WOW! Bust out your hip waders!!!!!

[woodbuck27]

CW,

It's very possible that if we trade down with the Broncos that we don't get Harrell. Also, it's foolish to assume that we can make all these trades without any ripple effect. One trade effects several more, which then effects the players and where they go.

Also, the idea that TT is sabotaging the team to make it his own is just unrealistic. Do you honestly think that TT, to boost his own ego, would make the team worse? It's just ludacris.

And who cares about "value"? Value is just an illusion created by draft experts to make talk. Oh, we got 5th round value in the 3rd round? That blows. We got a 3rd round value in the 5th round? Fantastic.

Value means nothing. It's the players you draft that makes the difference, not the "value" at which you get them.

There is off the top too much evidence that TT has neglected us on the offensive side of the ball since his arrival.

He certainly did so this off season except for extending Al Harris,Cullen Jenkins and Nick Barnnett. All three simply deserving of that outcome.

That fact of a failure to date in the off season is in all of our faces. No matter where you stood as a Packer fan regarding opinion on Ted Thompson's competence or agenda he did a poor job this off season. Just the fact that there is so much heat here on this question draws attention to just that.

Is this because he wants to have total control of the team.NO !!!

He already as GM 'on face' owns that. Yet he does have his boss (boss's).

Re-call the fact that he meets with the Packer Board to discuss direction. . . ie acquiring Randy Moss.

It could be argued that as a GM he had a horrid off season compared to all other NFL GM's. Very difficult to find much to point to, to weigh in on the contrary.

As a board we should be trying to console one another by determining why he fails us so obviously offensively.

Take Brett Favre and Donald Driver away from the Packers and what are we left with on offense that can obviously generate a win for us ?

[woodbuck27]

Re: WOW! Bust out your hip waders!!!!!

That deal makes way too much sense for Ted Thompson to go for it and desert his agenda.

That is exactly what TT is all about. I agree 100% with Merlin when he says TT wants it to be his team.

I guess i cant say alot because we dont know how this guy will turn out, but one things for sure that TT no long ever again has the excuse of not signing/picking a guy solely on the fact that he
gets injured. I think thats the thing that pissed me off so much. I guess i think that in value and everything TT really screwed the pooch on this one. I mean he could have gotten the most value by doing this:


First move is to trade down with the Broncos
Jaguars got a 3rd and a 5th to move back 4 spots. That way in my opionion the Harrell pick wouldnt quite be such a reach. and if TT was so in love with him then theres no stopping him picking him. But if hes not there then

Secound move is to trade down with Clevland...
That way you just sucked draft picks out of 2 teams. Your still ahead of Dallas so that assumes that your getting a better deal. This way your set for the future and now...

Third move, and this is still if TT wants, he can move our original 2nd and trade with the Jets (if he still wanted to)

So you have 3 round 3 selections, I make a trade to move up with ethier broncos or miami:

Miami's pick:235
Denvers pick:240

Packers-3+5+6+6+6=237


that way our draft picks look like this

Clevlands 1 next year
2(36) 2(63)
3(70) 3(78) 3(89)
4(119)
5(159(i think)
7(228) 7(293)


And this is what i would do with those picks

2-Ethier Rice, Jarrett, or Smith

2-Pittman

3-Marcus McCauley

3-Tank Tyler

3-Aaron Rouse

4-Allen Barbe

5-David Clowney

7-Michael Allen

7-Darius Walker

please excues spelling
Also i know that there are alot of IFs in this and most likely a few flaws. this is just how i would do it.

WOW !

Alot of work in that post CW.

It's really difficult to guage now what was going on last Sat. regarding TT's options to trade down with Cleveland or Dallas but he was certainly presented with opportunities and he had to have the ability to think fast on his feet.

We have never seen evidence that this personality quality is one that Ted Thompson is gifted with.

He may at best be described as a plodder. That is one of the personality traits that I see in him and his non chalent attitude that is killing us and will continue to do so.

Ted Thompson isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.

[MJZiggy]

Re: WOW! Bust out your hip waders!!!!!

It's really difficult to guage now what was going on last Sat. regarding TT's options to trade down with Cleveland or Dallas but he was certainly presented with opportunities and he had to have the ability to think fast on his feet.

We have never seen evidence that this personality quality is one that Ted Thompson is gifted with.

He may at best be described as a plodder. That is one of the personality traits that I see in him and his non chalent attitude that is killing us and will continue to do so.

Ted Thompson isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.

We saw evidence of it last year. That was a great draft with a lot of quick wheeling and dealing.

