Five worst (Overpaid and overrated) FA signings

[woodbuck27]

Note: Ahman Green was NOT on this list

Careful.... They'll brand you as a negative Thompson hater... OBVIOUSLY it was a bad, bad, deal.

Nevermind that he came back from a career ending injury, and has NEVER reported out of shape.

But, those things, can't stop the belief that he's "over the hill" even though those things were pointed to in NOVEMBER.

Guess he went "over the hill" at Christmas.

No. . .no no.

We read it. TT and M3 very much wanted Ahman back.

For another one year contract.

[BooHoo]

It's tough to promote "thread management".

When the topic is hot, lot's of people start new ones.

It's annoyng, but at least it's activity.

Hot news, sells. We need something this time of year to read.

[GBRulz]

It's tough to promote "thread management".

When the topic is hot, lot's of people start new ones.

It's annoyng, but at least it's activity.

Hot news, sells. We need something this time of year to read.

Yes, one can only read so many mock drafts! Well, ok some of you can't get enough

[gureski]

Note: Ahman Green was NOT on this list

Careful.... They'll brand you as a negative Thompson hater... OBVIOUSLY it was a bad, bad, deal.

Nevermind that he came back from a career ending injury, and has NEVER reported out of shape.

But, those things, can't stop the belief that he's "over the hill" even though those things were pointed to in NOVEMBER.

Guess he went "over the hill" at Christmas.

Retailguy,

V.Shiancoe isn't on the list either and he's quite possibly the most mind-boggling signing that has taken place. This isn't exactly THE universally recognized list of most ridiculous contracts. It's one person's opinion.

Can we agree on some base facts?

You have dug in and hunkered down on the A.Green issue so deeply that it's hard to find anything that we can see eye-to-eye on to use as the starting point to a rational debate. It's leaking into every post you make because you can't come to an understanding with many others on Green. When I tried to engage you on the topic in the past you moved the debate away from the real-life/common sense setting into a more academic economic definition of 'overpaid' debate. I think I can break this impasse. I'm interested in having a debate with you on the Green issue but first we have to agree to certain facts as a starting point.

Can we agree to admit the following as general facts that relate to all players and organizations? (not Green and the Packers specifically)

1. Based on past NFL history and statistics, RB's become 'over-the-hill' once they reach the age of 30?

2. Not all starting calibur RB's hit a big decline at age 30 but the statistics show an overwhelming number do see a drastic drop in productivity and an increase in injury. It's not impossible for a starting calibur RB to be successful once they reach the age of 30 but it's an exception to the rule when it happens.

3. Injury history is one of the primary factors looked at when signing players and assessing their value. It's normally directly related to compensation.

4. Age is one of the primary factors looked at when signing players and assessing their value.

5. Current and past performance is a primary factor looked at when signing players and assessing their value.

6. Each team in the NFL MUST stay under the salary cap each year.

7. Contracts and salaries do not occur in a bubble. That is to say that others are affected by new contracts and new salaries. There is a ripple effect that happens every time an organization signs a player. Every new contract and every new salary has an effect on the balance of current and future contracts and current and future salaries on the team. Some ripples are big and others are small but they are there just the same and each team can cause ripples on other teams roster's based on the contracts and salaries they hand out.

Can we agree that these 7 points above are true and apply to all organizations and players? I'm just looking for a base that we can agree upon prior to getting into the specifics of A.Green and the Packers. The items listed above seem to be very basic things that every team and player face. The items listed above can be proven using basic NFL statistics and team/player history. I don't think there is anything I wrote that is controversial. It's very basic.

Are there any of the 7 items I list that you disagree with?

[Scott Campbell]

He will accept your terms on one condition - you proclaim your undying love for Mike Sherman.

[mngolf19]

Note: Ahman Green was NOT on this list

Careful.... They'll brand you as a negative Thompson hater... OBVIOUSLY it was a bad, bad, deal.

