The Official ULTIMATE debate thread on TT!

[Bretsky]

I consider myself a fan, although not a fanatic (See Ballhawk). I was considering going with "other", but with Bretsky and Packnut going with other, it wouldn't have made sense for me to do so.

I applaud TT for firing Sherman. Although he could have won a lot of games with Sherman, he was correct in recognizing that Sherman was not going to get the Packers to the Super Bowl.

I actually singed up for antri because of my bias, but I acknowledge that I'm probably other. With Packnut and Wist signing up for other, I say this ballot box is being fixed !

[LaFours]

I'm sure most on here would consider me an "anti-fan", but I'm an "other"...

As I've said, I think TT is a good talent evaluator, but he's very rigid in his approach, too rigid for my liking. Add to that his inexplicable approach to dealing with Walker - Wahle was at least justifiable in cap terms, even if I didn't agree with his stance or the end result.

Ultimately, I think TT is going to be one of these GM's who knows the game, knows good talent when he sees it, but ultimately is missing that intangible ingredient that would allow him to deviate from the master plan when necessary, and make possible the fleshing out of the roster with enough talent to win it all.

I fear that TT's approach will always be "win tomorrow"... meaning we will never "win now"; and, since AR is soon to be our starting QB, "win tomorrow" doesn't hold much promise either.

I'm a fan. How well TT transitions from a GM with the "win tomorrow" attitude and into a GM with the "win now" attitude will be the defining factor in his success in my opinion...that and his timing.

[Packnut]

TT

I consider myself a fan, although not a fanatic (See Ballhawk). I was considering going with "other", but with Bretsky and Packnut going with other, it wouldn't have made sense for me to do so.

I applaud TT for firing Sherman. Although he could have won a lot of games with Sherman, he was correct in recognizing that Sherman was not going to get the Packers to the Super Bowl.

I actually singed up for antri because of my bias, but I acknowledge that I'm probably other. With Packnut and Wist signing up for other, I say this ballot box is being fixed !

Well, if this offense struggles at the start, you'll see me change to "anti-TT" in a heart-beat. 2 years of watching the same crap is enough for me.

I WANT SOME OFFENSE!

[Zool]

I consider myself a fan, although not a fanatic (See Ballhawk). I was considering going with "other", but with Bretsky and Packnut going with other, it wouldn't have made sense for me to do so.

I applaud TT for firing Sherman. Although he could have won a lot of games with Sherman, he was correct in recognizing that Sherman was not going to get the Packers to the Super Bowl.

I actually singed up for antri because of my bias, but I acknowledge that I'm probably other. With Packnut and Wist signing up for other, I say this ballot box is being fixed !

I think being 100% anti is being short sighted. He's obviously building the team from within, but too slowly for some. There's moves he should have made but didnt get done for whatever reason, but the man seems to be a good talent evaluator.

His aggressiveness, or lack there of, 2-3 years from now will be his undoing IMO. He will get the team to the brink but we'll tread water for a couple years at 10-6. That is of course unless FA stays as ugly as it is now. I fully expect salaries to balloon in the next 2 years because of the increased cap space available. That should make for some good FA lists in 2009 and 2010.

[woodbuck27]

What a bunch of candy ass's. Four other posters here voted as anti TT and hunched under their keyboards.

I'm clearly anti TT. Why would that be?

Ted Thompson has produced a Packer team that has a record of 12-20 since his arrival. That just plain sucks when you have a QB as good as Brett Favre.

The reason for this disaster can be seen through the history of injuries we suffered in 2005, and 'the fact' that we had a lousy OL then, and no real recovery since.

If you study the sack to sack ratio bet. our DL and OL we have one of the best in our favor in the NFL but alot of that has to go to the fact that Favre is still mobile out of the pocket and otherwise very hard to sack. How often he had to roll out of the pocket was dictated by the fact he was rushed alot and that means he wasn't able to concentarate on checkdowns.

We must see that result (or improved OL play) in this season or we play no better. We don't have even have the luxery of the talent and experience we had last season on offense, having lost Ahman Green (and his blocking ability and overall leadership and savvy), and the limited as it was use of David Martin and William Henderson (and his leadership).

TT has decided to put his time and the money into re-establishing strength in the lines. He has done a decent job there, but the only person he's added with any credibility is Ryan Pickett, who didn't exactly turn it on last season. He certainly took awhile to wake up to the system.