[woodbuck27]

Re: WOW! Bust out your hip waders!!!!!

It's really difficult to guage now what was going on last Sat. regarding TT's options to trade down with Cleveland or Dallas but he was certainly presented with opportunities and he had to have the ability to think fast on his feet.

We have never seen evidence that this personality quality is one that Ted Thompson is gifted with.

He may at best be described as a plodder. That is one of the personality traits that I see in him and his non chalent attitude that is killing us and will continue to do so.

Ted Thompson isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.

We saw evidence of it last year. That was a great draft with a lot of quick wheeling and dealing.

Here's Rd. two of Sat's draft. What do you see?:

11 43 Detroit (from Buffalo) Stanton, Drew QB 6-3 235 Michigan State
12 44 Minnesota (from Atlanta) Rice, Sidney WR 6-4 202 South Carolina
13 45 Carolina Jarrett, Dwayne WR 6-5 213 Southern California
14 46 Pittsburgh Woodley, LaMarr DE 6-2 269 Michigan

15 47 N.Y. Jets (from Green Bay for pick no. 63 and a 6th Rd. pick no.191) Harris, David ILB 6-2 239 Michigan

16 48 Jacksonville Durant, Justin ILB 6-1 235 Hampton

17 49 Cincinnati Irons, Kenny RB 5-11 195 Auburn

18 50 Tennessee Henry, Chris RB 6-0 228 Arizona

19 51 N.Y. Giants Smith, Steve WR 5-11 199 Southern California

20 52 St. Louis Leonard, Brian FB 6-1 238 Rutgers

21 53 Cleveland (from Dallas) Wright, Eric CB 5-11 190 Nevada-Las Vegas

22 54 Kansas City McBride, Turk DT 6-4 276 Tennessee
23 55 Seattle Wilson, Josh CB 5-9 188 Maryland

24 56 Denver Crowder, Tim DE 6-4 271 Texas

25 57 Philadelphia Abiamiri, Victor DE 6-5 271 Notre Dame

26 58 Detroit (from New Orleans) Alama-Francis, Ikaika DE 6-5 250 Hawaii

27 59 Carolina (from N.Y. Jets) Kalil, Ryan C 6-3 291 Southern California

28 60 Miami (from New England) Satele, Samson C 6-2 311 Hawaii

29 61 Detroit (from Baltimore) Alexander, Gerald FS 6-0 210 Boise State

30 62 Chicago (from San Diego) Bazuin, Dan DE 6-3 265 Central Michigan

31 63 Green Bay (from Chicago through N.Y. Jets) Jackson, Brandon RB 5-10 210 Nebraska

32 64 Tampa Bay (from Indianapolis) Piscitelli, Sabby SS 6-3 224 Oregon State

[TheCheese]

Re: WOW! Bust out your hip waders!!!!!

WOW !

Alot of work in that post CW.

It's really difficult to guage now what was going on last Sat. regarding TT's options to trade down with Cleveland or Dallas but he was certainly presented with opportunities and he had to have the ability to think fast on his feet.

We have never seen evidence that this personality quality is one that Ted Thompson is gifted with.

He may at best be described as a plodder. That is one of the personality traits that I see in him and his non chalent attitude that is killing us and will continue to do so.

Ted Thompson isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.

Who says he didnt have the ability to think fast on his feet when they offered him to trade down? Were you there? Did you see him choke? Or is your biase commanding your perception towards Ted's actions?

Now you can call him a bad GM all you want, but why would you insult his intelligence? Solely because he hasnt done every little move you would of done, with all your knowledge you get from your little websites, and your expert scouting resources and what the "draft experts" from TV tell you who is a good player and who is a not so good player, the same experts who said Collins and Jennings was a reach? Get real.

The bottom line is this, TT loves to trade down, he has a history of it, but only when he makes out the better value. You have no idea what his draft board looks like, none of us do, but we can all stipulate on the fact the guy knows how to judge talent. He saw something in Harrell that appealed to him greatly, so greatly that even though other teams may of offered him fair deals to move down, he did not want to take the chance on missing out on drafting Harrell. That would of been bad value to him, and since he is the GM, bad value for the Green Bay Packers.

What if Harrell was his 8th overall player on his draft board and he has a chance to draft him at 16, what is he supposed to do, hope none of the other teams overlooked this guys talent, that maybe hes Teddy's little secret? You guys put way too much stock into what these draft "gurus" big boards look like.

