WOW! Bust out your hip waders!!!!!

[Merlin]

I feel your angst Merlin as i too suffered thru a packer regime which i hated. the sherman years sucked for me. i loathed the man and his ways. he was sucking the joy of football out of favre. how is improving the defense not helping favre? any upgrades are a help to favre and the team. the 07 pack should be better just thru the maturing process of a young team. you lost alot of credibility with me cuz of your signature. thompsons 3rd seaaon is upon us and i think he will have built a winning team in his 3rd year. go pack.

From what I can see from TT, from day one, his goal was to build his team. Favre is one of the last pieces that refuses to go away. Although I agree that building a defense does help the team, we for the first time in years will have the same defense on the field under the same defensive coordinator. That will make them better in and of itself. Tearing apart the offense and doing nothing to shore it up doesn't help the team and counteracts any statements made by TT stating he is for winning now. I guarantee you that if Rodgers was the QB, TT would be doing everything he could to get him play makers. I will stand by that statement until such time TT proves me wrong.

[Partial]

I feel your angst Merlin as i too suffered thru a packer regime which i hated. the sherman years sucked for me. i loathed the man and his ways. he was sucking the joy of football out of favre. how is improving the defense not helping favre? any upgrades are a help to favre and the team. the 07 pack should be better just thru the maturing process of a young team. you lost alot of credibility with me cuz of your signature. thompsons 3rd seaaon is upon us and i think he will have built a winning team in his 3rd year. go pack.

From what I can see from TT, from day one, his goal was to build his team. Favre is one of the last pieces that refuses to go away. Although I agree that building a defense does help the team, we for the first time in years will have the same defense on the field under the same defensive coordinator. That will make them better in and of itself. Tearing apart the offense and doing nothing to shore it up doesn't help the team and counteracts any statements made by TT stating he is for winning now. I guarantee you that if Rodgers was the QB, TT would be doing everything he could to get him play makers. I will stand by that statement until such time TT proves me wrong.

Who did we let go from last year to tear up an offense? Wahle was 3 years ago now. It's time we all move past that. Walker wanted to leave. He burned his bridges. Oh well. He focused last years draft around offensive talent. He improved the depth of it this year.

[Green Bud Packer]

with the way the off-season is going i believe thompson feels morency can carry the load at rb,he feels that d.d., jennings and robinson make up a soild recieving core and he likes his o-line. improving the d-line and special teams will add to wins this season. i believe all this and i ain't been drinkin kool aid.

[Merlin]

Longwell left on his own accord, that isn't on TT. What is on TT is not replacing the teams leading scorer with another proven leading scorer. He replaced him with a kick off specialist. I like Rayner but you don't take away the teams leading scorer and replace him with an unknown on a 4-12 team with a new coaching staff. The idea is to give the new coaching staff every opportunity to exceed. That's why I am very high on the current staff, TT didn't give them much to work with, he gave them a lot of raw talent and they still ended up 8-8 and I think that's impressive.

We lost Walker and yes, that is partially on Walker but also partially on TT for not defusing the situation and possibly resolving it amicably, that is his job. Jennings was a great pick up, as was Walker (ala Sherman) but other then that, Ferguson is still on the roster and no one has emerged as a strong #3. So this year we added two more rookies in hopes someone emerges #3. We didn't sign a solid veteran WR. So for the 3rd year in a row, we have DD, and now Jennings and who? The only person Favre has had to throw to the last 2 season is DD the rest has been by committee. This year is shaping up the same. I am sorry but you can only do that so often before it bites you in the ass. You would have thought our 12-20 record in the last two years would have made a difference in that thinking.

[Rastak]

Do we even know Turner could be had for a 2nd? Sounds like San Diego was shooting for a 1st and 3rd, and maybe would have settled on a 1st.

I definately wouldn't do that....nothing higher than a second.

[Merlin]

with the way the off-season is going i believe thompson feels morency can carry the load at rb,he feels that d.d., jennings and robinson make up a soild recieving core and he likes his o-line. improving the d-line and special teams will add to wins this season. i believe all this and i ain't been drinkin kool aid.

I like the OL and I think Morency is a great fit. I like how well he hit the holes last year in the ZBS. He has a burst to the hole, although I think he may be easier to bring down than Green was, he looks like he has all the right tools to be successful.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I am neither a TT hater nor lover.

I understand his inactivity in free agency for the most part. I understand him not going after extremely high priced free agents and jeopardizing future cap, but he was also to timid in free agency. I could of signed green and had this Brandon Jackson guy split carries with him, he could of went out try to sign to cheap free agents that could help the team now i.e. Hamlin and Griffin, etc. My point here is that he has the right idea; he just is just to far at one end of the spectrum. He needs to realize that you can build for the future and still make moves that can help you win now with out ruining cap, etc., in the future.

Also, while I do trust TT when it comes to the draft, I think overall this last draft was pretty average. And average is not good enough when your main plan is to build through the draft. He needs to produce at least 3 players that will be long term starters if this plan is to work and I don't think he did that in this past draft.

