WOW! Bust out your hip waders!!!!!

[Patler]

Later I found out that GB had offered more money but the kid wanted to hook up with an old coach that was part of the new Raider regime. The only way to fight that kind of thing is by throwing too much money at a good, but not special, player.

where did u hear that?

I thought someone threw it out here.

Both Atlanta and the Raiders have had coaching changes. A coach from Atlanta is now with the Raiders. I'll check coaching bios on the Raider website.

That was printed in one of the GB or Milwaukee newspapers. I remember it as well.

[swede]

Greg Knapp, the offensive coordinator for the Raiders, worked for Atlanta the last three years.

The money thing will be trickier to prove, but really, the guy got paid peanuts compared to other FAs

[PackerBlues]

This is in reply to some of the Sherman/TT arguments I have read in this post.


Wow, I am not impressed at all. I give you guys all the cannon fodder you need to show some sort of an argument........and what do we get? More speculation on what could have been if this had happened or what might have been if that had happened. LAAAMMMMMEEE!!!!!!


Ok, lets look at a couple of facts from the history of the Pack.

(http://www.packers.com/history/birth...end/#chapter13)

Lets start with 2003 :

A return to the NFC Championship slipped painfully through the Packers' fingers in 2003. Donovan McNabb led the Eagles to a come-from-behind, 20-17 overtime win to end an emotional Packers run in the Divisional playoffs.

The loss snapped a memorable five-game winning streak. The stretch included changes to three of the most-revered records in Packers history (Forrest Gregg's 33-year-old consecutive-games streak, broken by Favre; Jim Taylor's 41-year-old season rushing record, Green; and Don Hutson's 58-year-old career scoring mark, Ryan Longwell). One day after the death of his father, Favre turned in the best game of his career, throwing for four TDs in a 41-7 win at Oakland. Then, Green Bay captured an improbable division title in the last two minutes of the season, when Arizona upset Minnesota and the Lambeau Field crowd broke the news to the Packers. Green Bay was in position to pass the Vikings thanks to its 7-2 record after the bye.

Green spearheaded the best running offense in Packers history, as the club captured nearly every franchise rushing mark. Favre led the NFL in TD passes a fourth time to tie a league record, throwing 19 of his 32 scores with a broken right thumb.



Now, what FACTS can we get from that? FACTS: The 3 records mentioned were all broken under Shermans Tenure, using his coaching. Green smashed records on the ground, Favre led the NFL in TD passes a 4th time.....with a broken right thumb. Green fumbled a lot, Sherman stuck with him. Favre had a broken thumb on his throwing hand....Sherman let him play. Again, That was in 2003.



Now, moving on to 2004 :


Adding to the hallmark of Sherman's tenure, the Packers overcame more adversity in 2004 to finish 10-6, winning a third straight division title. After an emotional kickoff-weekend win on a Monday night at Carolina, the defending NFC champion, Green Bay dropped four straight, its roughest start (1-4) since 1991.

But the team answered with a 38-10 win at Detroit, and kicked off a six-game winning streak. In fact, Green Bay went 9-2 down the stretch. Only the league's two best teams, Pittsburgh (11-0) and New England (10-2), had better marks over the season's final 12 weeks. Four of those nine wins came on Longwell's last-second field goals.

One year after erasing the franchise rushing record, most of the same personnel established the team marks for total offense and net passing. The season's peak came on Christmas Eve in Minnesota, when the team captured the division title with a 34-31 win over the Vikings. However, just two weeks later the same Vikings avenged the loss with a 31-17 win in a Wild Card playoff at Lambeau Field.



Now a few Facts from 2004. FACTS: The season started poorly, yet Sherman the coach, kept the team playing.....playing as good as any team in the league. See the stats for total offense and net passing? How does that happen under a guy who you say was a terrible coach?
I can already hear those of you who seem to enjoy sidestepping facts say "yeah, but we lost to the Vikings in the playoffs". That would be ignoring the fact that after such a rocky start......THEY STILL MADE THE PLAYOFFS!!!!
It was exciting, it was fun to watch, the drama was there, the Rivalry mattered.



Moving on to 2005, Teddy takes over. Gets rid of Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera (among others).....replaces them with SHIT.
Only 37 minutes into the 2005 regular season, the Packers lost leading receiver Javon Walker (knee). In the ensuing weeks, the team also lost starting halfback Green (quadricep) and his top backup Najeh Davenport (ankle) to season-ending injuries, while other injuries limited starting tight end Bubba Franks (knee, back), WR Robert Ferguson (knee) and C Mike Flanagan (sports hernia) for much of the year.

On defense, the Packers ranked seventh overall and were top-ranked against the pass. The team outgained opposing offenses in 12 of 16 games and actually had outscored them through the first 11 games.
Nice stats, except they still ended up 4-12, the Packers worst record since the 1991 season.

Let me say right now, anyone that would ignore the decimated roster (Thank Teddy for his fair share of it), and still blame Sherman for the 2005 season being so horrible........is a delusional half witted idiot. (and you can quote me on that.....feel free!)

