Most Disgusting offseason/draft in recent memory

[gureski]

Here's what I have to say after this weekend:

1. I was listening to draft coverage on multiple radio stations while doing yard work this weekend and kept hearing over and over how Harrell wasn't on the short list of the people commentating. I kept hearing how the hosts and the people calling the shows saying how Thompson reached and paniced and reacted because THEY didn't know Harrell. One host actually called the pick one of the biggest reaches of all-time saying, "nobody amongst us or here at NAME OF BAR had Harrell on their short-list. Harrell wasn't on anyone's short-list here. It's absolutely a reach."

I heard that and just shook my head. I guess Thompson's real mistake was not knowing that all the REAL experts were at this crappy sports bar, huh? Give me a damn break. Because a player isn't on the short list of a radio show host or the fans, then that means that player was a reach? That's just ridiculous and it shows the assenine fanaticism that some people portray in their mentality. Sure, Thompson and all the scouts are bumbling idiots because the player they picked wasn't on the short-list of a bunch of idiot radio show hosts and their no-life fans that followed them to a dingy bar to play pretend-expert for a few hours on a Saturday afternoon. And I do not rip all people who may have gone to a sports bar to take in a draft day party. Just the people that followed this particular moronic group of idiots.

2. Trading requires two sides. I love the guys that complain that Thompson should've made a trade. Up, down, both....he should've tried to trade the pick or he should've traded the pick. HOW DO YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T TRY? All comments I've heard is that he tried to trade up AND he tried to trade down but didn't get anyone that was willing to be the other side of a deal! Word is, from multiple sources, that Thompson made the push for Moss but that Moss ended up screwing that up. Thompson did what he could. You don't give picks away. His trading down in the 2nd round and picking up an extra 3d was fantastic.

[ahaha]

I think Thompson drafted for need a little more than some realize.

- What are the keys to our Bates-like defense? Good fast linebackers and having big beefy DT's to clog up the middle.
- Jackson's strengths are classic for a ZBS runner: quick decisive cuts, runs well in traffic, and great at the cutback.
-And, the OT we got is super-athletic. ZBS guy all the way. Fast enough to be a gunner in college.
-We got two recievers. They're is going to be some heated competition for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th recievers spot. Competition is good here, look what happened for New Orleans last year.
-The LB/FB projects to be a special teams demon.
-Kicker could help us immmediately.

[RIPackerFan]

Great Post - ahaha.

I think you are completely right. When they drafted the DT - I thought the very thought you mentioned. Also, the RB is perfect for the ZBS.

I even think that even if Lynch was available, we would not have taken him - prefering this guy in the later run (more of a proto-typical ZBS back).

I am pissed that we didn't get Moss and I know Favre is too. I am hoping he uses his anger on the field.

[Lurker64]

The encouraging thing about the fact that Denver was targetting Harrell is the fact that we're still running a Bates defense, and Jim Bates was brought in to be the architect of the Denver defense in the offseason. So the guy is almost certainly a good fit for the scheme, and if Bates wanted him I probably want him too.

(I'd also like Jim Bates back)

[swede]

Here's what I have to say after this weekend:

1. I was listening to draft coverage on multiple radio stations while doing yard work this weekend and kept hearing over and over how Harrell wasn't on the short list of the people commentating. I kept hearing how the hosts and the people calling the shows saying how Thompson reached and paniced and reacted because THEY didn't know Harrell. One host actually called the pick one of the biggest reaches of all-time saying, "nobody amongst us or here at NAME OF BAR had Harrell on their short-list. Harrell wasn't on anyone's short-list here. It's absolutely a reach."

I heard that and just shook my head. I guess Thompson's real mistake was not knowing that all the REAL experts were at this crappy sports bar, huh? Give me a damn break. Because a player isn't on the short list of a radio show host or the fans, then that means that player was a reach? That's just ridiculous and it shows the assenine fanaticism that some people portray in their mentality. Sure, Thompson and all the scouts are bumbling idiots because the player they picked wasn't on the short-list of a bunch of idiot radio show hosts and their no-life fans that followed them to a dingy bar to play pretend-expert for a few hours on a Saturday afternoon. And I do not rip all people who may have gone to a sports bar to take in a draft day party. Just the people that followed this particular moronic group of idiots.

