back based on stats alone.

Our OL has been a trainwreck the last two years as far a run blocking. At the end of last year, they started to get it together, but prior to that the RBs were usually having coffee talk with 2 or 3 DL before they even hit the LOS. I saw Green make positive yardage out of absolute crap more times than I can count last year. Doesn't show up in the stats, but I know what I saw.

I'd agree that Green didn't hit the backside as much as he could have last year, but that's in some ways just the way he plays. He dosen't commonly hit a cut back until after he breaks the LOS. Green thinks like this -- first get 3, then look for the home run. Other backs think differently, but I prefer the guy who's going to keep the chains moving and who won't put me in bad down/distance situations.

You also have to factor in that Green was coming back from what has been for many players a career ending injury. My sense is that Green will be a more explosive and fit RB next year, when he has a year of solid training under his belt instead of rehab.

I for one am very sad to see him go. He was a great Packer who brought a toughness to the team that it has often lacked in recent years. Of course, that doesn't show up in stats either.

Well said, 2005 we had Adrian Klemm and Will Whitticker starting at OG. Last year, he had 3 rookies that started at least 10 games.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Travis Henry has a shitty line and managed to outperform Green.

What shitty line? Tennessee has three solid players on the interior OL with Benji Olson, Kevin Mawae, and Jacob Bell. LT Michael Roos is one of the better, young OT in the league. Not sure how good David Stewart is at RT, but for last year I would have taken their OL over our OL.

[Partial]

Bump for effort put into the research.

[LaFours]

Bump for effort put into the research.

Good work on the research. I echo your sentiments in the sense that I don't think the teams we played were that afraid of Ahman anymore. They no longer had to prioritize there defensive gameplan by stopping Ahman first, and then the passing game. Our running game last year was an afterthought and you can pin this on the o-line to some extent, but even with a middle-of-the-road o-line (which i would argue is what we lined up over the course of the year) a great back will shine. Ahman didn't do that consistently.

I think we should be asking our foes how scared they were of Ahman when we played them.

Rastak, any thoughts on the subject?

[Green Bud Packer]

Getting Favre to let go through discouragement.

If the forum members can't see that. Your in denial.

.

if i read this wrong i apologize.however if you're insinuating Thompson is trying to run Favre out of Green Bay you are an idiot.

[wist43]

Not sure what you guys are looking at...

I watched some of the first Detroit game last night, Green gained less than 20 yds in the 1st half - but in gaining that paltry total, he was a stud.

He was consistently being hit at, or behind, the LOS. He broke tackles to turn a loss into no gain, or no gain into a yard or two. Early in the 2nd half, he had 9 yd run where he was hit by two defenders after 1 yd, broke thru those tackles, ran another 4 yds, was hit by two more Lions, broke those two tackles, and was finally tripped up, falling forward for a total of a nine yd gain - that run set up a TD on the next play - a 4 yd pass to Driver.

He had a good game receiving... on a screen in the 1st half he took a pass in the flat, slipped a tackle right after turning up field, patiently waited to see where his blocking was going to wall off, and slipped up the sideline for a 15 yd gain - caught the ball easily, had beautiful timing, set his blocks up extremely well, and displayed good vision and patience.

His stats for the game said he stunk - in reality, he played great... make no mistake, the Packers are going to miss his physical presence.

[BooHoo]

Green is getting older but we can not forget the poor offensive line play last year as the new folks were learning their trade. The poor OL performance had to negatively impact Green's overall numbers.

If he stays healthy, he could have a very good year in Houston (who spent a lot of cash for him).