Now you guys listing other things TT should of done; gotten this player in this round, done this trade and signed that player, this is the perfect example of the logical fallacy monday morning quarterback. It really is daunting that some of you really state what players Ted should of got in what rounds. AFTER the draft. Im sure he would do the same if he could see into the future, but in reality you can't.

Reservations must be made on Thompson's GM job for at least another year till you decide if hes garbage, or a good GM. This is a long term body of work and narrow minds will always be the first to cry and complain and things they would of done different, somehow these people believe themselves to be so qualified.

We didnt know Sherman was a poor GM his first couple of seasons, just like we dont know if Ted is a good or bad GM yet, but as time goes by the answer will become more and more apparent.

One thing I sure am glad about is he doesnt allow the cumulating pressure of ignorant fans' personel wishes to affect him.

[woodbuck27]

Re: WOW! Bust out your hip waders!!!!!

WOW !

Alot of work in that post CW.

It's really difficult to guage now what was going on last Sat. regarding TT's options to trade down with Cleveland or Dallas but he was certainly presented with opportunities and he had to have the ability to think fast on his feet.

We have never seen evidence that this personality quality is one that Ted Thompson is gifted with.

He may at best be described as a plodder. That is one of the personality traits that I see in him and his non chalent attitude that is killing us and will continue to do so.

Ted Thompson isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.

Who says he didnt have the ability to think fast on his feet when they offered him to trade down? Were you there? Did you see him choke? Or is your biase commanding your perception towards Ted's actions?

Now you can call him a bad GM all you want, but why would you insult his intelligence? Solely because he hasnt done every little move you would of done, with all your knowledge you get from your little websites, and your expert scouting resources and what the "draft experts" from TV tell you who is a good player and who is a not so good player, the same experts who said Collins and Jennings was a reach? Get real.

The bottom line is this, TT loves to trade down, he has a history of it, but only when he makes out the better value. You have no idea what his draft board looks like, none of us do, but we can all stipulate on the fact the guy knows how to judge talent. He saw something in Harrell that appealed to him greatly, so greatly that even though other teams may of offered him fair deals to move down, he did not want to take the chance on missing out on drafting Harrell. That would of been bad value to him, and since he is the GM, bad value for the Green Bay Packers.

What if Harrell was his 8th overall player on his draft board and he has a chance to draft him at 16, what is he supposed to do, hope none of the other teams overlooked this guys talent, that maybe hes Teddy's little secret? You guys put way too much stock into what these draft "gurus" big boards look like.

Now you guys listing other things TT should of done; gotten this player in this round, done this trade and signed that player, this is the perfect example of the logical fallacy monday morning quarterback. It really is daunting that some of you really state what players Ted should of got in what rounds. AFTER the draft. Im sure he would do the same if he could see into the future, but in reality you can't.

Reservations must be made on Thompson's GM job for at least another year till you decide if hes garbage, or a good GM. This is a long term body of work and narrow minds will always be the first to cry and complain and things they would of done different, somehow these people believe themselves to be so qualified.

We didnt know Sherman was a poor GM his first couple of seasons, just like we dont know if Ted is a good or bad GM yet, but as time goes by the answer will become more and more apparent.

One thing I sure am glad about is he doesnt allow the cumulating pressure of ignorant fans' personel wishes to affect him.

I'll repeat. . .

WOW !

Alot of work in that post CW.

It's really difficult to guage now what was going on last Sat. regarding TT's options to trade down with Cleveland or Dallas but he was certainly presented with opportunities and he had to have the ability to think fast on his feet.

We have never seen evidence that this personality quality is one that Ted Thompson is gifted with.

He may at best be described as a plodder. That is one of the personality traits that I see in him and his non chalent attitude that is killing us and will continue to do so.

Ted Thompson isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.

and I continue:

What bothered me alot more than his decision at NO. 16, that could only be realy appreciated if one studies this man. Was the move he made to trade down out of pick No. 47 in the second.

His board. . . your's, mine any man's board doesn't matter when you have a number of players all lined up that might make an immediate impact on your team and satisfy certain need.

In the second Rd. it can't be ignored that TT made a need pick.He dropped fr. pick No. 47 to pick No. 63 passing over some really decent players for what?

A RB that was rated lower than some that were already available to him at No. 4. A RB that we now believe scored what? An 11 on the Wonderlik. Was TT aware of that score? If so why did he picki him? Was he targeting him or was he the BPA?

At No. 47 he had RB's Irons and Henry staring him in the face. He had WR Smith and a very decent FB in Leonard. So he trades down to the bottom of the second to gain a 6th?? What was the sense there?