2. Trading requires two sides. I love the guys that complain that Thompson should've made a trade. Up, down, both....he should've tried to trade the pick or he should've traded the pick. HOW DO YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T TRY? All comments I've heard is that he tried to trade up AND he tried to trade down but didn't get anyone that was willing to be the other side of a deal! Word is, from multiple sources, that Thompson made the push for Moss but that Moss ended up screwing that up. Thompson did what he could. You don't give picks away. His trading down in the 2nd round and picking up an extra 3d was fantastic.

You see, Gureski, this post is why I am one of your biggest fans. Well spoken, sir. I felt the same way about some of the critics. I scratched my head and said WTF a number of times myself, but I don't know more than TT.

[MasonCrosby]

i agree with those that have the wait and see mentality. i remember a huge fuss last year over the whole vernon davis vs. aj hawk selection with the 5th pick. people said that TT was trying to push favre out by not taking davis. well then davis got hurt and hawk certainly showed us why TT picked him for defense. so i guess that debate is pretty much closed at this point...

[gureski]

Another thing that I forgot to mention to those that are eyeing up the windows on the higher floors in their office.....

Do you realize that Thompson has four all-rookie selections to his credit after only 2 drafts?

Nick Collins, A.J. Hawk, Daryn Colledge, and Greg Jennings.

For those that need help with the math, 11 players are on offense and 11 players are on defense for every team. That means that position-wise, only 22 players a year can make the All-Rookie team. In two years at the helm, Thompson has been recognized as having 4 of the top 44 players picked over the past two years (at their positions).

Why is that impressive?

First, there are 32 teams in the NFL. As stated already, there are 22 All-Rookie spots open every year for position players. Your draft picks have to perform at a level of which they'll be noticed in order to make the All-Rookie team. Four times in two years, Thompson's draft picks have panned out to the tune of All-Rookie.

Second, even Ron Wolf never had three All-Rookie selections. Wolf maxed out with two in 1993 with George Teague and Wayne Simmons. Thompson just had 3 selected to the All-Rookie team last year.

And finally, Thompson's draft picks have proven to be contributing factors. Last year, according to a Bob McGinn article that can be found at:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=553299

The Packers led the league with rookie every game starters and rookie starts overall.

Thompson and his advisors know how to draft. They've earned your trust when it comes to the draft. It's been sickening to listen to radio show hosts and other misinformed or otherwise free-agent induced angry fans rip Thompson's draft because he didn't run out and draft players in positions where they felt Thompson should've. Are any of those people really basing their opinion on the actual talent of the players they wanted/Thompson passed on, or was this what I believe it to be, a case of fans who merely wanted need picks because common sense tells them things like, we need a TE and the top TE is there so......go get him. Shouldn't it matter what the talent of that player was before you get pissed that the team didn't pick him? Shouldn't it matter what the depth was in the draft at that position before you start ripping Thompson?


I know from my own research on this years players that there is a common thread to almost all of Thompson's picks and that common theme is each of these guys were under the radar a little. You read about their production and their athletic ability and every scout I've read has made some form of comment that states the player has real upside and was pushed down the board a bit due to various circumstances. These guys are talented players that Thompson just picked up but some people don't want to hear that because they don't know the players. These guys weren't media favorites. To that, I say go back and re-live the Jennings pick from last year. How many people were furious over losing out on Jackson to NE and how many said, Jennings who? No reason to think some of this years picks can't turn out the same way. No reason not to believe that a couple of the guys people are pissed about right now wont turn those frowns upside down come the regular season. Bet on it.

[Patler]

Gureski;

I agree with the gist of your post about the all-rookie teams, but some of it also has to do with how bad the team has been . To make the all-rookie team a player has to play. On good teams very few rookies play. They come on their second, third or fourth years to really start contributing. For the Packers the last couple years there are many opportunities for rookies to play right away. Ideally you would hope one of your rookies at most would have to play enough to be considered as a rookie.

