You gotta go deep in the NFL - Packers?

[PackerBlues]

If TT only finds "a few" players in 3 years of drafts, that would make him as awful as Mike Sherman at talent evaluation.

And now that it's years later, Sherman's drafts can be appropriately judged. The same cannot be said for TT's drafts. Most of the guys are rookies and 2nd year players.

If anything, a few good players emerging earlier than can be expected is a positive sign for TT.

Yes, and now that its a few years later, we can also see that Sherman kept his teams in the playoff hunt, and "TT" has not. Two different styles of management with two very different results.

[the_idle_threat]

Sherman kept his teams in the playoff hunt due to the players and cap flexibility he inherited from Ron Wolf. TT hasn't had that luxury on either count.

[The Leaper]

Sherman kept his teams in the playoff hunt due to the players and cap flexibility he inherited from Ron Wolf. TT hasn't had that luxury on either count.

Sherman never kept his team in the hunt...Favre did. Sherman only crushed his team's playoff chances by making horrific gameday decisions such as the ones in Philly.

[PackerBlues]

Sherman kept his teams in the playoff hunt due to the players and cap flexibility he inherited from Ron Wolf. TT hasn't had that luxury on either count.

That is such a crock of shit, that I dont even know where to start. It also seems to be the favorite cop-out of every TT lover in these forums.

Thompson inherited just as good of a team as Sherman did. Sherman inherited an aging O-line just like Thompson. He had to work around Earl "The Pearl" Dotson, and his back problems, Frank Winters age, and Flanigans back problems. Lets not forget, Clifton and Taucher were rookies at that time, not pro bowl players. So dont go brushing that off as Ron Wolf being a genius and giving Sherman everything he needed to work with, because you are just over simplifiying things to fit your own personal theories.

At WR, Sherman had two aging players in Freeman and Shroeder. Otherwise, he had Donald Driver, who at that time was nothing more than a 7th round draft pick with two starts under his belt in two seasons. Again, not the Pro Bowl player of today, wich would make your argument credible if he had been, but he was in fact just a raw talent that Sherman had the smarts to keep around.

At RB Sherman inherited Dorsey Levens, again, an aging player who's time in the NFL was pretty much over with. Then he also had Ahman Green. Again, not a Pro Bowler. Just a guy that had a history of fumbling. Sherman to his credit kept him around. If Sherman was the idiot that you claim that he was, Green would have been cut long before Thompson showed up.

The defense was an ever changing thing under Sherman. He inherited an aging D-line as well. With Gilbert Brown and Santana Dotson at the end of their careers, he was left with Vonnie Holliday, a soon to be Free Agent, Cletidus Hunt, a guy with two years of experience, and KGB, who played in seven games in 2000, his rookie year, primarily as a situational pass rusher and on special teams, after spending the first six weeks of the season on the Packers practice squad. Not exactly a guy your gonna bet the farm on at that point of his career.

At LB, Sherman inherited Diggs, Harris, and Nate Wayne. Diggs was a 4th round pick from the year before, with 24 tackles under his belt from playing in 13 games. Harris and Wayne.........again, aging players at the end of their careers.

You paint such a rosy picture of the team that Sherman inherited. The facts just do not back it up though, do they?

[Fred's Slacks]

I don't like to rip on Mike Sherman because I think he is a good man and I believe he gave his best effort to make this team as good as possible. That said I don't understand how people can actually defend him as a GM. He's been available for two offseasons and he still is neither a GM nor a Head coach so that should tell you something. Some have tried to defend his drafts saying they "aren't that bad". Maybe not, but they weren't good. Sure he wasn't afraid to take a risk but he got burned far to often.

As for Thompson, I am not ready to anoint him savior yet, but I do like the direction the team is headed. We are young and have lots of potential. We don't over value other team's players and we (hopefully - time will tell) draft well. This is the same formula the Pats, Eagles, and Steelers used when they were building their rosters just before they all became prenial winners. I am willing to give him more time.

And as for the comment saying that the team would like to see him go out and spend money on players, that's only true for a hand full of guys. What about the guys whose jobs they'd be taking. It doesn't speak much for TT's cofidence in them. Do you think Morency would have had as great an offseason if we had traded our draft away for AP or Burner Turner? Do you think Blackmon and Dendy would have worked as hard if we had signed Nate Clements to a mega deal? Yes those would have been upgrades in talent but at what cost? Instead of their talent, we have a group of young guys who are motivated to improve because they feel this organization has confidence in them. It may work, it may not, but I am excited to find out.

