For those that argued that Longwell didn't have a weak leg

[gureski]

I saw this today while sifting through footballguys.com:

PK Longwell Improves Distance
Kevin Seifert, Star Tribune -

http://www.startribune.com/vikings/story/1221920.html

Placekicker Ryan Longwell did not stand pat after averaging an NFL-worst 59.1 yards per kickoff last season. Longwell changed his offseason workout routine, putting a greater emphasis on endurance while also tweaking his technique.

"I'm in my 11th year," Longwell said. "You can get in a comfort zone in this league, and you don't want to be there. So I figured it's time to throw a wrinkle or two in and see if it pays off."

Special teams coordinator Paul Ferraro said, if nothing else, Longwell has been getting more consistent distance on his kickoffs during the first round of offseason practices.

"I think good things are going to happen this year with his kickoffs," Ferraro said. "At times last year he did a nice job, but he wasn't as consistent as we would have liked. But he's definitely done some good things here in the last two weeks."

end quotes

I know he's not a Packer anymore but when Longwell left there were a lot of bitter fans who weren't listening to logic about Longwell's abilities. I was one person who was railed on for saying Longwell had a weak leg and that his kick-offs sucked. This seems to prove what I was saying. He was the worst in the league last year, on kick-offs, and he kicked in a dome. Do you know what that does to a teams ability to win the field position game? Longwell wasn't worth the money anymore. He's past his prime.

[packers11]

I was so pissed when they let longwell go... but looking at the stats, T.T. was right, I was wrong...

Looking back at it ... I'm glad it happened the way it did...

Kickoffs
Rayner Vs Longwell G KO Avg TB Ret Ret Avg
2006 Minnesota Vikings 16 66 59.3 3 58 23.2
2006 Green Bay Packers 16 72 65.1 11 60 22.5

[packinpatland]

I didn't have any feelings one way or the other when he got let go, I was more upset that he went with the Vikings.
I do remember no being happpy when his kickoffs seldom went deep.
As far as field goals, he was right there.

[oregonpackfan]

I agree that field position is a crucial part of the pro game. When your team consistently gives up 10-15 yards of field position each kickoff, it does have a negative impact on the game.

[run pMc]

Up until his last season in GB, I thought he was an accurate and clutch FG/PAT guy with below average KO distance. In a cold, windy, outdoor stadium, that's an OK tradeoff, but not for Adam Vinatari (sp?) money.
With nobody in-house to replace him (until they picked up Rayner) I wasn't thrilled with seeing him leave -- to the VIKINGS of all teams -- but I didn't expect him to set the league on fire, either. I'm not 100% sold on Rayner yet, but he clearly has a bigger leg. The camp battle with Crosby will be interesting.

[KYPack]

Up until his last season in GB, I thought he was an accurate and clutch FG/PAT guy with below average KO distance. In a cold, windy, outdoor stadium, that's an OK tradeoff, but not for Adam Vinatari (sp?) money.
With nobody in-house to replace him (until they picked up Rayner) I wasn't thrilled with seeing him leave -- to the VIKINGS of all teams -- but I didn't expect him to set the league on fire, either. I'm not 100% sold on Rayner yet, but he clearly has a bigger leg. The camp battle with Crosby will be interesting.

Rayner set an obscure unofficial record last season. He recorded the longest hang time ever clocked on a kick-off. I don't have all the gory details, but it made me think the guy has potential.

[packinpatland]

Up until his last season in GB, I thought he was an accurate and clutch FG/PAT guy with below average KO distance. In a cold, windy, outdoor stadium, that's an OK tradeoff, but not for Adam Vinatari (sp?) money.
With nobody in-house to replace him (until they picked up Rayner) I wasn't thrilled with seeing him leave -- to the VIKINGS of all teams -- but I didn't expect him to set the league on fire, either. I'm not 100% sold on Rayner yet, but he clearly has a bigger leg. The camp battle with Crosby will be interesting.

Rayner set an obscure unofficial record last season. He recorded the longest hang time ever clocked on a kick-off. I don't have all the gory details, but it made me think the guy has potential.

Now why would those details be 'gory', did the ball impale someone?

[Packnut]

Kick-Offs

Packer cover teams have been terrible for the most part for quite a while now which compounded the short KO's by Longwell. A good cover team can make up for in-adequate leg strength. If you examine kick return stats, we really were not that much better with the guy we have now.

I'd rather have a guy who's automatic getting 3 than a guy who boots it in the end zone. Rayner missed a few key kicks and can only be classified as a failure as far as FG's go unless you approve of being average.

I was all for not giving Longwell the big money but not due to his kick-offs but rather because of his previously bad year kicking fg's.