[swede]

This is in reply to some of the Sherman/TT arguments I have read in this post.


Wow, I am not impressed at all. I give you guys all the cannon fodder you need to show some sort of an argument........and what do we get? More speculation on what could have been if this had happened or what might have been if that had happened. LAAAMMMMMEEE!!!!!!


Ok, lets look at a couple of facts from the history of the Pack.

(http://www.packers.com/history/birth...end/#chapter13)

Lets start with 2003 :

A return to the NFC Championship slipped painfully through the Packers' fingers in 2003. Donovan McNabb led the Eagles to a come-from-behind, 20-17 overtime win to end an emotional Packers run in the Divisional playoffs.

The loss snapped a memorable five-game winning streak. The stretch included changes to three of the most-revered records in Packers history (Forrest Gregg's 33-year-old consecutive-games streak, broken by Favre; Jim Taylor's 41-year-old season rushing record, Green; and Don Hutson's 58-year-old career scoring mark, Ryan Longwell). One day after the death of his father, Favre turned in the best game of his career, throwing for four TDs in a 41-7 win at Oakland. Then, Green Bay captured an improbable division title in the last two minutes of the season, when Arizona upset Minnesota and the Lambeau Field crowd broke the news to the Packers. Green Bay was in position to pass the Vikings thanks to its 7-2 record after the bye.

Green spearheaded the best running offense in Packers history, as the club captured nearly every franchise rushing mark. Favre led the NFL in TD passes a fourth time to tie a league record, throwing 19 of his 32 scores with a broken right thumb.



Now, what FACTS can we get from that? FACTS: The 3 records mentioned were all broken under Shermans Tenure, using his coaching. Green smashed records on the ground, Favre led the NFL in TD passes a 4th time.....with a broken right thumb. Green fumbled a lot, Sherman stuck with him. Favre had a broken thumb on his throwing hand....Sherman let him play. Again, That was in 2003.



Now, moving on to 2004 :


Adding to the hallmark of Sherman's tenure, the Packers overcame more adversity in 2004 to finish 10-6, winning a third straight division title. After an emotional kickoff-weekend win on a Monday night at Carolina, the defending NFC champion, Green Bay dropped four straight, its roughest start (1-4) since 1991.

But the team answered with a 38-10 win at Detroit, and kicked off a six-game winning streak. In fact, Green Bay went 9-2 down the stretch. Only the league's two best teams, Pittsburgh (11-0) and New England (10-2), had better marks over the season's final 12 weeks. Four of those nine wins came on Longwell's last-second field goals.

One year after erasing the franchise rushing record, most of the same personnel established the team marks for total offense and net passing. The season's peak came on Christmas Eve in Minnesota, when the team captured the division title with a 34-31 win over the Vikings. However, just two weeks later the same Vikings avenged the loss with a 31-17 win in a Wild Card playoff at Lambeau Field.



Now a few Facts from 2004. FACTS: The season started poorly, yet Sherman the coach, kept the team playing.....playing as good as any team in the league. See the stats for total offense and net passing? How does that happen under a guy who you say was a terrible coach?
I can already hear those of you who seem to enjoy sidestepping facts say "yeah, but we lost to the Vikings in the playoffs". That would be ignoring the fact that after such a rocky start......THEY STILL MADE THE PLAYOFFS!!!!
It was exciting, it was fun to watch, the drama was there, the Rivalry mattered.



Moving on to 2005, Teddy takes over. Gets rid of Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera (among others).....replaces them with SHIT.
Only 37 minutes into the 2005 regular season, the Packers lost leading receiver Javon Walker (knee). In the ensuing weeks, the team also lost starting halfback Green (quadricep) and his top backup Najeh Davenport (ankle) to season-ending injuries, while other injuries limited starting tight end Bubba Franks (knee, back), WR Robert Ferguson (knee) and C Mike Flanagan (sports hernia) for much of the year.

On defense, the Packers ranked seventh overall and were top-ranked against the pass. The team outgained opposing offenses in 12 of 16 games and actually had outscored them through the first 11 games.
Nice stats, except they still ended up 4-12, the Packers worst record since the 1991 season.

Let me say right now, anyone that would ignore the decimated roster (Thank Teddy for his fair share of it), and still blame Sherman for the 2005 season being so horrible........is a delusional half witted idiot. (and you can quote me on that.....feel free!)

Welcome aboard! I can tell you feel at home here already.

[PackerBlues]

FIRST:


I sense an influx of new members since the draft, and I want to warmly welcome all new posters. We that have been here since the beginining argue pretty fiercely at times. Watch as the issues come and go and you will find that this is a pretty entertaining and informative place to be. What may look like mouth-foaming attacks are pretty much friendly banter done the testosterone way. (apologies to Zig, 007, etc.)

I just would like to point out, that a few of us have been coming to this site for quite a while. I have pointed quite a few of my friends to this site because every once in a while......you are bound to come across that littte bit of news that you hadnt heard yet, the wishfull rumor that makes a guy dream with drool runnin down his chin, and yes, lots of pissing matches over the stupidest shit.