[PackerBlues]

I certainly can appeciate your point of view Fred's Slacks. In all honesty, how many players picked up through the draft actually make it in the NFL? People that defend Thompson usually tend to rip on Sherman. During Shermans tenure as GM, I was one of them. Looking back however, I have come to the conclusion that Sherman didnt do that bad of a job altogether as a GM. His way of doing things was the exact opposite of Thompsons it seems. Perhaps in a few more years, I will look back at what Thompson has accomplished and change my views on him as well. However, again if you read my previous post, Sherman did not inherit that great of a team. A lot of the players he inherited went on to be very good starters and pro bowlers, but they were mostly rookies and raw talent that he and his coaching staff helped to mold into the great players that they became. chances are that many of these guys never would have had a chance to develope if they had played for any other team.
Sherman used the draft to win NOW, he took risks in Free Agency and with trades to win NOW. Looking back at his record, nobody can argue that he did a good job of fielding winning teams. The same cannot be said of Thompson. 3 years on the job, and we are still waiting.

[Fred's Slacks]

I agree that Sherman did well with the players he inherited. Despite a few questionable game time decisions I always felt that he was a good if not very good coach. He just made too many mistakes in the form of bad signings/re-signings and draft day trade ups and that resulted in filling our roster with other teams rejects.

I was disappointed that Thompson and Sherman couldn't work together because I thought they could be a good combination. It's not suprising that they couldn't because of their difference in philosophy but if one had to go, I guess I was glad it was Sherman. He had his shot and couldn't get it done. Now I am willing to give Thompson his.

[BallHawk]

Haven't seen you around before, Fred. Welcome to the forum.

[packinpatland]

With 3 posts to your name, you are a newbie, Welcome!
FYI, MZiggy has 6085 posts and will never be equaled.

[MJZiggy]

I've been caught up to before. Welcome to the forum Fred. You will find M2 to be a very hot topic around here as I'm sure he his in most forums. He had his time, but I'm kinda likin' the whole "Zen of M3" they've got going on up there right now. They seem focused and determined. We shall see where it gets them.

[Fred's Slacks]

Thanks for the welcome. I've been a reader for a while now just never posted before. I have been impressed with the knowledge of some of the posters here. Hope I can add something.

[Bretsky]

Thanks for the welcome. I've been a reader for a while now just never posted before. I have been impressed with the knowledge of some of the posters here. Hope I can add something.

Welcome to Packerrats Freds Slacks

[the_idle_threat]

"Fred's Slacks is a Winner!"

Welcome to the forum, Fred's Slacks, and I must say I agree with you on all counts.

In response to other comments ...

I am not a Sherman hater---I just think he was a bad GM. He was a pretty good coach---especially in the area of developing and motivating talent. But I think he needed someone else to get him the talent.

Left to his own devices, I think Sherman outsmarted himself when drafting players, believing he could reach and motivate physically talented guys like Donnell Washington, Joey Thomas and James Lee who simply were not football players. Many people view B.J. Sander as the defining draft pick of the Sherman era (and it was pretty darn bad), but I think it's James Lee---the guy whose own reaction to being drafted was "Holy shit---I got drafted?!?!?" Sherman traded up 18 spots to get him in the 5th round. Source.

I am not a TT lover---I just think he inherited a team that was virtually devoid of young talent on both sides of the ball. Sherman at least inherited from Ron Wolf all of the guys who became his league-leading offense, except for Javon Walker. (What was that about a blind squirrel ... ?) TT didn't have that luxury, because Sherman gave away too many draft picks, and most of the picks he did make failed.

IMO, TT has done the necessary job of restocking the young talent, and I like the direction the team is headed. I'm hopeful for the future---including the near future. If guys fall on their faces and good things fail to materialize, then TT will be judged as harshly as Sherman (the GM) was. There will be plenty of time for that, but I think now is too soon.

[MJZiggy]

Why does everyone seem to think that if you like what TT is doing, then you must necessarily hate Sherman, or if you support anything Sherman ever did then you hate TT? Would it be terrible to see the differences between them and what each brought to the table?

[Bretsky]

Why does everyone seem to think that if you like what TT is doing, then you must necessarily hate Sherman, or if you support anything Sherman ever did then you hate TT? Would it be terrible to see the differences between them and what each brought to the table?

Why are you up at 4 in the morning ?