WOW! Bust out your hip waders!!!!!

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I also think Sherman got a better roster. Most of our core players were still reaching their prime. However, I do think that a lot of your assessments are wrong. No way is Harris, Driver, Clifton, Tauscher, and even KGB near the end when TT got the job. All of the players listed played equally as good with TT as they did with Sherman.

[Patler]

I think the point is that you have to start thinking about replacements for Driver and Harris, especially Harris.

I don't look at Clifton and Ttauscher really as being old. Tackles seem to hang on a long time. Clifton is a bit iffy because of the leg problems he has had, so you do need a quality backup for him. If they are healthy, you could put off looking for their replacements for another 2 or 3 seasons, at least.

[retailguy]

I think the point is that you have to start thinking about replacements for Driver and Harris, especially Harris.

I don't look at Clifton and Ttauscher really as being old. Tackles seem to hang on a long time. Clifton is a bit iffy because of the leg problems he has had, so you do need a quality backup for him. If they are healthy, you could put off looking for their replacements for another 2 or 3 seasons, at least.

And a very valid point that is. You almost always need to look at replacements.

I do look at Clifton as being old. Perhaps thats because I have bad knees and know from personal experience they are not likely to improve. Looking for an OT for depth was a prudent move.

I seriously question whether Cliffy will get through this season. We'll see... Tauscher is in "his prime", whatever that means and should be a "rock", well in a pillsbury way, anyhow, for many seasons to come.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm tired of going "sideways" into the damn alley with this guy over stupid statements he can't seem to stop making. If he just stuck with "reality" he's entitled to his opinion.

I think there are a lot of people who feel there are other people like this. There are some people that just keep saying the same things over and over. It's like a political thread.

It is my opinion that a majority of fair people would say that Sherman was a decent to solid coach who did NOT do well as GM. They'd also say that Thompson has done some good things (drafts)--while doing poorly in others (FAs), but that he should get more time to build this thing. He hasn't been a complete stiff, and his plan hasn't had enough time to bear fruit yet. I know everybody wants to win one for Brett, but that does little for long-term viability for the franchise--which is what Thompson is responsible for. This franchise was not in great shape when he took over. I think it's foolish to state otherwise, but that is my opinion. This team wasn't ready to challenge for a Super Bowl when Thompson took over. Thompson will be given another couple of years. After that, he can be judged fairly. If the team is stuck around 8-8 or worse, he'll be gone.

Even better are the people who belittle the other side when stating their opinion. It only makes their argument weaker in most people's eyes.

BTW, have we decided who gets your Kool-Aid avartar?

[Patler]

Starting offensive lineups inherited by Sherman, the GM vs TT. That is, these are the starting lineups in 2000 and 2004, the years before each took over as GM:

Schroeder/Driver
Clifton/Clifton
Verba/Wahle
Winters/Ruegamer (for Flanagan who was injured)
Rivera/Rivera
Tauscher/Tauscher
Franks/Franks
Freeman/Walker
Favre/Favre
Green/Green
Henderson/Henderson

An interesting thing is that of the changes that occured, Driver for Schroeder, Wahle for Verba, Flanagan for Winters, and Walker for Freeman, ALL except Walker were actually brought in by Wolf. They were there when Sherman took over.

Sherman had a good offense, but he inherited very good players on offense, and most if not all were young and on the way up. To his credit, he added Walker to it.

It's not surprising that now, seven seasons later, TT has had to make a lot of changes on offense. It was a very aging roster on offense.

The defense inherited by Sherman was mediocre, he made a lot of changes and it was still mediocre when TT took over. He did bring in several good players, like Kampman, Barnett and Harris; but he didn't improve it much with the changes he made. TT has continued with the changes. We'll see if it is better or not.

It appears that Sherman inherited a strong offense, and needed to build the defense. TT inherited the same, but now aged offense, and a wimpy defense. TT really needed to rebuild both sides of the ball when he took over.

[PackerTimer]

Some of you crack me up. I simply cannot believe that you can criticize somebody for making stuff up about Sherman when some of you routinely turn to fiction to bash TT. You claim he could have done this or he should have done that or he had this guy and failed to close the deal. The fact of the matter is, you don't know crap. If you want to go on bashing TT, I have no problem with that. His opinions about Sherman are every bit as valid as your opinions about TT.

[packinpatland]

I think the point is that you have to start thinking about replacements for Driver and Harris, especially Harris.

I don't look at Clifton and Ttauscher really as being old. Tackles seem to hang on a long time. Clifton is a bit iffy because of the leg problems he has had, so you do need a quality backup for him. If they are healthy, you could put off looking for their replacements for another 2 or 3 seasons, at least.

Is Tauscher all healed up adequately?