The best addition that TT has given the Packers in FA is C. Woodson and he's by far the best. Then I'll go with Pickett. Otherwise, TT has demonstrated little talent in acquiring FA's, yet people here will argue that he is an excellent talent evaluator?

UHH??

He's had a bundle of money available to him, and he brings in only two decent talents and both of these on defense. TT has done diddly to support Favre and the offensive side of the ball.

How could that be, if he's responsible to the Packers financially and as a GM with skills to evaluate talent, and to use all that, to ensure that we wern't embarassed on the scoreboard or record wise?

I don't like TT because he hasn't the skills to stand up and be counted. He has little respect for the fan and he has ignored the needs and skills of Brett Favre to enable the Packers to have any real opportunity to win.

People here will laud him with praise when any Packer fan with half a clue would have had the sense to draft an AJ Hawk; but a Justin Harrel (with his injury history) when we had to address more important needs all over the team on both sides of the ball? Come on !! That was a poor decision for our needs now and our future with the risk evident in Harrel's injury history.

Ted Thompson acts in so many ways like an egotistic coward. This is his team people say. Well for the sake of GOD why is he so invisable?

He has an excellent sense in the draft people say. Yet, TT continues to supply us with a watered down product. He's not drafting as in baseball to fill a farm system, but to feed the needs of the Green Bay Packers.

That means to get the best players available per pick in that draft. Quantity will never be better than quality in the long run.

The ego of this man is overwhelming at times. He allows that our RB's are just fine, and that also speaks for our TE's. That only explains the fact he ignored our team in these areas in FA.

People here are willing to allow TT this season and the result better be impressive or they will no longer toss their support blindly behind him.

For all that is sensible do you really believe that our team will be prepared to win in 2007? Has Ted Thompson paved the way for only that result? Has he spent the CAP money wisely? Did he do all he could to attract talent to the team?

or did he act like the shifty, bad assed (cocky). lazy and cheap with the purse strings GM that I see?

How much loyality did he show to Brett Favre and to you as a Packer fan?

I certainly don't admire Ted Thompson, and I am sure I will see the day his ass is sent packing out of Green Bay?

He's a mere myth and alot of you here have created him.

Go on dreaming!!

[the_idle_threat]

I am a fan of TT. I like the young talent he has brought to the team, which desperately needed it. I also agree with his apparent belief that focusing on the development of young players is a better way to go than filling most holes with old guys and castoffs from other teams.

If the kids develop and it works, you have a young cohesive team with a long, bright future, kinda like the Brewers right now.

If they fail and it doesn't work, well, then I guess I won't be as much of a fan of TT. Bring in the next guy.

[MadtownPacker]

DAMNNNNN!!! Woody just kicked everyone's asses!

But your post tells why the team is looking up instead of down ole Woody. The part about 12-20 is what I mean.

In his first season he was 4-12 but with a HC that was not his pick and a team that was hurting badly. Lots of things went bad like traitor walker getting hurt, TMurph's career ending, Favre spraying the ball all over the field, etc. TT stuck to his guns and let the draft provide for the roster. The result was the worse season in over a decade.

Then in his second year he goes 8-8 with a HC of his choice, a roster full of his draft picks, including the #4 overall pick who became the sure thing he was hyped as being predraft, and a Favre that restrained himself (with M3's help) and played within the system. Some of the wins came the hard way and some of the losses where terrible but the end result was a younger, faster, stronger team then had been seen for some time. The way the season ended in the thick of the playoff chase and stomping the bears good left hunger and confidence in the hearts and minds of the player young and old.

So 4-12 becomes 8-8. Now what will 8-8 become? 12-4 would make the overall record for the TT era 24-24. Maybe that won't happen but I say it's better then 8-8 in '07 and that there my Canandian compadre is what I call improvement!

[Packnut]

traitor

DAMNNNNN!!! Woody just kicked everyone's asses!

But your post tells why the team is looking up instead of down ole Woody. The part about 12-20 is what I mean.

In his first season he was 4-12 but with a HC that was not his pick and a team that was hurting badly. Lots of things went bad like traitor walker getting hurt, TMurph's career ending, Favre spraying the ball all over the field, etc. TT stuck to his guns and let the draft provide for the roster. The result was the worse season in over a decade.

