The Official ULTIMATE debate thread on TT!

[Bretsky]

Regardless of our record in 2007/2008 season, I am pro TT. People saying he has had enough time to get it done, or, he has had enough money to get it done live in fantasy football world as far as I am concerned.

Bretsky, TT had no cap room in year one. And you know it. That's why we lost our pro bowl guards. That's why Walker's timing was off, when he started his showdown.

In year two, the Hawk draft, he got top marks for his off-season. In year 3, he drafted at 16 instead of 6 (maybe where he should have drafted according to the critics).

So in reality, it is 3 moves, maybe 4 (A-Rod, Walker, Moss maybe Harrel) that have the nay-sayers so livid. Exclaiming he should have been more aggressive in FA is pathetic, in my view. Woody is man enough to come out, but I so disagree with Woody, it would take an entire forum to air those views.

TT is as prudent a GM as there is. He remains objective. He has shown no emotion (exept after drafting Hawk) and that pisses alot of people off.

Well, put a friggin' dress on!

If you want a giddy getting GM, please turn to Detroit to get your fix. Our GM is a hard nosed businessman.

You've chosen to state the obvious in TT's year one, but look further. Who did TT get in to replace those guys. He brought in Adrienne Klemm from New England as a free agent to start. Klemm was a miserable failure. And was Will Whittaker really the best TT could do ? You can give him a flyer for losing Wahle and Rivera, but at least acknowledge what TT did to replace them because that had as big of an impact on 4-12 than anything did.

TT made mistakes in the Walker ordeal; he as much admitted it after it went down. He learned from it but IMO it's too easy to hang him out to dry or glorify his position. It was a complicated ordeal.

Free Agency, we shall agree to disagree. Loads of talent was there last year when TT just signed Woodsen to a frontloaded deal and Pickett. This year it was down, but certainly there were players that could have helped.

Those who dislike TT, IMO, do so for many more reasons than you acknowlege.

[Tarlam!]

Whittiker was a starter in Sherman's system. Klemm was a cheap, cheap FA that didn't pan out.

That's where your loathing of TT comes from?

You gotta be kidding me. He doesn't overpay players. He will not be blackmailed.He doesn't contribute when salaries spiral into the stratesphere.

The man is prudent.

The fact that Woody is oblivious to our good fortune with TT doesn't surprise me, but, you Bretsky? I had you pegged for smarter...

[Scott Campbell]

Re: traitor

I'm more than happy to stake my credibility on this season, but are you? No more BS excuses from you. If this team improves on last season's record and makes the play-offs, than I will admit to being wrong about Thompson and will never utter a single negative word about him. If this team does'nt improve on 8-8 and have a play-off spot, you grow up and join the real world!

Is it healthy for anyone's manhood to hinge on the failure of his favorite football team? In summer? When they're not even playing?

Have a beer.

[Scott Campbell]

Ted Thompson acts in so many ways like an egotistic coward. This is his team people say. Well for the sake of GOD why is he so invisable?

Maybe you could provide some specific examples, because otherwise this just looks like more inflamatory rabble rousing to try and sway others with your I HATE TED propaganda. I think they're plenty of legitimate moves to argue over without resorting to making crap up.

[RashanGary]

Re: traitor

PACKNUT - What's pathetic is you've never made one post here that has any FACTS to back it up. It's kool-aid drinking blind worship crap. According to you, every Packer player is a pro bowl guy. REALLY? ? ?

JUSTINHARRELL - Partial - I predict he has a big time year. Maybe even pro-bowl.

ME - Come on Partial. He has a good chance to be good but probowl is a little far fetched don't you think?


This was found in the Morency hungry for carry’s thread. This is just another example of your childish, transparent exaggerations that typically accompany men with small penises who need to compensate

Packnut’s record so far: Facts – 0, Exaggerated small penis compensating – 1









PACKNUT - Your just like a woman, you only understand what fits your opinion. I have stated several times, that Thompson has done some good things. I dis-agree with some of the things he's done. Being "anti TT" would mean I'd dis-agree with most of the things he's done. How hard is that to understand?