I am actually suprised by the number of laughs i get reading some of the posts, and the coolest part about this site,.........If I want to get caught up on the latest news, rumors, stats and facts.....I can just come here and have it all in seconds. (as opposed to visiting espn's site, nfl.com, jsonline, packers.com.......ect. ect.)

Just thought I would point out that some of us have been here for a while,hangin out in the background, enjoying the forums but not participating. I think the main reason for that would be that a lot of times, the very first reply to any given posting, is something negative from another PACKER FAN without any real argument or opinion to back up the negative comment.
I can see where a person would get sick of posting any of his or her opinions or their points of view........fairly quickly.

[PackerBlues]

Welcome aboard! I can tell you feel at home here already.

Heh Heh......thanks.

[Scott Campbell]

Let me say right now, anyone that would ignore the decimated roster (Thank Teddy for his fair share of it), and still blame Sherman for the 2005 season being so horrible........is a delusional half witted idiot.

Does that include Bob Harlan (who fired Shermy), and every NFL owner and GM that had a head coaching vacancy in the last 2 years, and decided that Sherman wasn't worthy?

Now either they are all dellusional, or you are dellusional. My money is on you.

[Scott Campbell]

Now, what FACTS can we get from that? FACTS: The 3 records mentioned were all broken under Shermans Tenure, using his coaching. Green smashed records on the ground................

I can use this same logic to prove that Wayne Fontes was the second coming of Vince. Barry Sanders was nothing until Wayne used his patented coaching techniques to mold him into a first ballot HOFer.

A few of you guys take some interesting liberties with so called "facts".



And welcome to Packer Rats.

:P

[Scott Campbell]

Re: Sherman

I still believe and always will that he should have been fired after the Philly game. I'm the first to admit that I'm not as forgiving as some here are. I believe that these guys get paid good money and don't have the "right" to make mistakes. Excuses are for losers and success in the NFL is judged by winning plain and simple.

Some people see the world in black and white, and struggle with ambiguity. Generally they don't run football teams.

[The Shadow]

Sherman was a decent coach. He major failure was that he couldn't succeed in the rarified air of the playoffs.
His record as a GM was woeful.
He needed to be replaced.
He was. The GM (at least in my opinion) is light-years better.
The new coach? Too early to tell, but I like what I've seen.
Time marches on.

[MadtownPacker]

I just would like to point out, that a few of us have been coming to this site for quite a while. I have pointed quite a few of my friends to this site because every once in a while......you are bound to come across that littte bit of news that you hadnt heard yet, the wishfull rumor that makes a guy dream with drool runnin down his chin, and yes, lots of pissing matches over the stupidest shit.

I am actually suprised by the number of laughs i get reading some of the posts, and the coolest part about this site,.........If I want to get caught up on the latest news, rumors, stats and facts.....I can just come here and have it all in seconds. (as opposed to visiting espn's site, nfl.com, jsonline, packers.com.......ect. ect.)

Just thought I would point out that some of us have been here for a while,hangin out in the background, enjoying the forums but not participating. I think the main reason for that would be that a lot of times, the very first reply to any given posting, is something negative from another PACKER FAN without any real argument or opinion to back up the negative comment.
I can see where a person would get sick of posting any of his or her opinions or their points of view........fairly quickly.

Great post PackerBlues!!

[RashanGary]

I agree wiht the sentiment here. RG and I go back and forth a little. I can take a few lumps and he has too.

That said, I've always had a problem with new people getting ripped. It's hard when you're new. New guys have nobody that they can count on to back them up adn they feel like everyone else is buddys and ganging up.

I think we sometimes go back and forth a little adn most long timers have pretty thick skin (you have to to post at a forum regularly)

That said, a newby might not want to post if it all hits right away. If you've been ripped on, it's normal at any forum. I go to a few and it's part of putting our opinion out. That said, I think there should be consideration just so we can have a welcoming forum to newbs. AFter 100 posts you're fair game though That's just my opinion

[Lurker64]

I've found that conspicuously lurking for several months can be quite useful.

[Bretsky]

I agree wiht the sentiment here. RG and I go back and forth a little. I can take a few lumps and he has too.

That said, I've always had a problem with new people getting ripped. It's hard when you're new. New guys have nobody that they can count on to back them up adn they feel like everyone else is buddys and ganging up.

I think we sometimes go back and forth a little adn most long timers have pretty thick skin (you have to to post at a forum regularly)

That said, a newby might not want to post if it all hits right away. If you've been ripped on, it's normal at any forum. I go to a few and it's part of putting our opinion out. That said, I think there should be consideration just so we can have a welcoming forum to newbs. AFter 100 posts you're fair game though That's just my opinion

I'd completely agree here; I think I have pretty thick skin and normally don't even realize when I'm getting ripped. Hopefully I'm not one ever laying into the newbies either

[Patler]

Perhaps to feel more welcome a newer poster shouldn't come on and

.. call other posters "LAAMMMMMEE"
refer to anyone with an opposite opinion as "a delusional half witted idiot"

Just a thought!