The key for TT's success as a drafter will be how many of these "all rookie" guys or others of the starters remain starters 5 years later, or if they have been replaced by yet newer "all rookie" players.

It would be more interesting actually to see an "all sophmore" team, or an "all third-year" team. Those would better indicate true drafting prowess.

[Packnut]

Rookies

Another thing that I forgot to mention to those that are eyeing up the windows on the higher floors in their office.....

Do you realize that Thompson has four all-rookie selections to his credit after only 2 drafts?

Nick Collins, A.J. Hawk, Daryn Colledge, and Greg Jennings.

For those that need help with the math, 11 players are on offense and 11 players are on defense for every team. That means that position-wise, only 22 players a year can make the All-Rookie team. In two years at the helm, Thompson has been recognized as having 4 of the top 44 players picked over the past two years (at their positions).

Why is that impressive?


Since there are quite a lot of teams who don't start rookies, your post makes no sense. Also, bad teams get better picks and have to start rookies. Since they get better picks, if the scouting dept and GM do their home work the rookies should be good.

It's hilarious here. First the TT backers say you can't judge yesterdays draft for a few years yet they also brag about last years draft and how it was so great. All-rookie team means nothing. Collins was a total disaster for 3/4 of last season. Jennings was MIA after the first 8 or 9 games. Spitz and Colledge showed promise but everyone agrees they need to get stronger in order to be effective. Drinking kool-aid is all fine and dandy and so is having a postive attitude about the team, but let's get the facts and reasons straight........

First, there are 32 teams in the NFL. As stated already, there are 22 All-Rookie spots open every year for position players. Your draft picks have to perform at a level of which they'll be noticed in order to make the All-Rookie team. Four times in two years, Thompson's draft picks have panned out to the tune of All-Rookie.

Second, even Ron Wolf never had three All-Rookie selections. Wolf maxed out with two in 1993 with George Teague and Wayne Simmons. Thompson just had 3 selected to the All-Rookie team last year.

And finally, Thompson's draft picks have proven to be contributing factors. Last year, according to a Bob McGinn article that can be found at:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=553299

The Packers led the league with rookie every game starters and rookie starts overall.

Thompson and his advisors know how to draft. They've earned your trust when it comes to the draft. It's been sickening to listen to radio show hosts and other misinformed or otherwise free-agent induced angry fans rip Thompson's draft because he didn't run out and draft players in positions where they felt Thompson should've. Are any of those people really basing their opinion on the actual talent of the players they wanted/Thompson passed on, or was this what I believe it to be, a case of fans who merely wanted need picks because common sense tells them things like, we need a TE and the top TE is there so......go get him. Shouldn't it matter what the talent of that player was before you get pissed that the team didn't pick him? Shouldn't it matter what the depth was in the draft at that position before you start ripping Thompson?


I know from my own research on this years players that there is a common thread to almost all of Thompson's picks and that common theme is each of these guys were under the radar a little. You read about their production and their athletic ability and every scout I've read has made some form of comment that states the player has real upside and was pushed down the board a bit due to various circumstances. These guys are talented players that Thompson just picked up but some people don't want to hear that because they don't know the players. These guys weren't media favorites. To that, I say go back and re-live the Jennings pick from last year. How many people were furious over losing out on Jackson to NE and how many said, Jennings who? No reason to think some of this years picks can't turn out the same way. No reason not to believe that a couple of the guys people are pissed about right now wont turn those frowns upside down come the regular season. Bet on it.

[green_bowl_packer]

The encouraging thing about the fact that Denver was targetting Harrell is the fact that we're still running a Bates defense, and Jim Bates was brought in to be the architect of the Denver defense in the offseason. So the guy is almost certainly a good fit for the scheme, and if Bates wanted him I probably want him too.

(I'd also like Jim Bates back)

Evidently not the only one, I have no idea why this was on there at the end of day two. But nice shot of Clowney smoking Leon Hall at the Senior Bowl.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=349&videoID=1801&type=broncosTV&year=&month=

[gureski]

Gureski;

I agree with the gist of your post about the all-rookie teams, but some of it also has to do with how bad the team has been . To make the all-rookie team a player has to play. On good teams very few rookies play. They come on their second, third or fourth years to really start contributing. For the Packers the last couple years there are many opportunities for rookies to play right away. Ideally you would hope one of your rookies at most would have to play enough to be considered as a rookie.