Then in his second year he goes 8-8 with a HC of his choice, a roster full of his draft picks, including the #4 overall pick who became the sure thing he was hyped as being predraft, and a Favre that restrained himself (with M3's help) and played within the system. Some of the wins came the hard way and some of the losses where terrible but the end result was a younger, faster, stronger team then had been seen for some time. The way the season ended in the thick of the playoff chase and stomping the bears good left hunger and confidence in the hearts and minds of the player young and old.

So 4-12 becomes 8-8. Now what will 8-8 become? 12-4 would make the overall record for the TT era 24-24. Maybe that won't happen but I say it's better then 8-8 in '07 and that there my Canandian compadre is what I call improvement!

Walker the traitor? Wake up Mad and smell the coffee my friend. The only ones who were betrayed were the Packer fans. Walker got what he deserved and we got BELOW market value thanks to Teddy's ingenious trading skills. And before anyone agrues that point with me, look at the Branch trade by comparison.

What I find hilarious is that you and everyone else who has bad-mouthed Walker for wanting more money would do the same damn thing. We ALL want more money. It's human nature pal.

Tell ya what. Check his stats after this season and then compare them and his contract with other similiar WR's. You'll find that for his production in comparison to others, his contract is cheap and how bad TT screwed this one up. In the history of GM screw ups, this one ranks right up there with the best of them.

This would be a different offense with Walker and Driver and instead of expecting another 8-8 season, we'd be discussing an NFC championship.

[packrat]

Walker would get us to the NFC championship? It didn't happen when Sherman had him. And, if TT had caved to Walker, how many other malcontents would be distracting the team. Instead, TT rewards actual performance from Driver and Harris, so the whole team gets the message that it is getting the job done instead of mere potential that is going to earn more money. TT inherited a team that was as gutted as the team Ron Wolf inherited and it will take as long to turn it around. Quantity or quality? Sherman demonstrated the folloy of trading away draft choices to get "quality". Once the top five guys in the draft are gone, it is a crap shoot and doubling the number of lottery tickets you hold doubles your chances of winning the lottery. Look at last year. Everyone was pissing his pants over Hodge, but an unkown like Moll contributed more than Hodge. TT did goof by keeping Sherman for one year too long. Look how quickly MM improved Favre's performance by simply letting him know he is accountable like every other player. But, TT and MM both learn from their mistakes which is the only way anyone can reach the top of their profession. In a couple of years maybe some of the posters here will learn their TT bashing was a mistake, too.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Walker would get us to the NFC championship? It didn't happen when Sherman had him.

The defense has been upgraded since it took a dip in Sherman's last couple years. Walker, or maybe even Randy Moss, would make this team a lot more competitive. The defense and the offensive line look competitive for post season, they are really hurting for play makers on offense.

And, if TT had caved to Walker, how many other malcontents would be distracting the team.

Walker didn't become a malcontent until Thompson refused to negotiate with his agent. Now, you can argue this was the right thing to do - but then how did it make sense for Thompson to massively upgrade Driver's contract before it was due? The answer is that TT made a bad choice with Walker, correctd the error of his ways dealing with DRiver.

[RashanGary]

Re: traitor

Tell ya what. Check his stats after this season and then compare them and his contract with other similiar WR's. You'll find that for his production in comparison to others, his contract is cheap and how bad TT screwed this one up. In the history of GM screw ups, this one ranks right up there with the best of them.

Well then clearly you should be a man as Woodbuck indicated and vote anti-TT.


Walker had a pretty good season last year. He's 30 years old now. He will likely lose his speed and explosion over the next 2-3 years. It's not like he traded away Brett Favre in his 2nd year to see him go on to be a top 10 all time QB over his 18-year career. It's not like he drafted a bust with his #5 pick. He lost a guy who has half of a career left (if he can stay healthy in his 30's).

Bad move; Yes, but to say "In the history of GM screw-ups, this one ranks right up there with the best of them" reeks of a person trying to exaggerate his view after a whole room of people voted against his line of thinking.

You're views are clearly anti-Thompson and you see bad things for this Packer team as long as Thompson is in charge or so your last few months of statements would indicate. Well, you're acting like spineless senator, flip flopping your vote with whatever the current polls indicate. When FA was at large and the people were impatient, you were loud and strong. Now, as the off season progresses and all of our good young players showed up stronger and in the best shape of their careers you are quite and "in the middle". Woody is at least man enough to stick by his views.