Nevermind that he came back from a career ending injury, and has NEVER reported out of shape.

But, those things, can't stop the belief that he's "over the hill" even though those things were pointed to in NOVEMBER.

Guess he went "over the hill" at Christmas.

Retailguy,

V.Shiancoe isn't on the list either and he's quite possibly the most mind-boggling signing that has taken place. This isn't exactly THE universally recognized list of most ridiculous contracts. It's one person's opinion.

The above is also one person's opinion.

[gureski]

Note: Ahman Green was NOT on this list

Careful.... They'll brand you as a negative Thompson hater... OBVIOUSLY it was a bad, bad, deal.

Nevermind that he came back from a career ending injury, and has NEVER reported out of shape.

But, those things, can't stop the belief that he's "over the hill" even though those things were pointed to in NOVEMBER.

Guess he went "over the hill" at Christmas.

Retailguy,

V.Shiancoe isn't on the list either and he's quite possibly the most mind-boggling signing that has taken place. This isn't exactly THE universally recognized list of most ridiculous contracts. It's one person's opinion.

The above is also one person's opinion.

I'm sorry. Maybe my paitence is wearing thin right now but what is the point of your post?

Is the point of your post to state that the original list in the thread IS the Universally recognized list of most ridiculous contracts?

I said Shiancoe is 'quite possibly' the most mindboggling signing of the off-season. I said the list that was part of the original post is one person's opinion of the Top 5. Both of those are facts. It IS possible that Shiancoe's deal was the most mindboggilng deal of this year's free agency. It's possible and that's all I said. Are you disputing that fact?

It's fact that the list we were discussing was one person's opinion and not representive of Universal opinion. Do you dispute that fact?

If I didn't say anything that wasnt' factually based then why post and say it's only my opinion?

Again, maybe my patience is wearing thin but I'm not in the mood for the 'that's just your opinion' game today. There are some things that are fact and can be proven. There are things that are true that we can agree upon. Every statement isn't merely an opinion. 2 plus 2 equals 4. You can check it. It's true.

Find someone else to put in their place because my house is in order and I'm not in the mood to play today.

[retailguy]

Retailguy,

V.Shiancoe isn't on the list either and he's quite possibly the most mind-boggling signing that has taken place. This isn't exactly THE universally recognized list of most ridiculous contracts. It's one person's opinion.

The above is also one person's opinion.

Touche' MN. Touche'. This has been my gripe for weeks. His/other info are FACTS, and all I've got are "NEGATIVE OPINIONS". Can't see the double standard..., yet preaches that I can't see the double standard. Kind of funny, really.

Debate and discussion are IMPOSSIBLE in this framework.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Actually, I find Bobby Wade's signing the most mind-boggling, but that's just my opinion. With Shiancoe they took a chance on a young guy, like Thompson did with Frank Walker, so it may work out--even though I THINK they paid too much for him.

[retailguy]

Find someone else to put in their place because my house is in order and I'm not in the mood to play today.

And you tell me I'm negative and hard to get along with?

Dude, look in the mirror.

[gureski]

Retailguy,

V.Shiancoe isn't on the list either and he's quite possibly the most mind-boggling signing that has taken place. This isn't exactly THE universally recognized list of most ridiculous contracts. It's one person's opinion.

The above is also one person's opinion.

Touche' MN. Touche'. This has been my gripe for weeks. His/other info are FACTS, and all I've got are "NEGATIVE OPINIONS". Can't see the double standard..., yet preaches that I can't see the double standard. Kind of funny, really.

Debate and discussion are IMPOSSIBLE in this framework.

Better start re-reading because the individual you are patting on the back was incorrect in their statement. As I pointed out, the items I listed above were factual. It IS factually possible that Shiancoe's deal was the most mindboggling deal of the off-season. It IS FACTUAL for me to say that the list that started this thread is one person's opinion.

You can delight in having someone take a shot at me but that doesn't change the fact that I was correct in what I said.

