Since when has Brett been so committed to us??

[pbmax]

Why would you want a guy on your team that has quit on previous teams whose fortunes were going better than the Packer's right now?

Why guarantee a salary to a player who has been frequently getting injured?

Why remove the ability to withold game checks from a malcontent by guaranteeing the salary?

Packnut is right, finding the next QB will likely be painful and a long process (although Patler listed Starr, Dickey and Majikowski earlier as evidence it isn't impossible to find good ones).

But why sully the reputation of the team for minimal gain and sacrificing money and draft picks?

At least K Rob cost nothing in picks and has a minimal salary.

[gureski]

Why would you want a guy on your team that has quit on previous teams whose fortunes were going better than the Packer's right now?

Why guarantee a salary to a player who has been frequently getting injured?

Why remove the ability to withold game checks from a malcontent by guaranteeing the salary?

Packnut is right, finding the next QB will likely be painful and a long process (although Patler listed Starr, Dickey and Majikowski earlier as evidence it isn't impossible to find good ones).

But why sully the reputation of the team for minimal gain and sacrificing money and draft picks?

At least K Rob cost nothing in picks and has a minimal salary.

This isn't about whether it was right to get Moss or not. The point about this situation is whether or not Thompson told Favre he wanted Moss, then made an offer for Moss, and finally killed the deal after it was a go. That's what we need to know. WHY did Thompson not make the deal, if all the pieces were in place to do the deal? That's what matters. What matters is whether or not Thompson purposely chose not to improve the team. What matters is whether the GM hung Favre out to dry. Favre is recruiting and offering his own money to finalize the deal. The Raiders and Pack agree on a pick. What's the hold up at that point? IF that all happened the way Favre paints it, don't you want to know why Thompson refused to do the deal? Isn't that the real issue?

[Packnut]

Memo

Certain people oughta be locked in a room and forced to watch 24 hrs straight of Scott Hunter, Scott Campbell, Randy White, and Jerry T just to name a few. Then again the minority opinion is usually off the wall which is why it's the MINORITY opinion. The great number of Packer fans appreciate and respect Favre and only a complete idiot would dispute that.

Most people who express minority opinions usually do so just to get a reaction...........

People have differing opinions all the time and despite you're common insultes, people here have remained civil and reasonable toward you. You can make a point without calling someone an idiot. Acctually, people would probably take your point a lot mroe seriously because name calling really does turn poeple off.

Shut up and grow some thicker skin. If a little name calling hurts your feeilngs then you may want to go to the kiddie thread. Give me a break. This was the biggest overstatement about someone going personal that I've ever heard. The guy used the word 'idiot' and now he's Imus-P.R. style?

With that said, I can't believe the crap I'm reading in this thread on a subject in which NOBODY even knows what Favre really said about being traded! Anonymous sources? That's all the story about Favre asking for a trade was based on.

I always find it amusing when so many of you line up and open your mouth before you know what has even happened.

Here is what we know:

Favre criticized the Packers for not signing Randy Moss. He inferred that the offense needs help and that management isn't providing that help despite having the cap room to do so.

Anonymous sources said Favre demanded a trade.

That's it. That's all we know.

Shouldn't what was really said, and the context it was said in, matter?

Hypothetically, what if Favre and Thompson were in a heated argument in which Thompson was acting like an A-hole? What if, in that same argument, Thompson insulted Favre and Favre turned around and told him to trade him?

Would that be viewed differently than Favre just calling up, out of the blue, and demanding a trade?

I'm merely asking whether the actual facts and the context of what was said matters to some of you? To me, it does. To some of you, I don't think it matters. You just want to attack, attack, attack.... And I've seen this not only with Favre. There is a camp that hates Favre and wants to attack him. There is a camp that hates THompson and wants to attack him. There is a camp that hates Sherman and likes to attack him. It's crazy sometimes to see it happen but some of you just want to attack despite the facts.

If criticizing the GM is wrong than every single one of you guys out there that have griped about the Packers off-season and draft need to condemn yourself too. Are you going to tell me that Favre can't rip the GM but you can? What the GM does actually has a real life affect on Favre and his life.

There are two things that I thought of when this happened. Make it three...

1. God, I hope this isn't true.

2. The people who ripped Favre for speaking on Walker (I was not one of those guys) can now legitimately take a shot at Favre and say that had Favre kept his mouth shut that he'd have the big play WR that he so badly desires in J.Walker. It's a valid point for those that ripped Favre about ripping Walker. The Packers wouldn't have needed Moss if they hadn't been forced into an ugly situation that led to trading Walker and Favre helped push Walker out of G.B..