It's plain and simple. You took a side. I took a side. If the Packers are good, you lose credibility because your view is that Thompson has made some of the biggest blunders of any GM in history. Your view is that he has been stagnant and inactive as a GM. I believe he's first and foremost a good talent evaluator. I believe his views on value and opportunism instead of spending just to say you spent. Conservatism doesn’t stop at government. It carries to business and into building anything with a budget including a football team. You are a weak-spined flip flopper and your ship is sinking fast. If the Packers are good, all of this "Anti Thompson" rhetoric that you have spewed is going to be in every ones memories and everyone here will have less respect for your view. If the Packers suck, the same will happen to me. Stick by your guns and be a man along the way though. It's pathetic to watch, really.

[MadtownPacker]

Re: traitor

Walker the traitor? Wake up Mad and smell the coffee my friend. The only ones who were betrayed were the Packer fans. Walker got what he deserved and we got BELOW market value thanks to Teddy's ingenious trading skills. And before anyone agrues that point with me, look at the Branch trade by comparison.

What I find hilarious is that you and everyone else who has bad-mouthed Walker for wanting more money would do the same damn thing. We ALL want more money. It's human nature pal.

Tell ya what. Check his stats after this season and then compare them and his contract with other similiar WR's. You'll find that for his production in comparison to others, his contract is cheap and how bad TT screwed this one up. In the history of GM screw ups, this one ranks right up there with the best of them.

This would be a different offense with Walker and Driver and instead of expecting another 8-8 season, we'd be discussing an NFC championship.

Well I think Woody is right, you need to man up and vote anti-TT.

As for being a traitor, not sure how you define it but IMO saying he would never play in GB again very much qualifies him as a traitor.

If you read my post I never once bad mouthed him for wanting more money. In fact I said he should get it and similar to what BRETT FAVRE said, walker went about it the wrong way. Notice Karma paid his ass back. So you gotta get your story straight there playboy.

Since 2007 hasn't happened yet I'm gonna have to compare walker in 2006 to... Greg Jennings! A rookie who didn't even play well the last half of the 2006 season and yet still put up #s equal to traitor baby maricon walker #s!

As for the last part about the team being a contender if walker was here, well I have to agree. The offense would be better. But that is not just cuz of him. That would be becuase Favre was chucking him the ball and DD was occupying DBs also.

So don't speak out of pocket about my thoughts on walker. I was super pissed it didn't work out either but my loyalty remains with the Packers, unlike Mr "Pay me even though my kneee is shot to hell" walker.

[Packnut]

Re: traitor

Tell ya what. Check his stats after this season and then compare them and his contract with other similiar WR's. You'll find that for his production in comparison to others, his contract is cheap and how bad TT screwed this one up. In the history of GM screw ups, this one ranks right up there with the best of them.

Well then clearly you should be a man as Woodbuck indicated and vote anti-TT.


Walker had a pretty good season last year. He's 30 years old now. He will likely lose his speed and explosion over the next 2-3 years. It's not like he traded away Brett Favre in his 2nd year to see him go on to be a top 10 all time QB over his 18-year career. It's not like he drafted a bust with his #5 pick. He lost a guy who has half of a career left (if he can stay healthy in his 30's).

Bad move; Yes, but to say "In the history of GM screw-ups, this one ranks right up there with the best of them" reeks of a person trying to exaggerate his view after a whole room of people voted against his line of thinking.

You're views are clearly anti-Thompson and you see bad things for this Packer team as long as Thompson is in charge or so your last few months of statements would indicate. Well, you're acting like spineless senator, flip flopping your vote with whatever the current polls indicate. When FA was at large and the people were impatient, you were loud and strong. Now, as the off season progresses and all of our good young players showed up stronger and in the best shape of their careers you are quite and "in the middle" Woody is at least man enough to stick by his views.

It's plain and simple. You took a side. I took a side. If the Packers are good, you lose credibility because your view is that Thompson has made some of the biggest blunders of any GM in history. Your view is that he has been stagnant and inactive as a GM. I believe he's first and foremost a good talent evaluator. I believe his views on value and opportunism instead of spending just to say you spent. Conservatism doesn’t stop at government. It carries to business and into building anything with a budget including a football team. You are a weak-spined flip flopper and your ship is sinking fast. If the Packers are good, all of this "Anti Thompson" rhetoric that you have spewed is going to be in every ones memories and everyone here will have less respect for your view. If the Packers suck, the same will happen to me. Stick by your guns and be a man along the way though. It's pathetic to watch, really.

