Why I WORRY about Jones.

[HarveyWallbangers]

They were solid. They weren't Will Whitticker. He had so start from scratch there because of the way the former regime set up some contracts, and I think he found the long-term solutions.

[Joemailman]

What number pick was Antonia Freeman?

90th pick overall.

You obviously have this info at your ready so..........could you list our starters and # they were picked? thank you, thank you.

Scott Wells 251
Daryn Colledge 47
Jason Spitz 75
Mark Tauscher 224
Chad Clifton 44
Bubba Franks 14
Donald Driver 213
Greg Jennings 52
Vernand Morency 73 (Houston)
Brandon Miree 247 (Denver)
Brett Favre 33 (Atlanta)
Ryan Pickett 29 (St. Louis)
Corey Williams 179
Aaron Kampman 156
Cullen Jenkins Undrafted
Nick Barnett 29
A.J. Hawk 5
Brady Poppinga 125
Charles Woodson 4 (Oakland)
Al Harris 169 (Tampa Bay)
Nick Collins 51
Marquand Manuel 181 (Cincinnati)

[MJZiggy]

Harvey.

What else is the HC going to do but play the players that TT designates as to be retained.

M3 has been quoted more than once saying that TT will not force players down his throat. I believe that the two of them have a very solid working relationship and that ability to work together is likely part of what got M3 the job in the first place.

[4and12to12and4]

Re: Why I WORRY about Jones.

I did some real research tonight on Jones. I knew he had played against inferior competition, so I wanted to know HOW inferior. Here's the proof in the pudding...rank of passing defenses SJS faced in 2006:

Wash St - 108th
Stanford - 23rd...looks good, but this is a 1-11 team.
Cal Poly - not Div 1-A
San Diego St - 17th...rating deceptive again...3-9 team that gave up 22 passing TDs on the year
Utah St - 112th
Nevada - 52nd
Louisiana Tech - 116th
New Mex St - 98th
Boise St - 45th
Hawaii - 105th
Idaho - 95th
Fresno St - 86th
New Mexico - 100th

So, out of the 20 worst passing defenses (by yardage given up) in DIV 1 college football, Jones faced 5 of them in 2006.

I am SO F-ING PISSED we didn't make a move for Jarrett...and have to settle for a one year wonder who put up numbers against some PATHETIC defenses. Hopefully my fears are misguided...but I think the evidence isn't very convincing in favor of Jones being battle tested and ready for the NFL.

chill out, we have plenty of talent at WR. You should start worrying whether our defense continues to get nearer to a dominating stage, and that our offensive line develops into a top 5 squad. If those happen, our receiving core will be very successful.

[4and12to12and4]

Abdul Hodge was projected to go in the 2nd round. Thompson "stole" him in the 3rd round. Hodge didn't do shit this year.
Dayrn Colledge and Greg Jennings were considered "reaches". They did well as rookies.

Jason Spitz was projected to go in the 4th-5th round last year. Thompson "reached" for him in the 3rd round. Spitz started at RG.

Tony Moll was projected to go undrafted. Thompson "reached" for him in the 5th round. Moll started 10+ games.

Aaron Rodgers was projected to be a top 10 pick. Thompson "stole" him in the 20s. Rodgers hasn't shown much.

Nick Collins was projected to be a 4th round pick. Thompson "reached" for him in the 2nd round. Collins has started for 2 years.

Mike Montgomery was projected to be a 4th-5th round pick. Thompson "stole" him in the 6th round. He hasn't shown much.

Seems to me, it's more likely than Jones will kick ass than not. The guys that Thompson "reaches" for seem to have a better track record than the guys that Thompson "stole" according to the scouts.

Yes, I understand the reverse has been true. Just trying to point out that the "experts" haven't even been remotely close while judging the Packers drafts recently. Seems to me the Packers scouting staff (which gets paid to do it) is doing a better job than the so-called experts.

Quality post, Harv. I'm changing my sig for a day in honor of this insightful interpretation of the facts.

Either TT has shot himself in the foot by picking dudes where he did, with one seeming reach after another, or he has once again recognized some good core talent and played his draft board exactly how it had been planned in order to get the kids he wanted.

He didn't get a chance to "do shit" this year, as I recall the first game he started he had a pick for a touchdown, so give the guy a break. He needs playing time.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Doesn't the fact he started one regular season game qualify him not doing shit this year? I'm not basing it one regular season game. It's on that game, the preseason games, and just word out of camp. He looks too slow for the Packers scheme, IMHO, but I hope I'm wrong. You can point out the gifted interception--for which he did nothing but be in the right place at the right time--but he was awful in that game. Barnett was out, and Shaun Alexander ran for 200 yards.