What I'd like to know is whether you can engage on this debate or if you're set on crying that everyone is mistreating you? I'm making an honest effort to bridge this gap with you and have a fair conversation. If all you're interested in is being a victim then say so and I'll spend my time and effort in places where it's better served.

[retailguy]

Actually, I find Bobby Wade's signing the most mind-boggling, but that's just my opinion. With Shiancoe they took a chance on a young guy, like Thompson did with Frank Walker, so it may work out--even though I THINK they paid too much for him.

Signing free agents is really the same thing as drafting, it's all about leveraged risk. Does that player fit the system? Does that player fit the system/requirements better than the other available players? What's the liklihood that it'll work out?

Can we handle the contract? If we can't, what's the downside? If we can, what's the downside?

With a free agent, you've got a bit more data in some cases to answer the questions, that's one reason the contracts are higher - The commodity is more proven in the environment.

This sums it up for me on Green. What's the downside, can we handle it, and if we can't, what's the backup plan? The backup plan seems to be missing. Maybe it'll appear in the future, but maybe IT WON'T.

It won't worries me. A Lot.

[retailguy]

Better start re-reading because the individual you are patting on the back was incorrect in their statement. As I pointed out,

It would seem that this is an opinion as well.... Guerski just because you believe it to be a "fact" doesn't mean it is one.

Patler astutely pointed out in another thread that "EVERYTHING" regarding free agency is subject to future debate... this would include YOUR points as well as mine.

Move on to someone else. When you compared Ahman Green's value to a Taco, you lost me. My resistence to debate you has nothing to do with playing the "victim". It has everything to do with your absolute insistence that the only way is YOUR way.

That's not a debate. That's arguing with a fence post. I'll pass. Thanks.

[Fritz]

Re: Five worst (Overpaid and overrated) FA signings

Millen needs to be fired before he hurts himself. Derrick Dockery got Hutch money? That could be bad, even Hutch couldn't earn Hutch money! What if TT did any of these deals?

The word on the street, the anonoymous neighbor told me, is that Marinelli has been given quite a bit of say on building his roster this year. So he and Martz are driving the shopping cart.

He dumped the DE and signed the Tampa dude because of scheme considerations. He will probably find out that scheme and no talent yield the same results as talent and no scheme.

One of the Detroit papers had an article on Marinelli's new personnel influence. It's clear that Marinelli has a really strong Jones for try-hard marine guys, which is fine except it seems to drive him to players who are dedicated but not necessarily above-average in talent. I think that Matt Millen's new "plan" - ah, hell, let's see if Marinelli's tough-guy approach might work - will, as you suggest, fall short. If they follow through and draft Joe Thomas instead of Calvin Johnson, then we know teh Lions are surely, still and again, doomed.

As for the Ahman Green part of the debate, no, he's not on the list of worst five, and he's probably not, but that doesn't make it a smart move on the Texans' part. Guess we'll know better after the end of the 08 season.

[gureski]

Actually, I find Bobby Wade's signing the most mind-boggling, but that's just my opinion. With Shiancoe they took a chance on a young guy, like Thompson did with Frank Walker, so it may work out--even though I THINK they paid too much for him.

Signing free agents is really the same thing as drafting, it's all about leveraged risk. Does that player fit the system? Does that player fit the system/requirements better than the other available players? What's the liklihood that it'll work out?

Can we handle the contract? If we can't, what's the downside? If we can, what's the downside?

With a free agent, you've got a bit more data in some cases to answer the questions, that's one reason the contracts are higher - The commodity is more proven in the environment.

This sums it up for me on Green. What's the downside, can we handle it, and if we can't, what's the backup plan? The backup plan seems to be missing. Maybe it'll appear in the future, but maybe IT WON'T.

It won't worries me. A Lot.

Funny how it seems you can find some things that you are willing to agree to with regards to free agency when it pleases you? If you can make these statements then why can't you simply sit down with me and come to a mutual agreement on a set of points that we both agree upon?