Perfect Match for WR issue

[Bretsky]

You are truly being a negative spinster for your own purposes on Green

One could argue, just as validly, that Green is one year out from a serious injury that had a great impact on his effectiveness last year. Yes, he has miles........BUT.....he's full strength now and there is every reason to believe that he would have been more effective this year than he was last year. Is he worth more then than Fred Taylor in the CURRENT market ? Overpays is a relative term that we choose to use to support an argument. if TT was choosing to make Ahman his best offer of 5MIL per year, once again he should do so BEFORE free agency. It is your opinion that is an overpiad deal, but if TT offered it he would disagree with you. Maybe you'd argue Taylor is better than Green, but I'd think at worst they are comparable.

Harvey went to great lengths so show how statistically Morency had a great advantage over A Green if you are going to cling to that yards per carry average to show he's capable so I'm not going back there again. Blind faith is the best reason to believe our backfield is just fine.

And if you are going to argue Morency is starter materials, you might as well throw Noah Herron in as well as starter material also.

Name a few backfields in the NFL that are as bad as Green Bay's right now. To say the cup is bare right now is very accurate

[MJZiggy]

Were you one of the guys who was complaining over the last couple games that Green kept having to come out of the game on crucial downs because he needed a rest? I loved the guy and wanted to keep him, but he's gone and I worked hard to get over that. I'm trying to look at him as objectively as possible...

[Bretsky]

Were you one of the guys who was complaining over the last couple games that Green kept having to come out of the game on crucial downs because he needed a rest? I loved the guy and wanted to keep him, but he's gone and I worked hard to get over that. I'm trying to look at him as objectively as possible...

Yes, I absolutely was complaining that Ahman Green came out too much. At times this messed up the flow of MM's playcalling.

All along I've been torn on the Green deal; but I don't but the overpaid theory these days because the market has changed, whether we went to believe it or not.

It's supply and demand. Lack of players and a rising cap is changing what a fair market deal is, and it will continue to get worse.

I'm not sure what was fair for Ahman Green; I'm not going to argue he was paid too much or not enough. I will argue the market has changed so much we are incapable of judging the current market.

But once Green left I want to see some effort as a backup plan in some sort. I don't see that, and that collectively ....along with the lack of effort by Green Bay is pursuing the better tier players....is what is frustrating to me.

[esoxx]

What's absurd is comparing Morencey to Ahman Green in his prime. Yeah, maybe Greg Jennings will be as good as Sterling Sharpe and Ruvell Martin will be the next James Lofton.

Hey, it easy and fun to rationalize. I feel better.

[falco]

What's absurd is comparing Morencey to Ahman Green in his prime. Yeah, maybe Greg Jennings will be as good as Sterling Sharpe and Ruvell Martin will be the next James Lofton.

Hey, it easy and fun to rationalize. I feel better.

Esoxx is absolutely right. Anyone willing to go alone with Ruvell Martin into a stairwell would be an idiot.

[esoxx]

Maybe Zac Alcorn could be the next Mark Chmura.

[retailguy]

Maybe Zac Alcorn could be the next Mark Chmura.

Maybe Vernand Morency can be the next Brent Fullwood. Maybe we can bring Terdell Middleton out of retirement. What happened to Bam Morris? Is he out of Jail yet?

I KNOW! I'VE GOT IT! RICKY WILLIAMS! Thats IT! THERE IS A PLAN!

Ricky Williams, Koren Robinson & Randy Moss!!!!!!!


Brighter days are ahead my friends!! :P

[gureski]

Who compared Morency to A.Green in his prime? I said there are similarities in how Green came to G.B. and ended up taking over for a popular Pro-Bowl HB (D.Levens) and right now where Morency is in position to have a shot to do the same.

The thing about Morency is that there is realistic potential there. It's not drummed up like the Gado thing (Of which I'm proud to say I wasn't part of that bandwagon). Morency is not a sure thing but he's a valid option. People aren't giving him enough credit for what he brings to the table. He's two years removed from being a third round draft pick and he's shown flashes of promise when in games. He's not a bust. How many of you same people that are saying Morency sucks would be giving up on an early third round draft pick after two seasons in two different offense's? I doubt any of you would. You'd be more patient. For some reason with Morency, people refuse to admit he has the potential to make this work.

I keep hearing how awful the RB situation is but in reality, if you'll consider Morency a valid option, you'd realize that the team is really only 1 RB signing or draft pick away from having the position solidified for next year. That's right. 1 back away from being no worse off then last year and quite possibly alot better.