I don't expect big things this year.

[PackerTimer]

My opinion is that as long as Favre is around, TT won't do anything to help him out. We could have had Moss, even at his current salary although I don't buy that rumor for a second. We could have gotten Larry Johnson but instead opted for another rookie to vie for the spot. He let Henderson go and although he may not be what he once was, he did do the job he was asked to do last season. I don't see Miree as an upgrade over Henderson. I think he had a few years left in him and at the Vet's minimum, it would have been worth it just for his leadership. Keeping other players around that will not even make the roster over a skilled veteran who can do the job and has the people skills to help out the team far outweighs the "potential" a younger player may offer.

This is a huge problem with alot of posters here. You assume TT could have had Moss or Johnson had he just had the balls to pull the trigger. Other than some crap you read on the intertent, what makes you so sure that TT was the one who didn't pull the trigger on the trade?

[Merlin]

I agree that he is on the far end of the FA thing. There will be cap cuts yet and maybe he's holding out till then. If and when the true story about the Moss thing comes out, either TT will look like and ass or Moss will. Right now it's a toss up!

:P

[Merlin]

My opinion is that as long as Favre is around, TT won't do anything to help him out. We could have had Moss, even at his current salary although I don't buy that rumor for a second. We could have gotten Larry Johnson but instead opted for another rookie to vie for the spot. He let Henderson go and although he may not be what he once was, he did do the job he was asked to do last season. I don't see Miree as an upgrade over Henderson. I think he had a few years left in him and at the Vet's minimum, it would have been worth it just for his leadership. Keeping other players around that will not even make the roster over a skilled veteran who can do the job and has the people skills to help out the team far outweighs the "potential" a younger player may offer.

This is a huge problem with alot of posters here. You assume TT could have had Moss or Johnson had he just had the balls to pull the trigger. Other than some crap you read on the intertent, what makes you so sure that TT was the one who didn't pull the trigger on the trade?

First of all it isn't a "problem" with a lot of posters here, it's their opinion and obviously if differs from yours and that's okay. There have been for and against rumors around Moss since the trade went down. I don't know what happened. I don't know what TT did or didn't do. On the surface it would appear that he didn't do enough. As far as Larry Johnson, I only used that as a reference to his lack of going after reasonable talent. It sounded like the Johnson and Moss deals were workable for us yet neither happened. Letting Henderson go was a stupid move. He brings a lot to the team that isn't in the stat sheets. He could also still play at a high level for the vets minimum. If you look at TT's history, he usually opts for the younger talent vs proven veterans. Last year he waited until Manual was available and pounced all over him and Manual was nothing more then a TT draft pick at Seattle. He didn't prove he was a starter to Holmgren, you know the coach? One I believe we all have respect for so I will take Holmgren's opinion of a player more seriously than the GM who drafted him. It's just odd that the two players he went after without question were Manual and Robinson, "his" players. It was almost like he had to be talked into the Woodson deal.

[mraynrand]

I would have considered the Dallas-type deal, with an extra #2 this year. If you just give up our #16 for Clevelands #1 next year and swap positions in the rounds, you only gain position. If Cleveland has a good year, you could be drafting below #16. TT thought he was getting the best DT at #16. What if he's right? What if this guy is an all pro DT?

[HarveyWallbangers]

That's what's strange. Dallas got a MUCH better deal than what apparently was offered us. That makes little sense. Dallas got a GREAT deal. The deal offered us was more 50-50.

[mraynrand]

he was sucking the joy of football out of favre.

Was he? Didn't he completely re-vamp the WR postion after 2001? Wasn't Favre on pace for an MVP season 9 games into 2002, before he and half the team got injured? Whether you like Sherman or not, your statement couldn't be more misguided. Sherman spent four draft picks - two #4s (for Terry Glenn) and a #2 and a #1 to move up and get Walker. If you don't think spending for Walker helped Favre immensely, you weren't watching the Packers. Did you notice that Favre's numbers in 2004 matched his numbers in 1997? Hard to miss if you really follow football.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Swapping three draft picks for an exchange of 1st round picks is a lot different than the deal Dallas got. When you consider there is truly value in having a first round pick a year earlier, then their offer wasn't that great. It could turn out to be top 5, but if only turns out to be a top 10-15, then it's not a good deal for us. If it turns out to be worse than a top 15, then that's a horrible deal for us. With the way teams rise and fall in the NFL, that's a much bigger risk than the deal Dallas got.

[mraynrand]

That's what's strange. Dallas got a MUCH better deal than what apparently was offered us. That makes little sense. Dallas got a GREAT deal. The deal offered us was more 50-50.

I agree. It boggles the mind. Either the Browns were getting really desperate at that time, or Dallas just drove a harder bargain. If you think about it though, everyone in Cleveland is ecstatic, but if Brady Quinn flops, the Browns are going to suffer for another 4-5 years at least, especially because the mortgaged so much of the future on this year, including trading picks to move back into the second round. It really was a Shermanesque draft for the Browns (except Sherman never had higher than a #20 pick).