JUSTIN HARRELL - OK, I’ll play. I did a search for Ted Thompson by the author packnut and this is what I found in my random sample of ten

1. http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewto...mpson&start=20 packnut agrees with a poster who said Thompson is making decision that are not to win but rather to pad his ego. Sounds like someone we know but in your case it’s compensating for your small penis.

2. http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewto...light=thompson Packnut says that if Thompson drafts a WR we’ll be OK but doubts Thompsons willingness to win. Thompson did not draft a reciever so this is one other random topic that you disagree with.

3. Same topic, packnut disagrees with Thompsons approach to WR free agency. Also agrees that with Thompson that Woodson was a good signing. 3 anti Thompson so far, 1 pro Thompson (the pro Thompson was only used as a tool to spew more anti Thompson rhetoric.

4. Same topic later in the thread: Packnut says that TT Went 2-3 last year in FA postive, again uses that to set up his plea for more FA’s this year (disregarding how weak the class was if I might add). Regardless, Thompson didn’t do what Packnut wanted so there is another thing in the negative as far as agreeing with him. Pro-Thompson – 2 Anti Thompson – 4

5. http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewto...light=thompson Best one yet. Packnut starts his very own thread about how the off season should be conducted. You went through and picked all of the things you wanted Thompson to do. You said that you had a sick feeling that he wouldn’t do any of it and you were right. There were at least 3 things here and just so I don’t have to look any further I’ll just give you the next one as a pro comment to give me the original 10 I sought out.

I conducted this study by picking a random TT thread and then going up 6 each time as a way of having random selections instead of me picking them out. It was completely random.

Total tally

Pro TT – 3
Anti TT - 7

How hard is that to understand, tiny? Seems like 7 vs 3 is a vast majority, no? Also, anyone who knows you would probably agree here that you are about as anti TT as they get and your overcompensating for your little weiner is what makes you even more annoying than usual.










PACKNUT - Now you wanna talk about spineless? Look in the mirror. Teddy does no wrong in your eyes. You except every move he makes without question. Loyalty does'nt mean brain-less. hmmm. . . .

JUSTINHARRELL - Oh yes, here it is in the very post you responded to. “Bad move; Yes, but to say ‘In the history of GM screw-ups, this one ranks right up there with the best of them’ reeks of a person trying to exaggerate his view after a whole room of people voted against his line of thinking.”

Clearly I think TT makes mistakes, I just don’t overcompensate and exaggerate them like yourself










PACKNUT - The problem with people like you is you talk nothing but shit but have no balls to back it up. I'll put my money where my keyboard is. Walker will be a top 8 WR this season barring any major injury. I'll make it easy on ya. $20 is nothing. Put up or shut up. It's that simple. Why is it Driver is older than Walker but yet he's a stud and Walker is gonna lose it when he's that age? More stupid bs from you that has no basis in fact, but then what new?

JUSTINHARRELL - Sorry, I think Walker will have a good year and losing him hurt











PACKNUT - Here is another one for ya. You've made several posts about how Morency is a #1 RB. I got $20 that says he does'nt gain 1000 rushing yards this season. Same ground-rule as above in regards to major injury.

JUSTINHARRELL - I’m gonna use this one again because I never said Morency was this great #1 back. I think he could be good but I’ve been consistant in my worries about the running game.

Partial - I predict he has a big time year. Maybe even pro-bowl.

JustinHarrell - Come on Partial. He has a good chance to be good but probowl is a little far fetched don't you think?


This was found in the Morency hungry for carry’s thread.










PACKNUT - IF GB makes it to the NFC championship, I'll gladly drive up there and remove your lips from Teddy's ass and plant mine there. However, Teddy has had enough time. If he's done his job, this team SHOULD make the play-offs. That is not some huge accomplishment. This team SHOULD improve every season IF he's doing his job.