[BallHawk]

i did make a note of that when i watched the film, some of his highlights are because the DB's messed up or were out of position. But i still think hes pretty good.

i just think he may have been a reach

There is no such thing as reaching for a player.

Value is an illusion.

Donte Whitner was considered a boneheaded reach. He turned out being one of the best rookies of the class.

Ted Ginn is considered a big reach. If Ginn ends up being a Pro-Bowler and John Beck is their QB for the next 5+ years than that pick won't be remembered as a reach, but as good scouting. If TT gets his guy then I don't care if it's in the 3rd or the 4th or the 5th.

[esoxx]

There is no such thing as reaching for a player.


Donte Whitner was considered a boneheaded reach. He turned out being one of the best rookies of the class.

John McCargo was also thought to be a reach. He's proved to be underwhelming so far. You can't just point to one player and think that says it all. There's plenty of examples on both sides of the fence.

And of course you can reach for a player. Maybe the reach works like Whitner. Maybe it doesn't go so well like McCargo.

If Mason Crosy was picked in the first, think that would be considered a "reach"? Probably.

[HarveyWallbangers]

John McCargo was also thought to be a reach. He's proved to be underwhelming so far. You can't just point to one player and think that says it all. There's plenty of examples on both sides of the fence.

And of course you can reach for a player. Maybe the reach works like Whitner. Maybe it doesn't go so well like McCargo.

If Mason Crosy was picked in the first, think that would be considered a "reach"? Probably.

I don't think anybody is claiming otherwise, but more often than not, what is thought of as a reach by magazines and fans wasn't really a reach.

[esoxx]

Just trying to put out both sides here Harv. Nothing more

[Scott Campbell]

There is no such thing as reaching for a player.

Oh yeah? What about Grabby Smurf?

[4and12to12and4]

Doesn't the fact he started one regular season game qualify him not doing shit this year? I'm not basing it one regular season game. It's on that game, the preseason games, and just word out of camp. He looks too slow for the Packers scheme, IMHO, but I hope I'm wrong. You can point out the gifted interception--for which he did nothing but be in the right place at the right time--but he was awful in that game. Barnett was out, and Shaun Alexander ran for 200 yards.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly. If you blame Hodge for Alexander's 200 yards, then you have to blame everyone else on the defense, also. I'm sure that Barnett wouldn't have done that much to help in that game. As I recall, it was snowy, and slippery, and Shaun's running style, a straight up runner who doesn't stop and cut hard, was very condusive to the playing field. I thought he performed as well as anyone else on our defense in that game.

You said you're basing it on that game, preseason games, and "word out of camp"? Whose word is that? And as far as preseason, I think you're memory is faded a bit, Hodge was spectacular in the preseason games, he was a MONSTER against the run, and actually outplayed Hawk. Everyone is this forum was trying to figure how MM could start him. He was hitting people with authority and getting tackles behind the line of scrimmage.

The only question was could he defend the pass. He hadn't proved he couldn't, he just came in with the rep that it may be an issue. But, those preseason games he played in, he was destroying people. That's why I say he never got the chance to "do shit" last year.

You can say he got "lucky" by being at the right spot at the right time for his interception the ONE game he started, but how many of those interceptions were dropped by Hawk, Barnett, and our DB's last year? Plenty. He WAS in the right spot, because he put himself there, he CAUGHT the ball, and ran it back without slipping on his ass in horrible field conditions. It was a great play, and I hope he gets more playing time this year, to show how good he can be.

[BallHawk]

There is no such thing as reaching for a player.

Oh yeah? What about Grabby Smurf?

Hindsight is 20/20. We now know that Carroll was a horrible pick, but at the time he was considered a late first, early 2nd. He just didn't work out.

[Scott Campbell]

There is no such thing as reaching for a player.

Oh yeah? What about Grabby Smurf?

Hindsight is 20/20. We now know that Carroll was a horrible pick, but at the time he was considered a late first, early 2nd. He just didn't work out.

I don't remember hearing any 1st round hype on Ahmad. But I didn't hear much 1st round hype about Barnett, Walker or Harrell either.

[woodbuck27]

Wow wow wow on Abdul Hodge Harvey.

HE WAS IN A ROOKIE SEASON.

Why doesn't he get your pass for just this reason.

Ted Thompson gets your pass for three-four seasons at 12-20 to date - entering his third; and Hodge is judged as not doing what. . .shit !!

Cut Abdul Hodge some slack . . .please.