WOW! Bust out your hip waders!!!!!

[wist43]

It's entirely possible to be a very good talent evaluator, and a poor GM at the same time.

I don't know that TT is a poor GM; over time, I actually think he'll be able to put a competitive team on the field year after year.

That said, I think it's a long shot to ever think that TT will be able to build a SB team. The one chance he took (Rodgers) was, or will prove to be, a mistake.

Beyond that, he is probably the most rigid guy on the planet, combined with his wildly annoying arrogance, leads me to believe that he'll always take good players, but they may not necessarily add up to a cohesive, championship calibur team.

Needs??? In TT's view, looking at needs is for the dumb and simple.

[Chubbyhubby]

Its obvious to me that TT has been drafting for the future. 3-5 years from now, He drafted HIS QB Aarron Rodgers, He is drafting for the Rodgers team. Not Favre's. You heard it here first : 2007-08 year will be Brett Favre's last year. TT hs made that very clear that Rodgers is HIS guy and the Packers have the attiude of winning later than now.

[Fritz]

TT : "I believe in building and that sort of thing. But I think you have to try to help your team. Quite frankly, I'd rather help us now rather than help us a year from now."


I am not saying that he should have made the trade, simply because I have no idea how strong next years draft will be. I am simply pointing out how much his comment reeks of hypocracy. One of the biggest arguments that the "TT lovers" keep throwing out, is the fact that TT is building for the future.

Somebody says "why didnt he go with an offensive player with the first pick"? A "TT" lover will quickly point out "he's building for the future."

Someone asks "why didnt he get Favre any help"? A "TT Lover" will be right there to tell you "because its not about winning now, our great god TT is building for the future.

So then, somebody points out that TT made a comment that reeks of Hypocracy, and some "TT Lover" calls him "Tank" (wtf, i am guessing its an inside joke that I should probably care less about) I think all of you "TT Lovers should either get up off your knees, or change your login names to something more appropriate........Like Bob, or Neil.

From my avatar you can see I trust TT and believe in what he's doing. However, I have not said that TT is simply building for the future. That's a gross generalization, and frankly I haven't seen many TT supporters here who have said what you claim.

Thompson is building the organization and is choosing players he believes will help this team win. He doesn't believe in mortgaging the future, no, but if he really was onlyu concerned about "the future" he would have pulled the trigger on that Cleveland trade or made a counter-proposal.

I would argue that this team is far ahead of where it was two years ago, when Sherman had attempted, for a couple of years, to keep giving Favre the tools he needed to win now. It almost worked for one year - the year of 4th and 26. (Even then people seem to forget that that wasn't the NFC champiosnhip game; the team that beat the Pack also lost that NFC championship game.) Other than that it was a second round blowout loss to St. Louis, a first round loss to Atlanta at home, a first round loss to Minnesota and the eventual inevitable crumbling of a team that had no depth thanks to Sherman's desperate attempts to plug holes so the team could take that one more shot with Favre at the helm.

It didn't work. Sherman tried trade his way up for immediate help, and it netted him Javon Walker and a loss of lots of picks that would have provided much-needed depth. And, as I chronicled above, it didn't even get the Packers into the NFC championship game, much less the Super Bowl.

So TT is not bringing in the big names. It's been reported Moss would only re-negotiate his contract with the Pats - this suggests that had TT pulled the trigger that Moss would want to be paid his full current contract and would be less than thrilled to be here. That's not a Moss that's going to do the team any good. And so TT picked some guys we don't recognize. That doesn't mean he's foregoing this season. All along, TT has said that improvement must come primarily from the guys that are there now. Historically this is true. How many rookies can come in and make a big impact? Maybe a running back, and to a lesser extent a wide receiver, but even Javon Walker did not produce a whole lot his first year. More likely a defender, but which one did you want him to take that would immediately have an impact on the team mlore than Harrell might?

TT is trying to build the organization. That may well pay off not only for the team but for Favre as well. I'll trust TT's picks over yours or mine. I bet he's watched a lot more film of Sidney Rice and James Jones than you or I.

We'll just have to wait and see.