JUSTINHARRELL - I agree somewhat. I think they should be 9-7 but 8-8 wouldn’t have me jumping off a bridge because of the youth. We’re not too far off here









PACKNUT - As I've staed before, THIS season will tell us all we need to know about Teddy and the team's immediate future. I'm more than happy to stake my credibility on this season, but are you? No more BS excuses from you. If this team improves on last season's record and makes the play-offs, than I will admit to being wrong about Thompson and will never utter a single negative word about him. If this team does'nt improve on 8-8 and have a play-off spot, you grow up and join the real world!

JUSTINHARRELL - Well, I’m not going to jump in with this because my minimum expectation is 8-8. I predict 9-7 and would be thoroughly impressed by TT if we go 10-6 or better considering he tore it down and built it up almost from scratch..

[Bretsky]

Just remember about the 2 beer bet JH; I take my free drinks seriously..

[RashanGary]

Just remember about the 2 beer bet JH; I take my free drinks seriously..

I'm happy to bet 2 beers in fun with someone who is willing to admit wrong if that is what happens.

I think the bet was for teh wild card, right?

[Bretsky]

Just remember about the 2 beer bet JH; I take my free drinks seriously..

I'm happy to bet 2 beers in fun with someone who is willing to admit wrong if that is what happens.

I think the bet was for teh wild card, right?

Yup, actually for the playoffs in any way they make it.

[Tarlam!]

Nick (aka JH), that Packnut rebuttal is a classic!

[Bretsky]

[quote="Tarlam!"]Whittiker was a starter in Sherman's system. Klemm was a cheap, cheap FA that didn't pan out.

That's where your loathing of TT comes from?

You gotta be kidding me. He doesn't overpay players. He will not be blackmailed.He doesn't contribute when salaries spiral into the stratesphere.

The man is prudent.

The fact that Woody is oblivious to our good fortune with TT doesn't surprise me, but, you Bretsky? I had you pegged for smarter... [/quote


You've made some generalization that I completely agree with about TT being prudent, not overpaying etc . But we also disagree on several specific instances that seem to be defining TT as well. To comment on a couple of your points in year one...

Whittaker was a very poor starter; Klemm was a bad signing. Under the GM's reign. I don't give the free pass out that easy. If they were unacceptable starters then a GM finds new ones...trades....free agency..etc. As I said TT needs to be accountable as he was a part of 4-12.

TT seems to have recovered well from those days on the OL by retooling well through the draft. He gets credit for that. Also seems to have rebuilt the defense well and the bottom quarter of the roster is certainly better than what he inherited.

As for free agency, I don't buy for a second into the everybody is overpaid mentality. There were fair finds out there that signed this year in positions of need for Green Bay. TT just chose not to play in free agency, or maybe he decided he was only going to play if he get extreme bargains.

I think he should also take some blame for losing Javon Walker (he learned from that one) and Ahman Green (who from reports he should have signed before free agency hit). You are right in that I don't like Rodgers; hope I'm wrong there.

And you are right in that I didn't love the Harrell pick, but I don't hate it either. More than the Harrell pick, I thought TT could have still drafted a top WR if he had the stones to trade up in the draft and get Jarrett or Rice. Lack of boldness.....letting the chips fall as they will and his refusal to modify his game and go for the gold.......all reasons I have a negative bias now.

In the end, TT IMO has made some good and some bad decisions. At the head of my view is the fact that I lack patience, and he moves way too slow for me in building a winner. I'm confident TT can draft well and build a decent roster for many years to come; I'm not confident that he'll make the bold moves needed to bring us a title.

Time will tell, and I'll be happy to admit I was wrong when we win a Super Bowl if it happens.

[Tarlam!]

Sorry, B, but I can't and won't agree drafting Whittiker and signing Klemm to be defining moments to TT's tenure. He would not have had an issue at guard, but Shermie set that up. It is a lot to ask of a new GM tp replcae 2 pro bowlers within a month.