Why go with 9-11 players out of the draft by watering down when he could pick the best eight available as his picks came up? Bring in those eight and cut down on confusion and disappointment.

Quality doesn't necessarily come in numbers.

Confusion often does.

TT doesn't show intelligent consistency. He doesn't give 'the Packers' the effort with results that we as Packer fans deserve to see.

I'll hold up 12-20 for YOU to see and justify, based on TT's magical qualities.

I'll go a step further.

If our team finish's better than 7-9 this season. I'll come to your driveway and kiss your ass.

I'm being very very cautious with that offer.

[PackerBlues]

He spent a second round pick on WR Terrence Murphy--who looked good before he got injured. Murphy had never gotten injured while at Texas A&M, so it's hard to put the blame on him for that.

Is WR Terrence Murphy on the current roster? If he is, I apologize for failing to mention such a key figure in our offense. Also wondering.....is this what is reffered to as a "double standard"? Its ok for Teds boys to get injured but if anyone gets injured under Shermy, its all Shermy's fault?

In 2006, he signed Koren Robinson and picked up Ruvell Martin. He brought in a ton of WRs during his time.

yeah, lets not forget the Speedy Drunk. Actually, I didnt forget him, its just that he is not on the current roster. Cant play till after the first 4 games I believe. Besides, I expect that if we really end up needing him......Teddy will wait till the last second to trade him for a ham sandwich and a bottle of YooHoo. As for Ruvell Martin, he is on the above posted list. Gee, did ya think i would forget a player of Revell Martin's Quality. HA!

In 2005, he brought in Samkon Gado at RB--who looked like a real find. He just didn't fit the new scheme the next year.

Yeah he looked like a real find......why do you think Ted got rid of him. Heaven forbid he keeps a player of Samkons quality that the fans and the team had fallen in love with. By "doesnt fit the new scheme", i would have to assume you mean he was an offensive player that actually looked promising.

Let me say first that I agree with Harvey - you neglected TT's drafting of Terraqnce Murphy in the second round, and his signing of Koren Robinson.

See, this is what I meant when I said there are so many posts that have me laughing out loud. Dont worry Fritz, I am laughing with you, not at you. Honestly, lol.

[HarveyWallbangers]

One thing stands out ever since he took over as GM. Offense really doesnt matter to him.

I pretty much blew up your point, huh?

[The Shadow]

".....The way that TT has treated our franchise QB is obvious neglect and deplorable to me as a Packer fan that see's such a man in Brett Favre that I totally respect."
I like Favre, too.
How ,exactly, has Thompson so 'neglected' him?
What, exactly, is so 'deplorable'?

This one really escapes me.
Has he refused to pay him his megamillions?
Has he somehow tarnished Favre's iconic status among his fawning Cult?
Shot his dog?

Sorry - this one just doesn't play in Peoria.

".....The farce that is Ted Thompson is fully exposed now and it's a shame that so many are still fooled or in denial."

This is a good one, too.
I think an awful lot of us have been 'fooled' and are now in 'denial'.

[Scott Campbell]

Re: Sherman

I still believe and always will that he should have been fired after the Philly game. I'm the first to admit that I'm not as forgiving as some here are. I believe that these guys get paid good money and don't have the "right" to make mistakes. Excuses are for losers and success in the NFL is judged by winning plain and simple.

Some people see the world in black and white, and struggle with ambiguity. Generally they don't run football teams.

Well, how much time was wasted on Sherman AFTER that game? Seeing things in black and white makes them less complicated.

Maybe in Sherman's case. But what about Bill Cowher?

[The Shadow]

a tank is a tank is a tank is a tank is a tank.

[retailguy]

a tank is a tank is a tank is a tank is a tank.

Sorry Shadow, it's NOT a tank.

[TheCheese]

Re: WOW! Bust out your hip waders!!!!!

WOW !

Alot of work in that post CW.

It's really difficult to guage now what was going on last Sat. regarding TT's options to trade down with Cleveland or Dallas but he was certainly presented with opportunities and he had to have the ability to think fast on his feet.

We have never seen evidence that this personality quality is one that Ted Thompson is gifted with.

He may at best be described as a plodder. That is one of the personality traits that I see in him and his non chalent attitude that is killing us and will continue to do so.

Ted Thompson isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.

Who says he didnt have the ability to think fast on his feet when they offered him to trade down? Were you there? Did you see him choke? Or is your biase commanding your perception towards Ted's actions?