[Merlin]

I have the balls, I AM a TT hater. I haven't liked the guy since he chose not to resign either Whale or Rivera and replaced them with 2nd or worse string players and a rookie. I didn't like the way he handled Sherman and I don't like the way he has handled our offense. Say what you want about Sherman, the guy was a good coach in a lot of ways. No, he wasn't Holmgren and his style was different than McCarthy's. But he did win and that is what the game is all about. I like McCarthy better but I don't think he will flourish until TT gets him the personell to do the job on offense. Favre was told that he won't have to carry the team prior to the 2006 season and yet he was put in the position to carry the team again. This year offensively, he will have to carry the team with less weapons then last year. I blame TT for wasting the last few years of a definite HOF and still a top 10 QB in the league if not top 5. I know people say that Rodgers hasn't been given a chance to play, blah, blah. I disagree with that entirely. He has been given every opportunity to show he has the skills and so far he hasn't shown anything. Rodgers admitted that he didn't study or work hard enough his rookie year because he knew he wasn't going to play. He was our backup QB and he didn't care enough to learn the job? He says all the right things to the camera and the media reports all the right things. But you never hear how impressive he is. You hear the same old mantra from the coaching staff about him improving and they like what they see. Some people don't pick up on that as being what they always say about a player. TT truly believes this guy is our future. His pride and arrogance isn't helping this team.

When TT came to town he made it very clear that he was in charge, coaches be damned. We can knock on Sherman all we want to for his performance as a GM, but that is hindsight. I don't see nearly the people knocking TT for his draft issues. This was his third draft. He should be knocked for taking Aaron Rodgers and claiming he was the BPA when it's clear there was a reason he dropped in the draft. He should be knocked for taking Murphy because his medical issue should have been something our team physicians should have picked up on. I loved the pick and I think he would have been great if he was healthy. He should be knocked for taking Whittaker, he should be knocked for not signing a veteran kicker and punter long term. Longwell may have been a wuss ass for the way he left but not replacing him with a veteran was stupid. Not that I have a problem with Rayner because I think he will evolve into an elite kicker and Ryan for that matter. But you do have to question his commitment to winning now by signing basically rookies to the kicking game and virtually no one to the offense. He has let go many pro-bowl players and I am sure Franks (although most of you have given up on him I haven't) will be lucky to make the team. That only shows me that he is building the team one "team" at a time and now in his third year, you would think the offense would get some attention. My opinion is that as long as Favre is around, TT won't do anything to help him out. We could have had Moss, even at his current salary although I don't buy that rumor for a second. We could have gotten Larry Johnson but instead opted for another rookie to vie for the spot. He let Henderson go and although he may not be what he once was, he did do the job he was asked to do last season. I don't see Miree as an upgrade over Henderson. I think he had a few years left in him and at the Vet's minimum, it would have been worth it just for his leadership. Keeping other players around that will not even make the roster over a skilled veteran who can do the job and has the people skills to help out the team far outweighs the "potential" a younger player may offer.

Building for the future is all fine and great, you know, where you find players to replace your veterans when they move on. Not cutting proven veterans and then putting rookies in their place. I know in 2006 we started more rookies then any other team. We probably did the same in 2005 by the end of the season. I know that over the past two season we have had a lot of rookies on the roster while our proven veteran pro-bowl players have dwindled down to a few. You get the rookies ready to replace the veterans, not through them under the bus. Although I think very highly of our starting rookies because they did a tremendous job under dire circumstances, that came at a very high cost to the team. Now we must wait out another season with an offense with no identity. It has been 2 years since our last winning season and TT has yet to sign any offensive player of notability save Koren Robinson who wasn't on the field long enough to contribute. What does that say about TT? To only sign a troubled veteran who he drafted with the Seahawks? What about Manual? The guy had a few good games because he had to fill in for the starter. There was a reason he wasn't the starter, Holmgren knows players and TT should have seen that. Face it, TT has an ego and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or says. It's his way or the highway, no matter the cost. That is something that simply cannot be tolerated any longer.

[the_idle_threat]

There were no running backs at 16 that were clearly better tha the guy we got in round 2. .

I think dishing that 2nd round pick for Turner would have made alot of sense.....

I like the new avatar.

I don't buy the hype on Turner, and it looks like TT doesn't either. Everybody loves the backup guy, but nobody really knows if he can carry the load. Lamont Jordan was highly thought-of when he was in New York, backing up Curtis Martin. Jordan has been pretty inconsistent carrying the load for Oakland.