3. Favre isn't saying anything that many fans haven't also been saying about Thompson.

Those were my thoughts. I sat and listened to guys on the radio say how Favre has earned everything and should be given anything he wants. I listened to guys talking about how dumb Thompson is and how he dropped the ball and should be fired. I listened to people rip Favre and say how disgusted they are with him. I listened to fans list player after player that they wished we would've signed and I just shook my head. It's all so stupid. The comments are so stupid. All of them, on both sides of the issue.

First, nobody knows what was really said. Why haven't we learned that anonymous sources aren't reliable? How many times in the past have anonymous sources proven to be garbage in the end?

But that doesn't stop some people from taking the comments from anonymous sources and running with it. Bulldog was rather passionate in his comments but if you look at everything he said, it will become very clear, very fast that he has an agenda. Bulldog doesn't like Favre right now. He talks about how Favre loves the attention he gets when the retirement topic comes up every year. How does Bulldog know that Favre enjoys that? Doesn't the fact that Bulldog is taking such an overly biased stance on Favre that he dramatically jumps to the point of ripping his leadership abilities and questioning what Favre's comments do to little kids.....doesn't that call into question the legitimacy of Bulldog's comments? We don't even fully know what Favre said yet Bulldog is sure it will hurt little kids. That's just crazy! Bulldog doesn't even respect the context of Favre's comments that we do know Favre made! I see a guy, in Bulldog, who is pissed at #4 and is letting it all out because he thinks he has an issue. It doesn't matter if the issue is real, he just wants to get his shots in and lead as many others to his view as possible. He doesn't need evidence. This backs up what he's thought for a while. That's all the evidence he needs. I can understand him going off the way he is but what's the excuse of many of the rest of you?

On to Ted Thompson...

According to Favre, the only thing standing in the way of the Packers getting Moss was Thompson guaranteeing $3 million in the first year. Favre says he called and offerred to have the $3 million taken out of his contract. IF that's true, than Thompson deserves some heat right now and this is probably the real root of this issue with Favre. Just thinking about this and the best information we have right now.... Favre says he offerred to take the $3 million out of his own deal to pay for Moss. Favre says the deal fell through because Thompson refused to guarantee the $3 million. IF Thompson was willing to deal a pick for Moss and the only thing standing in the way was $$$ AND IF Favre was willing to pay the money himself, out of his own deal, than what excuse does Thompson have for not making the deal? It would appear as if Thompson really did something questionable that goes against making the team better. What risk was present in finishing the deal for Moss IF Favre was fronting the cash? IF Thompson had an offer on the table for Moss than that means that he was prepared to have him on the team so it's no longer an issue of whether Moss would kill the locker room or other questions like that.....IF it all came down to money and Favre was willing to underwrite the deal......why would Thompson shoot that down?

For me, that's the million dollar question. That's what I want to know more about. I want to know if Thompson screwed Favre (and all the fans) over. I want to know if Favre was out there recruiting Moss, with the blessing of management, and being told that the team wanted to do the deal only to watch Thompson literally refuse to do the deal when he had the chance. IF that happened, I want to know why and Packer fans deserve to know why. We spend our money on this team. We faithfully follow this team. IF Thompson had a deal in place for Moss in which Favre was willing to take money out of his contract to get the deal done.....than Thompson owes us an explanation. We need to known if there is truth to the, 'Thompson wants Favre gone' conspiracy theory. It's always been hanging there and now, if this happened the way Favre says it did, than this is a potential bit of evidence that Thompson is actually trying to force an end to the Favre era. I know it's ridiculous but you have to go where the facts take you. WHY would Thompson not pull the trigger on the deal if there was no risk? When you offer a draft pick for a player, you've already decided you want the player on your team. The only thing in the way of the deal being closed was money and Favre, according to his own comments, offerred to be the source of that money. What excuse does Thompson have for not doing the deal and giving the team another legitimate weapon? It doesn't make sense.

On Favre....

IF he was screwed over by Thompson and lied to or if Favre knows something we don't about the way Thompson is going about doing business than I can't fault Favre for criticizing Thompson. People are lining up to rip Favre yet lost in the emotion is the fact that Favre was willing to put his own money on the line in order to make the team better! Packer fans have had the luxary of watching Favre over the past 15 years so we known what he's all about. His personality and moral structure is one of the chief reasons people love Favre. Why would he suddenly turn into a turd? It doesn't make sense. Something is up. Favre saying something is a sign that something larger is going on here. He's NOT a 'me' player. Even in this situation, Favre offerred to give Thompson the money to make the Moss deal work. Isn't that one of the ultimate sacrifices a player can make? Isn't that the ultimate team player? By offerring money to Thompson so that Thompson can improve the team AND by physically picking up the phone and recruiting a player to come to G.B.....isn't that the ultimate help a guy can give the GM?