What's pathetic is you've never made one post here that has any FACTS to back it up. It's kool-aid drinking blind worship crap. According to you, every Packer player is a pro bowl guy.

Your just like a woman, you only understand what fits your opinion. I have stated several times, that Thompson has done some good things. I dis-agree with some of the things he's done. Being "anti TT" would mean I'd dis-agree with most of the things he's done. How hard is that to understand?

Now you wanna talk about spineless? Look in the mirror. Teddy does no wrong in your eyes. You except every move he makes without question. Loyalty does'nt mean brain-less.

The problem with people like you is you talk nothing but shit but have no balls to back it up. I'll put my money where my keyboard is. Walker will be a top 8 WR this season barring any major injury. I'll make it easy on ya. $20 is nothing. Put up or shut up. It's that simple. Why is it Driver is older than Walker but yet he's a stud and Walker is gonna lose it when he's that age? More stupid bs from you that has no basis in fact, but then what new?

Here is another one for ya. You've made several posts about how Morency is a #1 RB. I got $20 that says he does'nt gain 1000 rushing yards this season. Same ground-rule as above in regards to major injury.

IF GB makes it to the NFC championship, I'll gladly drive up there and remove your lips from Teddy's ass and plant mine there. However, Teddy has had enough time. If he's done his job, this team SHOULD make the play-offs. That is not some huge accomplishment. This team SHOULD improve every season IF he's doing his job.

As I've staed before, THIS season will tell us all we need to know about Teddy and the team's immediate future. I'm more than happy to stake my credibility on this season, but are you? No more BS excuses from you. If this team improves on last season's record and makes the play-offs, than I will admit to being wrong about Thompson and will never utter a single negative word about him. If this team does'nt improve on 8-8 and have a play-off spot, you grow up and join the real world!

[Bretsky]

First off, let's be nice. We're all on board hoping Green Bay wins near term and it's perfectly fine to agree to disagree.

I am anti TT and agree with Woody a lot more than most posters. I'm more than happy to be proven wrong though.

Third, I want to see the record improve from 8-8.

And for those who give TT great credit to go from 4-12 to 8-8, I'd hope you expect that record to improve again.

Truth be told, while strapped with money, TT made some poor decisions in year one that aided in that miserable 4-12 record. We had some bad injuries, but I'm not sure we were as bad as our record that year.

Then we were 4-8 last year and two of our last three games were complete asskickings to AFC playoff teams. We looked like crap, but then played some bad competition to close out the season.

We won a nice game in San Francisco to make us 5-8, and then had an ugly win against the Lions and pathetic playing Vikings before closing the season against an apathetic Bears team.

When looking at the whole picture, my bias is to give Woody's reference to a 12-20 record more credibility than the improvement to 8-8 last year.

But if you are lauding TT for the improvement in record, I hope you hold him accountable for more measurable improvement.

When TT brings us a title, I'll be happy to admit I was completely wrong. And I'll also be happy if my bias starts changing.

[Tarlam!]

Regardless of our record in 2007/2008 season, I am pro TT. People saying he has had enough time to get it done, or, he has had enough money to get it done live in fantasy football world as far as I am concerned.

Bretsky, TT had no cap room in year one. And you know it. That's why we lost our pro bowl guards. That's why Walker's timing was off, when he started his showdown.

In year two, the Hawk draft, he got top marks for his off-season. In year 3, he drafted at 16 instead of 6 (maybe where he should have drafted according to the critics).

So in reality, it is 3 moves, maybe 4 (A-Rod, Walker, Moss maybe Harrel) that have the nay-sayers so livid. Exclaiming he should have been more aggressive in FA is pathetic, in my view. Woody is man enough to come out, but I so disagree with Woody, it would take an entire forum to air those views.

TT is as prudent a GM as there is. He remains objective. He has shown no emotion (exept after drafting Hawk) and that pisses alot of people off.

Well, put a friggin' dress on!

If you want a giddy getting GM, please turn to Detroit to get your fix. Our GM is a hard nosed businessman.