The old thing that's new again in this league is running back by committee. Looks like that's where TT is going, and I'm ok with it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Do we even know Turner could be had for a 2nd? Sounds like San Diego was shooting for a 1st and 3rd, and maybe would have settled on a 1st.

[Merlin]

I wouldn't have given a 1st or 2nd for Turner, a backup to someone who will be one of the greatest backs of all time. Maybe a 3rd. There is no guarantee that he will perform any better then Morency. I think we got a steal in Morency for Gado even though I liked Gado for his attitude, Morency has some potential.

[the_idle_threat]

Edit: Nevermind... ***totally uncalled for flame post deleted***

I swear the negativity around here is getting to me. Need to take a break.

[Merlin]

First of all, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at a player and say "yeah" or "neay". Fans do it all the time so to single out me for my opinions is arrogant on your part since you do it as well. Or are you one of those double standard types who doesn't practice what they preach?

Secondly, comparing apples to oranges is only something that people do when their argument isn't working. For that matter, I seriously doubt that TT has the intelligence to figure out a "hello world" program based on how he hasn't figured out how to put together a winning football team in three years. Logic is everything, speculation is a gamble. As far as critiquing, as a programmer, my work gets critiqued all of the time by professionals and novices. That is the nature of programs, doing what the end user wants it to do. So I guess your "facts" do work in reverse.

As far as 20/20 hindsight, I think you need to go read my history on TT. I haven't been in the guys corner since the OL fiasco. I have questioned his logic and reasoning and his obvious ego and arrogance every step of the way. The only hindsight thought was the Murphy pick.

As far as wildass speculation, just because you disagree with something doesn't mean it isn't true. One could argue that your whole post is wildass speculation, would they then be wrong because you say so?

[the_idle_threat]

Crap, too late.

[Merlin]

Perhaps you shouldn't go throwing stones in your glass house next time. You won't hear many positives out of me regarding TT. Even when I do say something positive it goes largely unnoticed or just flat out ignored as is the case here.

If the negativity you claim is a problem, then I have a simple solution, don't read what I write since apparently it's never positive.

[the_idle_threat]

That's a great idea, Merlin.

btw--I don't "take back" what I wrote ... I just deleted it because it's inappropriate for this forum.

[Lurker64]

Still a lot of solid players on the board with the Browns pick and having their first round draft pick next year would have been incredible.

I see both sides on this though; I'm just surprised TT didn't pull the trigger on this one.

I'm less surprised actually, since the deal the Browns offered Thompson is actually less good than the deal Dallas got from the Browns.

The Browns 1st next year is worth 550 points according to the system, and our 1st this year is worth 1000 points. Switching 2nds with the Browns is would be a net gain of 130 (550-420), and Switching 3rds with the Browns is a net gain of 65 (255-190). So the Browns were offering 745 points for 1,000 points which would be a terrible trade value wise.

Dallas on the other hand got next year's 1st (550 points) plus this year's 2nd (550 points) for the number 22 pick which is worth 780 points, which is a fabulous deal.

I'd be willing to bet that the reason the Browns ended up trading with Dallas is that they low-balled all the teams before the Cowboys and were getting desperate. I also suspect that if the Browns had offered TT the same deal he offered Dallas (or maybe with a couple of low round picks thrown in), he would have been much more likely to take it.

But really, the way the points worked out, what Cleveland offered us was a bad trade. I'm not surprised or disappointed that Thompson didn't make a bad trade.

[Green Bud Packer]

I feel your angst Merlin as i too suffered thru a packer regime which i hated. the sherman years sucked for me. i loathed the man and his ways. he was sucking the joy of football out of favre. how is improving the defense not helping favre? any upgrades are a help to favre and the team. the 07 pack should be better just thru the maturing process of a young team. you lost alot of credibility with me cuz of your signature. thompsons 3rd seaaon is upon us and i think he will have built a winning team in his 3rd year. go pack.

[Merlin]

That's a great idea, Merlin.

btw--I don't "take back" what I wrote ... I just deleted it because it's inappropriate for this forum.

I wouldn't expect you to take it back. You are entitled to your opinions like everyone else. I expect you and everyone else to defend their opinions otherwise the opinion isn't worthy of conversation.