ON the price thing..... you can say the market is set now and that the money Green got is not more then he is worth but that's all AFTER THE FACT. Hindsight is 20-20. You can say that in hind-sight that $5 million a year isn't too much for a back like Green. I'd disagree with you but it would'nt be far fetched to say that. What isn't fair is for you to infer that THompson should've overpaid PRIOR to knowing that the market for RB's was going to explode to the point that $5 million would look even close to being reasonable. Thompson didn't make a mistake. He refused to overpay based on what the market was at that time. E.James got $6 million a year last year from Arizona. A.Green got $5.75 million a year this year. Should Green get a deal near James when Green has so many high-risk issues surrounding him? Houston overpaid and it's fair to say that because of all the common sense factors surrounding A.Green tell you he isn't worthy of the deal he got! He's getting $8 million dollars this year! $8 million dollars on a RB that statistically, based on his age, history, and injury status, is going to start declining fast. YOu can argue that Green will beat the odds and stay productive but you can't argue that he'd be an exception to the rule when it comes to RB's in the NFL and you can't argue that he hasn't already been slowing down for the past 3 years.

If you are angry Green is gone then you wanted Thompson to OVERPAY. It's true because the money Green wanted (and finally got) is way more then he's worth. Teams overpay every year and it usually screws up the payscale and causes problems. It's a fact of the NFL. If you're GM doesn't take part in it that doesn't mean he's an idiot. He's just not following the crowd.

[retailguy]

If you are angry Green is gone then you wanted Thompson to OVERPAY. It's true because the money Green wanted (and finally got) is way more then he's worth. Teams overpay every year and it usually screws up the payscale and causes problems. It's a fact of the NFL. If you're GM doesn't take part in it that doesn't mean he's an idiot. He's just not following the crowd.

BULL, with a capital B. What I'm about to say about Green applies to almost ALL free agents.

The MARKET sets the price for free agents. THE MARKET, not HOW YOU OR I FEEL.

Houston had to pay more for Green than Green Bay did, or HE WOULDN'T HAVE WENT TO HOUSTON.

That's the point Guerski. Feel it. Embrace it. SEE it. Has nothing to do with how "SMART" Thompson is. The MARKET dictated the price ONLY TO THE EXTENT that Thompson wouldn't have matched it.

Had Thompson agreed to match 8mil, Houston would have had to pay 10mil. I can't believe you can't see how this works.

Once Ahman got to free agency, IT WAS OVER. IT WAS OVER MARCH 2nd.

Thompson's MISTAKE was letting it get to that point. PERIOD.

Ahman's WORTH was dictated by the market. By that definition, he was WORTH 8mil. Whether you agree with it or not...

[gureski]

If you are angry Green is gone then you wanted Thompson to OVERPAY. It's true because the money Green wanted (and finally got) is way more then he's worth. Teams overpay every year and it usually screws up the payscale and causes problems. It's a fact of the NFL. If you're GM doesn't take part in it that doesn't mean he's an idiot. He's just not following the crowd.

BULL, with a capital B. What I'm about to say about Green applies to almost ALL free agents.

The MARKET sets the price for free agents. THE MARKET, not HOW YOU OR I FEEL.

Houston had to pay more for Green than Green Bay did, or HE WOULDN'T HAVE WENT TO HOUSTON.

That's the point Guerski. Feel it. Embrace it. SEE it. Has nothing to do with how "SMART" Thompson is. The MARKET dictated the price ONLY TO THE EXTENT that Thompson wouldn't have matched it.

Had Thompson agreed to match 8mil, Houston would have had to pay 10mil. I can't believe you can't see how this works.

Once Ahman got to free agency, IT WAS OVER. IT WAS OVER MARCH 2nd.

Thompson's MISTAKE was letting it get to that point. PERIOD.

Ahman's WORTH was dictated by the market. By that definition, he was WORTH 8mil. Whether you agree with it or not...

You are leading the charge to be ridiculous and I imagine you're loving the support you're getting right now.

Tell me something....

If you and I go to a Mexican restaurant and each of us wants the same thing....say a taco... and that taco costs 99 cents. BUT.. there is only one taco shell sitting there that you and I can see and I jump forward and say I'll pay $20.00 for that taco! The attendant gives me the Taco and takes the $20.00 before turning to you and selling you a soft shell taco for 99 cents. Are the hard shell tacos worth $20.00 now because I bought one for $20.00? Are you an idiot because you didn't offer the cashier $10.00 for the taco before I offerred $20.00? I mean, I'm sure they'd have given you the taco for $10.00 if you'd have just offerred to pay more then the asking price before I offerred $20.00. OR, are you smart because you got a taco for $19.01 cheaper then the one I got and they're basically the same?

The fact is that just because someone is willing to overpay for a product doesn't mean that's the new market value of that item. The item is still worth what it was originally. The restaurant just found a sucker to overpay. They may think about adjusting their price after this but in reality, they know there wont be many takers for $20.00 tacos. In this example, someone just flat-out overpaid.