Now you can call him a bad GM all you want, but why would you insult his intelligence? Solely because he hasnt done every little move you would of done, with all your knowledge you get from your little websites, and your expert scouting resources and what the "draft experts" from TV tell you who is a good player and who is a not so good player, the same experts who said Collins and Jennings was a reach? Get real.

The bottom line is this, TT loves to trade down, he has a history of it, but only when he makes out the better value. You have no idea what his draft board looks like, none of us do, but we can all stipulate on the fact the guy knows how to judge talent. He saw something in Harrell that appealed to him greatly, so greatly that even though other teams may of offered him fair deals to move down, he did not want to take the chance on missing out on drafting Harrell. That would of been bad value to him, and since he is the GM, bad value for the Green Bay Packers.

What if Harrell was his 8th overall player on his draft board and he has a chance to draft him at 16, what is he supposed to do, hope none of the other teams overlooked this guys talent, that maybe hes Teddy's little secret? You guys put way too much stock into what these draft "gurus" big boards look like.

Now you guys listing other things TT should of done; gotten this player in this round, done this trade and signed that player, this is the perfect example of the logical fallacy monday morning quarterback. It really is daunting that some of you really state what players Ted should of got in what rounds. AFTER the draft. Im sure he would do the same if he could see into the future, but in reality you can't.

Reservations must be made on Thompson's GM job for at least another year till you decide if hes garbage, or a good GM. This is a long term body of work and narrow minds will always be the first to cry and complain and things they would of done different, somehow these people believe themselves to be so qualified.

We didnt know Sherman was a poor GM his first couple of seasons, just like we dont know if Ted is a good or bad GM yet, but as time goes by the answer will become more and more apparent.

One thing I sure am glad about is he doesnt allow the cumulating pressure of ignorant fans' personel wishes to affect him.

I'll repeat. . .

WOW !

Alot of work in that post CW.

It's really difficult to guage now what was going on last Sat. regarding TT's options to trade down with Cleveland or Dallas but he was certainly presented with opportunities and he had to have the ability to think fast on his feet.

We have never seen evidence that this personality quality is one that Ted Thompson is gifted with.

He may at best be described as a plodder. That is one of the personality traits that I see in him and his non chalent attitude that is killing us and will continue to do so.

Ted Thompson isn't the brightest bulb on the tree.

and I continue:

What bothered me alot more than his decision at NO. 16, that could only be realy appreciated if one studies this man. Was the move he made to trade down out of pick No. 47 in the second.

His board. . . your's, mine any man's board doesn't matter when you have a number of players all lined up that might make an immediate impact on your team and satisfy certain need.

In the second Rd. it can't be ignored that TT made a need pick.He dropped fr. pick No. 47 to pick No. 63 passing over some really decent players for what?

A RB that was rated lower than some that were already available to him at No. 4. A RB that we now believe scored what? An 11 on the Wonderlik. Was TT aware of that score? If so why did he picki him? Was he targeting him or was he the BPA?

At No. 47 he had RB's Irons and Henry staring him in the face. He had WR Smith and a very decent FB in Leonard. So he trades down to the bottom of the second to gain a 6th?? What was the sense there?

Why go with 9-11 players out of the draft by watering down when he could pick the best eight available as his picks came up? Bring in those eight and cut down on confusion and disappointment.

Quality doesn't necessarily come in numbers.

Confusion often does.

TT doesn't show intelligent consistency. He doesn't give 'the Packers' the effort with results that we as Packer fans deserve to see.


I'm being very very cautious with that offer.

Once again, you are demontrating the type of thinking I specifically explained in my previous post. How do you know that was a need pick for Jackson? You're basing assumptions on that being a need pick from absolutely no facts.

And from going to 47 and 63, how do you know all those players are decent? How do you know Jackson isnt decent? How exactly do you know everything about the draft?

Also, you state that Jackson was a RB rated lower than the ones he chose him over. Rated by who? Please read my previous post again, this is really ridiculous. How many recievers were rated above Marquis Colston? Draft ratings from "draft experts" are not anything close to concrete, take these ratings with a grain of salt.

And what does his wonderlic score matter? I could'nt care less our RB scored an 11. What the hell does it matter? And by your logic than Sherman should not of drafted Javon Walker because we all know about his low wonderlic score of 9, yet you bash TT for letting Walker go. And you say TT is inconsistent?

We just didnt get an extra 6th rounder for moving down, we got 63rd, 109, and 191, which we won on the standard value chart = good trade. One last thing, how is accumulating all these draft picks confusing? I know you arent saying that with all these players we are getting our coaches and GM are getting confused from them, that would just be absurd so I'll take it as a typo.