Something doesn't jive right now and the only thing I know for sure is that I trust Favre. I've watched Favre for well over a decade. From the little bit I've seen from Ted Thompson, he makes me feel like I can't trust him. I know Thompson knows talent. I know Thompson can draft and I know he is doing a great job with the salary cap. I don't know if Thompson is doing everything he can to make this team the best it can be right now. I don't know if the cap room Thompson is creating is being used properly. I think everything he is doing is geared towards the future, at the cost of the past 2 seasons and maybe this season. Creating cap room is only good if you use it to improve the team. I've been patient and a defender of Thompson, still now believing there wasnt' much in free agency this year for Thompson to go after and I did NOT want to see him overpay for some of the leftovers that were out there but if Thompson had a deal in place for Moss and Favre's money to help ease the financial ramifications then Thompson has no excuse. He will have purposely screwed Favre and the team and if I'm Favre.....and IF I believe that my boss lied to me and isn't trying to make the team better......then I'd speak up too. If you thought your boss had lied to you and if you thought, in the world of professional sports, that your boss wasn't trying to make the team better than you'd speak up too. Instead of ripping Favre for comments he may or may not have said I think all of us should be begging reporters to get more information on what really happened so we can find out if our GM is really trying to win.

This is a controversy but not the one people are caught up in. The controversy isn't Favre or even whether he asked for a trade. It's THompson. What is he doing and why is he doing it? What's going on behind the scenes with Thompson? Is he purposely driving Favre away? Did Thompson lie? What were Thompson's motives, if he did? What are the ramifications if Thompson is running the show in a less than ethical manner? Will players steer away from G.B. because of Thompson? Is Thompson really trying to improve this team and give players like Favre the tools to win? This is the controversy. It's not Favre. Get your heads out of your ass long enough to realize that Favre has, and still is, the ultimate team player! In this story he offerred his own money to get the deal done to help the team! He's always been like that. It's why the entire NFL loves the guy and wants to play with him. If something is up between Thompson and Favre then I'd be more prone to question Thompson than I would to question Favre. 15 years of watching the guy buys him some benefit of the doubt, in my mind. I'm not relieving Favre of any criticism, (I said the Walker people have a right to Rip Favre hard right now) but I am willing to give this some time before I start taking hard stances about how Favre is wrong and is hurting little kids. We don't know yet who is right or wrong.

The bottom line is that we need more information and I really hope the right questions are asked. This isn't about Favre being traded. This is about Thompson and what happened. We need to know what happened.

Damn,I must have missed that memo about you becoming God. I guess you do know everything, (well at least in your own mind). As far as the comment I made about public opinion being on Favre's side, may-be instead of trying to control what someone else's opinion is, you should actually go to all the Packer web-sites and try reading what other people have to say. Public sentiment is running heavily on Favre's side.

As far as me shutting up, that ain't gonna happen. I have every right to post my opinion as you do and although I can't be sure, I don't think anyone is holding a gun to your head forcing you to read what I post. I suggest you ignore me as I have ignored you for the most part for quite a while now. Life is short, and no sense in wasting anymore time. Have a nice life and I hope you get everything that you deserve.........

[gureski]

I was standing up for you, ya moron. You said people who couldn't see something were idiots (or something along those lines) and this other guy got his undies in a bunch. I told him to grow some thicker skin, much like I am right now. We need not grow righteous because someone called someone an idiot or stupid. Re-read my comments. I was standing up for you and saying that saying 'idiot' wasn't an example of going personal.

[pbmax]

Guaranteed money is enough reason for me to refuse to sign Moss.

The other reason would be that the Packers were being used to drive up the offer from the preferred team. There would seem to be a good chance that if the Packers offered the money, that Moss would have run back to New England for another offer, or continued to make demands.

Why would you want a guy on your team that has quit on previous teams whose fortunes were going better than the Packer's right now?

Why guarantee a salary to a player who has been frequently getting injured?

Why remove the ability to withold game checks from a malcontent by guaranteeing the salary?

Packnut is right, finding the next QB will likely be painful and a long process (although Patler listed Starr, Dickey and Majikowski earlier as evidence it isn't impossible to find good ones).

But why sully the reputation of the team for minimal gain and sacrificing money and draft picks?

At least K Rob cost nothing in picks and has a minimal salary.

This isn't about whether it was right to get Moss or not. The point about this situation is whether or not Thompson told Favre he wanted Moss, then made an offer for Moss, and finally killed the deal after it was a go. That's what we need to know. WHY did Thompson not make the deal, if all the pieces were in place to do the deal? That's what matters. What matters is whether or not Thompson purposely chose not to improve the team. What matters is whether the GM hung Favre out to dry. Favre is recruiting and offering his own money to finalize the deal. The Raiders and Pack agree on a pick. What's the hold up at that point? IF that all happened the way Favre paints it, don't you want to know why Thompson refused to do the deal? Isn't that the real issue?