[Creepy]

I can't agree with you Packnut, Longwell was never as good as everybody claims. he made some kicks at the end but also missed some. The difference is that when your a winning team nobody cares if you miss one or two, but when the team is losing every kick is scrutinized.

I also remember in his lastyear when GB could have tied/won (can't rememebr which) and Longwell gavethe no-go sign to Sherman ona 45 or 48 yard FG. During the same game the opponents kciker had hit from that distance into the same wind. At that time I thought it was time to get rid of Longwell. There are only two reason you don't even try:
1. You know you can't make it
2. It hurts your stats in a FA year.

Either way it spelled that GB needed to get rid of Longwell. The competition wil be good with Mosby, but IMHO Rayney will bethe kicker again this year. he has a full season of kicking on the NFL and I think he will have the better accuaracy.

[gureski]

I can't agree with you Packnut, Longwell was never as good as everybody claims. he made some kicks at the end but also missed some. The difference is that when your a winning team nobody cares if you miss one or two, but when the team is losing every kick is scrutinized.

I also remember in his lastyear when GB could have tied/won (can't rememebr which) and Longwell gavethe no-go sign to Sherman ona 45 or 48 yard FG. During the same game the opponents kciker had hit from that distance into the same wind. At that time I thought it was time to get rid of Longwell. There are only two reason you don't even try:
1. You know you can't make it
2. It hurts your stats in a FA year.

Either way it spelled that GB needed to get rid of Longwell. The competition wil be good with Mosby, but IMHO Rayney will bethe kicker again this year. he has a full season of kicking on the NFL and I think he will have the better accuaracy.

I can confirm that this happened. I recall reading about it the day after the Packers lost a game in which all the fans were wondering why the hell Sherman didn't kick a FG late in the game. It turned out that Longwell said he couldn't make it so Sherman didn't try it. Longwell's leg for FG kicks had substantially decreased over the years too. It wasn't just his kick offs. He doesn't have a strong leg anymore. He never really had a booming leg to begin with. What's easier?

[The Leaper]

Very few kickers are worth big money deals. Unless you are a championship caliber team, the money is better spent elsewhere.

Longwell certainly wasn't worth a big deal...while he was an above-average kicker in terms of reliability, his leg strength was waning and he was a liability on kickoffs.

Rayner has a strong leg, but his reliability and accuracy are still in question, and I would expect that Rayner is going to have to be significantly better than Crosby in order to keep his job...otherwise Thompson would not have selected a kicker in the draft. The only way Rayner is the kicker in 2007 is if Crosby falls on his face or Rayner suddenly kicks much better than he did in 2006.

[Packnut]

Longwell

I can't agree with you Packnut, Longwell was never as good as everybody claims. he made some kicks at the end but also missed some. The difference is that when your a winning team nobody cares if you miss one or two, but when the team is losing every kick is scrutinized.

I also remember in his lastyear when GB could have tied/won (can't rememebr which) and Longwell gavethe no-go sign to Sherman ona 45 or 48 yard FG. During the same game the opponents kciker had hit from that distance into the same wind. At that time I thought it was time to get rid of Longwell. There are only two reason you don't even try:
1. You know you can't make it
2. It hurts your stats in a FA year.

Either way it spelled that GB needed to get rid of Longwell. The competition wil be good with Mosby, but IMHO Rayney will bethe kicker again this year. he has a full season of kicking on the NFL and I think he will have the better accuaracy.

The statement that Longwell was never really that good is just plain wrong. Look at his stats. The guy was above 80% damn near every year. He was automatic on extra points. Can't say that about Rayner. Your letting the last year Longwell was here, tarnish your judgement. Ryan made a ton of pressure kicks to win games for us.

Yes he was/is a primma-donna. He never took the blame and always used kicking in GB as an excuse. Still, his career stats in GB prove just how good a kicker he was.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Longwell has been good FG kicker every year but one or two. He used to be average on kickoffs... maybe even slightly above considering the climate in Green Bay. He's pretty much always been clutch. He's still a very good FG kicker. His kickoffs have dropped off to well below average. He's still clutch.

[BallHawk]

Rayner set an obscure unofficial record last season. He recorded the longest hang time ever clocked on a kick-off. I don't have all the gory details, but it made me think the guy has potential.

The time was 5.12 seconds. The previous record was 4.64 set by a kicker for the Tampa Bay Bucs.

Here's the link of the Dr. Z article if anyone is interested.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/dr_z/10/11/kick.record/1.html

[Merlin]

It runs in my mind that earlier in Longwell's career the tried to get him to get longer kickoffs. All it did was screw up his field goal kicking so they backed off it.