[Patler]

The true character of TT as a general manager will not be known until the team is "close." Can he pull the trigger for a critical free agent or two who can make the difference between a playoff challenging team and a playoff favorite?

Two years ago Thompson had very little salary-cap room in which to play the free agent market, and he brought in only one of any significance, Klemm, while re-signing Franks. Last year, he actually signed quite a few free agents, including Pickett, Woodson and Manual who are not inexpensive, and cheaper free agents like Taylor, White, Boerigter, and Gardner who had a lot of experience, while also hanging onto Kampman and extending Driver and Wells. This year, he has obviously been very quiet in the free agent market, but he has kept Barnett and Jenkins while also extending Harris.

The question we should ask ourselves is this, was there really anyone available that could have had a significant impact on the team who would not have cost an inappropriately high portion of the salary cap? We won't know the answer until we see if there really are any RBs, WRs beyond Driver and Jennings, or safeties on this team or not. If the ones we have are miserable during the season, then TT will be open for criticism in letting Green go or not signing a back, receiver or safety. If the ones we have are reasonably competent, TT will have made wise choices in preserving the cap AND in getting the roster younger..

[retailguy]

Some of you crack me up. I simply cannot believe that you can criticize somebody for making stuff up about Sherman when some of you routinely turn to fiction to bash TT. You claim he could have done this or he should have done that or he had this guy and failed to close the deal. The fact of the matter is, you don't know crap. If you want to go on bashing TT, I have no problem with that. His opinions about Sherman are every bit as valid as your opinions about TT.

please point to one piece of fiction that I have personally said against Ted Thompson.

[Patler]

I think the point is that you have to start thinking about replacements for Driver and Harris, especially Harris.

I don't look at Clifton and Ttauscher really as being old. Tackles seem to hang on a long time. Clifton is a bit iffy because of the leg problems he has had, so you do need a quality backup for him. If they are healthy, you could put off looking for their replacements for another 2 or 3 seasons, at least.

Is Tauscher all healed up adequately?

Considering that he was healed enough to start the last two games of the 2006 season, I would expect he should be fine by the start of the 2007 season.

[PackerTimer]

please point to one piece of fiction that I have personally said against Ted Thompson.

The comment wasn't pointed at you directly but general examples are people still claiming that TT is to blame for the failure of the Moss deal or my personal favorite the always popular TT is trying to push Farve out by dismantling the offense schtick. In all likelihood, neither of these are true and yet they are brought up countless times.

[Patler]

I do look at Clifton as being old. Perhaps thats because I have bad knees and know from personal experience they are not likely to improve. Looking for an OT for depth was a prudent move.

I seriously question whether Cliffy will get through this season. We'll see... Tauscher is in "his prime", whatever that means and should be a "rock", well in a pillsbury way, anyhow, for many seasons to come.

The funny thing is, since he was hurt in 2002, Clifton has missed only one game in the last 64 games (four seasons). The one he missed was because of illness last year. So far, he continues to answer the bell each and every week. I expect the Packers will give him some more "off time" during the weeks this year, much like they did the last few years of Earl Dotson's career, as his back gave him more and more problems.

[swede]

FIRST:

I'm a pretty big TT supporter. And every time I do get ticked off at TT I learn something that seems to get him off the hook. For example, I loved the idea of picking up Justin Griffith to be our FB. He signed for a measly couple of mil with, of all places, Oakland and I was HONKED.

Later I found out that GB had offered more money but the kid wanted to hook up with an old coach that was part of the new Raider regime. The only way to fight that kind of thing is by throwing too much money at a good, but not special, player.

I am likely to support TT for at least another year, and I hope that his faith in his coaching talent--even more than the playing talent--has been well-placed. If so, this team may get better. His draft and his FA work suggest that either a) he believes that many important parts to this team are already here, or b) he has a pathological inability to do a single goddam thing the masses are mooing at him to do.

AND:

I sense an influx of new members since the draft, and I want to warmly welcome all new posters. We that have been here since the beginining argue pretty fiercely at times. Watch as the issues come and go and you will find that this is a pretty entertaining and informative place to be. What may look like mouth-foaming attacks are pretty much friendly banter done the testosterone way. (apologies to Zig, 007, etc.)

[Charles Woodson]

Later I found out that GB had offered more money but the kid wanted to hook up with an old coach that was part of the new Raider regime. The only way to fight that kind of thing is by throwing too much money at a good, but not special, player.

where did u hear that?

[swede]

Later I found out that GB had offered more money but the kid wanted to hook up with an old coach that was part of the new Raider regime. The only way to fight that kind of thing is by throwing too much money at a good, but not special, player.

where did u hear that?

I thought someone threw it out here.

Both Atlanta and the Raiders have had coaching changes. A coach from Atlanta is now with the Raiders. I'll check coaching bios on the Raider website.