[gureski]

It would appear, though we don't know for sure right now, that Thompson may have had a window to do the deal before N.E. came in and pushed the Packers aside. Favre is clear that the Packers had the chance. In 15 years in G.B. we've never seen him get this mad. Doesn't it make you want to know what happened? What if Thompson had a chance, as Favre is saying, to close the deal before N.E. got involved?

[Scott Campbell]

Re: Favre

Yes, but as history has proven time and time again, finding the next QB will be a very painful process.......

Proof????

I always assumed that Montana to Young was proof that it ain't always the case.

[PackerBlues]

This isn't about whether it was right to get Moss or not. The point about this situation is whether or not Thompson told Favre he wanted Moss, then made an offer for Moss, and finally killed the deal after it was a go. That's what we need to know. WHY did Thompson not make the deal, if all the pieces were in place to do the deal? That's what matters. What matters is whether or not Thompson purposely chose not to improve the team. What matters is whether the GM hung Favre out to dry. Favre is recruiting and offering his own money to finalize the deal. The Raiders and Pack agree on a pick. What's the hold up at that point? IF that all happened the way Favre paints it, don't you want to know why Thompson refused to do the deal? Isn't that the real issue?

gureski, very well put, and I agree. I am sure many others do too. If anyone needs proof that this is a matter that bothers many many Packer fans, go ahead and "google" the words FIRE TED THOMPSON.........see how many hits you come up with....you may be suprised by how many people are upset with this situation. I think people would be suprised by the number of petitions out there to fire Ted.

Right or wrong, there are a lot of people looking at Thompson far more closely than what they were previously, and yes, Favre's statements are the main reason for that. A number of people are very loyal to Thompson in these forums. And perhaps those people are in the majority in these forums. However, all around the Packer Nation, people are complaining about Thompson, and while the Thompson loyalist may be in the majority here in these forums, in the state of Wisconsin altogether, I think you are going to find yourselves in the minority.

[Scott Campbell]

Re: Memo

Damn,I must have missed that memo about you becoming God.

It looked a little fishy - backdated to 33BC.

[pbmax]

Possibly, but it makes more sense for the Raiders to wait as long as possible to attract more offers. And you never know how the draft will unfold and someone could get antsy after the WRs leave the board.

I don't think it was in the interest of the Raiders to do anything early.

It would appear, though we don't know for sure right now, that Thompson may have had a window to do the deal before N.E. came in and pushed the Packers aside. Favre is clear that the Packers had the chance. In 15 years in G.B. we've never seen him get this mad. Doesn't it make you want to know what happened? What if Thompson had a chance, as Favre is saying, to close the deal before N.E. got involved?

[PackerBlues]

Possibly, but it makes more sense for the Raiders to wait as long as possible to attract more offers. And you never know how the draft will unfold and someone could get antsy after the WRs leave the board.

I don't think it was in the interest of the Raiders to do anything early.

I agree whole heartedly. It would have been in the best interest of the Packers Offense if the Packers organization had pushed harder for the trade though.

[MadtownPacker]

How many playoff chances did Green Bay give Favre? How many winning seasons? It's not like he played most of his career without legitimate playoff opportunities. He played in two Super Bowls, and had reasonably good chances to get to others. He even had the chance to be "the guy" on decent, but not great or favored teams which he could have carried through the playoffs with HOF performances. Several times he was not up to the task.

It's not like he hasn't had his chances. many players would be thrilled with half the chances Favre has had. Just because the last two seasons have been down years, I don't feel sorry one bit for Favre. He has had many, many chances. Yes, the team has had to rebuild. They had an amazing run. Just because it happens to coincide with the end of Favre's career doesn't make it an injustice to him.

OK, Im gonna give this a shot...

At the same time can't it be said about how many "chances" Favre gave the Pack? How many times was the team around him not "up to task" to get the job done (example: 2002)? Yet he rain or shine, good game or bad game he has been the constant in a time when QBs are gone thru like paper plates. He deserves as much credit for the last 17 years of success as much as anyone.

I know he shouldnt have spoke up but dammit, this guy deserves some slack. You guys raining down on him have your points but at the same time dont we all want a winner?

Favre helps make the Packers a winner. Love him or hate him that cant be denied.

As stupid as this sounds, Bearman is right. Favre on last years bears SB team = a SB win. Grossman on last years Packers team = 3-13 or something like that.

Get ready cuz that is likely what is in store after this season.

[MadtownPacker]

Gureski, I wish I had your writing skillz to express what Im thinking. Great posts and great points top to bottom.

[gureski]

Gureski, I wish I had your writing skillz to express what Im thinking. Great posts and great points top to bottom.

And people thought I only cared about ripping Craig Nall....hmmmph..

[Scott Campbell]

Gureski, I wish I had your writing skillz to express what Im thinking. Great posts and great points top to bottom.

And people thought I only cared about ripping Craig Nall....hmmmph..

First he blows some smoke up your ass. And now he's going to PM you asking your to write some articles.