The key for TT's success as a drafter will be how many of these "all rookie" guys or others of the starters remain starters 5 years later, or if they have been replaced by yet newer "all rookie" players.

It would be more interesting actually to see an "all sophmore" team, or an "all third-year" team. Those would better indicate true drafting prowess.

The two things that are worth mentioning are:

1. During Sherman's tenure, we had needs and Sherman drafted for needs yet the players he drafted were never able to step in and help the way Thompson's picks are helping. I used to always say to the Sherman-GM supporters that it made no sense why Sherman and his coaching staff could get the Wolf picks ready to play and contribute right away but not many to any of Sherman's picks. Seeing Thompson's picks step up rather quickly and contribute only enforces the point I used to make that it was the calibur of the player drafted, not the coaching that made all the difference. Sure, there are more opportunities because of the state of the team but Sherman's picks, in many instances, didn't even get on the field except for special teams. Thompson's picks are not only good enough to hit the field, they are capable of contributing in the NFL during their rookie years. That reminds me of the kinds of players Ron Wolf used to draft. That's the positive to keep in mind. Yeah, the situation creates openings but not every rookie can step in and fill that bill, even when handed the job.

2. The 4 All Rookie picks are still impressive in that Thompson started with more then what Wolf had to work with and Wolf never had 3 All-Rookie picks in one year. If you go back to the first Wolf-Holmgren years, they turned that roster over like crazy. All spots were open and there were more opportunities for young guys to play and contribute. Thompson's situation, thanks to Wolf's drafting years earlier, was not nearly as bad as Wolf's was so Wolf actually would've had even more spots open for rookies to compete because the teams he took over were worse. That impresses me. Maybe it shouldn't but to top anything Ron Wolf did is one hell of an accomplishment, in my eyes. I don't care if it's eating hot dogs....If Wolf did something impressive and Thompson can top it, that says something to me.

[Patler]

Not sure I agree with your second point. TT has turned over this roster pretty agressively, and the Packers had a few fairly decent drafts before Wolf came on the scene. Bennett, Butler, Jackie Harris, Paup, Jacke, Sharpe, Chuck Cecil, Johnnie Holland, Noble, Ruttgers, Moran and others were there to build on. TT inherited a few younger guys like Wells, Kampman, Barnett and Walker and a few older guys like Driver, Harris Clifton and Tauscher, and a few who's careers were winding down and needed to be replaced soon like Favre, Green, etc. Wolf inherited quite a few ascending players, TT inherited only a couple.

[swede]

Evidently not the only one, I have no idea why this was on there at the end of day two. But nice shot of Clowney smoking Leon Hall at the Senior Bowl.

http://www.denverbroncos.com?page.ph...V&year=&month=

Check out that vid! Clowney has an intriguing ability to shake his hips and turn around defenders. Wow.

[Charles Woodson]

Another thing that I forgot to mention to those that are eyeing up the windows on the higher floors in their office.....

Do you realize that Thompson has four all-rookie selections to his credit after only 2 drafts?

Nick Collins, A.J. Hawk, Daryn Colledge, and Greg Jennings.

For those that need help with the math, 11 players are on offense and 11 players are on defense for every team. That means that position-wise, only 22 players a year can make the All-Rookie team. In two years at the helm, Thompson has been recognized as having 4 of the top 44 players picked over the past two years (at their positions).

.

Okay so im not neccesarily complaning but if memory serves me correct then between those 2 drafts we had a total of 23 picks. now 23 divided by 4 is .20% thats not that well, yes a few others but idk. how many all rookies do you think we will have this year?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Okay so im not neccesarily complaning but if memory serves me correct then between those 2 drafts we had a total of 23 picks. now 23 divided by 4 is .20% thats not that well, yes a few others but idk. how many all rookies do you think we will have this year?

Teams are alloted 7 picks though. So, in that respect he hit on 4/14--which is 28%. He turned those 14 picks into 23--compensatory picks (which you can't trade) notwithstanding.