In the NFL, player value is subjective. Each team values different traits. Each team is at different levels of success and have different needs. How does A.Green get $5.75 million a year over 4 years while J.Lewis can only get a single year deal for $3.5 million? The beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Like the 99 cent taco, Green had a value assigned to him before he ever hit free agency. You can look at past payment history of RB's like Green and project what a player's value is based on multiple factors. Based on Green's factors (athletic ability, history, injury, age,) he had a certain value going into free agency and it wasn't $5.75 million a year. The biggest shock-wave of free agency thus far was Green getting that deal from Houston. He WAS overpaid. Now that Green has his money, the way you view the market shifts but it doesn't shift til AFTER Green got paid. That's how hit works. It wasn't a mistake by Thompson and Green WAS overpaid.

[wist43]

Plain and simple - Morency IS NOT an every down starter in the NFL.

Where Green would lower his should and get the tough yd on 3rd and 1, Morency is a dancer who gets caught for a loss.

Morency is a nice 3rd down back, but he's simply not big enough, or tough enough... his style is that of a slasher who goes down too easily. He cannot be counted on, down in and down out, to be an every down back.

He is what he is - a 3rd down back.

[Brando19]

Maybe Zac Alcorn could be the next Mark Chmura.

Maybe Vernand Morency can be the next Brent Fullwood. Maybe we can bring Terdell Middleton out of retirement. What happened to Bam Morris? Is he out of Jail yet?

I KNOW! I'VE GOT IT! RICKY WILLIAMS! Thats IT! THERE IS A PLAN!

Ricky Williams, Koren Robinson & Randy Moss!!!!!!!


Brighter days are ahead my friends!! :P

How about Pacman Jones and Chris Henry???? Yessssssssss

[retailguy]

You are leading the charge to be ridiculous and I imagine you're loving the support you're getting right now.

Tell me something....

If you and I go to a Mexican restaurant and each of us wants the same thing....say a taco... and that taco costs 99 cents. BUT.. there is only one taco shell sitting there that you and I can see and I jump forward and say I'll pay $20.00 for that taco! The attendant gives me the Taco and takes the $20.00 before turning to you and selling you a soft shell taco for 99 cents. Are the hard shell tacos worth $20.00 now because I bought one for $20.00? Are you an idiot because you didn't offer the cashier $10.00 for the taco before I offerred $20.00? I mean, I'm sure they'd have given you the taco for $10.00 if you'd have just offerred to pay more then the asking price before I offerred $20.00. OR, are you smart because you got a taco for $19.01 cheaper then the one I got and they're basically the same?

The fact is that just because someone is willing to overpay for a product doesn't mean that's the new market value of that item. The item is still worth what it was originally. The restaurant just found a sucker to overpay. They may think about adjusting their price after this but in reality, they know there wont be many takers for $20.00 tacos. In this example, someone just flat-out overpaid.

In the NFL, player value is subjective. Each team values different traits. Each team is at different levels of success and have different needs. How does A.Green get $5.75 million a year over 4 years while J.Lewis can only get a single year deal for $3.5 million? The beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Like the 99 cent taco, Green had a value assigned to him before he ever hit free agency. You can look at past payment history of RB's like Green and project what a player's value is based on multiple factors. Based on Green's factors (athletic ability, history, injury, age,) he had a certain value going into free agency and it wasn't $5.75 million a year. The biggest shock-wave of free agency thus far was Green getting that deal from Houston. He WAS overpaid. Now that Green has his money, the way you view the market shifts but it doesn't shift til AFTER Green got paid. That's how hit works. It wasn't a mistake by Thompson and Green WAS overpaid.

Man. You've claimed I'm NEGATIVE, now you claim I'm RIDICULOUS. I didn't realize that you had the monopoly on being "right".

I'm not negative and I'm not ridiculous. The fact that I disagree with Thompsons approach doesn't make me wrong, it makes me different than he is.

Your $20 taco analysis is FLAWED. Tacos are a consumable item, and once consumed have ZERO VALUE. Ahman Green is a commodity, and his value increases and decreases based on PRODUCTION.

After Houston "consumes" Ahman Green, he'll still have intrinsic value, either higher or lower, but still have value as a football player. When that value falls below the veteran minimum, he'll retire.

The fact that you don't understand this makes your viewpoint, flawed, and in my opinion irrelevant.

You also fail to acknowledge the principle of SUPPLY AND DEMAND. Houston took an "educated" risk. They MAY get a good REWARD even if they overpaid.

We can't establish today that they overpaid, we can only establish that they were willing to pay more than anyone else.

Relating to your ridiculous taco example, the only thing your analysis proved is that you were willing to pay more for that taco than I was. You didn't prove the value of a taco. You only proved the value of the taco, TO YOU.

I might have been willing to pay $19.00 for the taco, I might not have been willing to spend .99 for the taco if I wasn't hungry, or if I didn't LIKE tacos. The fact I didn't spend doesn't mean ANYTHING, other than I didn't buy it.

[MJZiggy]

Maybe TT doesn't like the selection of tacos this FA season...

[Bretsky]

Maybe TT doesn't like the selection of tacos this FA season...

He's fasting