I will agree he completely mishandled the Walker Affair, but, Walker's public statements kind of forced TT's hand a bit. Harris and DD were far more intelligent in my view. So was Bubba Franks, if you recall.

Signing your own players has been TT's statement. He let Bubba, Harris, DD, Kampy, Jenkns and most recently, Barnett see the cash. So, not only does he talk the talk, he also walks the walk.

A-Rod and Harrell are to me defining. Two 1st rounders out of 3 should define a GM. If only one is as good as Hawk should become, well, that's 2 outta 3. At any rate, most experts agree you can't really judge a draft till 3 years go by. That means, we get to judge TT's first draft at the end of this year. Seeing as A-Rod will be holding the clipboard again, and T-Murph is a coaching intern, it'll be a split decision.

The thing most TT anti-fans seem strung out about is TT's performance during free agency. Well, he seems to be doing OK. Not great, but, OK.

What I admire is the fact that he has a strategy and he is sticking with it, despite what fans are saying. He's not stupid. He knows what is being said. He could easily trade for Moss.

But TT is not after a populairty prize. He's after a sustainable winning team.

[Rastak]

You forgot O'Dwyer Bretsky.


Actually I agree with you on the WR tradeup. Hey, maybe Ted was right and we'll see. I think TT has done an ok job so far but I also disagree with some of his methods...but then again who am I? I though Woodson was a stupid signing and it clearly wasn't.

[Fred's Slacks]

I'm confident TT can draft well and build a decent roster for many years to come; I'm not confident that he'll make the bold moves needed to bring us a title.

Here's the part that I hear a lot of but don't necessarily agree with. I know that in our mid 90's hay day, Wolf made a few bold moves that catapulted us from a young promising team into a true championship team. I am just not sure that the bold move is needed. Sure it can be a huge help when it works, but I think the model to look at is the Pats. What bold move did they make just before their first Lombardi trophy? Maybe someone here can point one out and prove me wrong but as I remember they did exactly as TT is trying to do now: draft well and find value in FA.

I am sure people will point to what the Pats are doing now and say "Look their paying big money to free agents and taking risks". Yes the are, but I don't think they are being smart in doing so. It looks like they see their window with Brady closing and want to capitalize. Maybe it works and they can get another trophy or two, but if it doesn't, they're going to have a much harder time getting back to good then if they had stayed with their old plan of building through the draft. What they're doing now reminds me of what Sherman did as a GM trying to win the big one before Brett retires.

[the_idle_threat]

I agree with Fred's Slacks. Well stated.

Also, LOLOLOL @ "Adrienne Klemm" Good one, B!

[RashanGary]

Two guys get fifty dollars each. The goal is to build the fastest sail-boat. There are many quality pieces in the hardware store, wallmart, and hobby shop but 50 dollars isn't 50 dollars no matter how it's spent. One guy might get more for his money.

The winner is going to be the guy who knows what it takes to biuld a boat (talent evaluator). If there are two guys who know how to build a boat like there are more than two GM's that know how to scout talent then the guy who gets more for his money is going to win.

If I spend fifteen dollars on a red sail and the next guy spends ten on the same one but white, he's getting the advantage because he has five more dollars to spend on a lighter more arrowdynamic hull for example.

The NFL is more complicated than that as you can manipulate the cap and such and it is done over many years, not just one week with the boat, but the concept of value is present anytime you have a budget. Be it a fifty dollar boat race or a 100 million dollar football team. If you have the same to spend as the next guy, you better get more for your money than he does.

It's that simple. We might have extra money now, but if we go blow it on things that are not worth their price like the fifteen dollar sail then we are going to run into trouble when we want to buy the next piece. You just have to find value and I believe Thompson does that. There are some bumps and bruises along the way but if you want to be the best then some patients is required because you're not going to find the right sail in the first store you walk into. You might have to spend a couple days looking. In NFL terms, you might have to suffer through two bad OG's for a year because the first store (the first offseason) didn't have the right piece.