HR Record vs TD record

[Bretsky]

I hate to be the devil's advocate here, but, come on guys, I feel sorry for the scrutiny that Bonds has been put under over this steroids issue. First off, everyone knows that especially throughout the 90's just about EVERYONE was on steroids. I mean, even Roger Clemons was (and probably still is) taking them. So, why do we pick on Bonds constantly. Look, even though steroids obviously played a part in his added mass, it doesn't make it easier to swing a bat and make perfect contact with a curveball or 98 mph fastball. If steroids was the reason for him hitting 70 plus homers, and Maguire and Sosa having their incredible season, then why didn't all other players hit 60 to 70 homers also. I know many were hitting 30 and 40 when in the eighties 40 was incredible, but even so, most players were on steroids, and only a handful put up ridiculous numbers. Also, the pitchers were taking them too, so it sort of evens out the playing field.


Giambi gets hammered, McGuire gets hammered, Palmiero gets hammered.....as do plenty of others. And they should.

And your information is faulty; I was listening on ESPN and they had an Roid guru on. Not only will they improve your strength, they can also aide in your hand eye coordination as well. Bonds is a great player...........but

I don't feel an ounce of pity on Bonds if he took steroids. And he did. Let's not assume everybody does this because they flat out don't.

How Bonds achieved this makes Hank Aaron's accomplishments look even better. Bud Selig, who has been very good for the game of baseball, has made his statement by delaying the mere announcement of whether he even plans to be there when the record is broken. I fully believe he will be, but he's made his point.

TAINTED RECORD. It's a farce.

I can't wait til Bonds record is broken because in my mind he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same regard as Hank Aaron.

[Tarlam!]

[Not only will they improve your strength, they can also aide in your hand eye coordination as well.

Now that, is hysterically funny. And unproven. It may be true, but no conclusive study has been submitted and accepted by Academia that supports your "Roid Guru". None. No where.

Hahahahaha.

[RashanGary]

I tend to appreciate Bonds greatness but in my mind I consider him a notch below Mayes (based on numbers) and a good couple notches below Ruth and Aaron.

I think him and A-Rod are the greatest players of the last 20 years even with the roids.

[4and12to12and4]

I mean, even Roger Clemons was (and probably still is) taking them.

You state this like it's fact.

It's as much of a fact as anyone else, other than Giambi, the only guy with the balls to admit it. Other teammates of Clemens have stated to the press that not only was he taking steroids, they were administering them to him. Why would they lie? Plus, the guys 65 years old, come on, I think the evidence is pretty damning against him.

[Bretsky]

I mean, even Roger Clemons was (and probably still is) taking them.

You state this like it's fact.

It's as much of a fact as anyone else, other than Giambi, the only guy with the balls to admit it. Other teammates of Clemens have stated to the press that not only was he taking steroids, they were administering them to him. Why would they lie? Plus, the guys 65 years old, come on, I think the evidence is pretty damning against him.

I should apologize for quoting something as fact based off an ESPN interview and Tarlem noted it was unsupportable bunk. I took a few minutes surfing and pretty much found out Tarlem was correct.

I have no idea about Clemens, but I'd note that he's very well known to be an absolute workout warrior year round and values keeping himself pretty fit

[Patler]

I have no idea about Clemens, but I'd note that he's very well known to be an absolute workout warrior year round and values keeping himself pretty fit

The same can be said for Bonds. He has been conditioning and nutrition conscious since he was in Pittsburgh. He is a very private person, and reporters hate him, so much of it doesn't get reported. About 6 years ago an article reported about how dedicated he is to his sport. His off-season days involve hours of workouts every day, at him in a huge gym, not unlike Clemens.

Some close to Bonds have said that he took steroids for two years only, after what McGwire and Sosa did to the single season homerun record, when everyone overlooked their drug use. They have said that he was 100% clean before then, and since.

Much has been said about Bonds HR totals jumping by about 10/year when he went from Pittsburgh to SF, and detractors argue it is evidence of his steroid use even then. But, it also corresponds to the time he matured physically, as many adults do in their late 20s. He hated Pittsburgh, and in SF he was comfortable and began listening to advice from his father, and godfather, Willie Mays. He matured as a batter, and became a very patient hitter. His BBs increased dramatically and his HR totals began to climb. In short, he swung only at good pitches.

I suspect, as do most, that his 73 HR season was steroid enhanced, but not his career. He is a phenomenal hitter, more disciplined at the plate than almost anyone I can think of. He rarely swings at a bad pitch. If more hitters were this disciplined, their power numbers would go up, too.

[Patler]

I tend to appreciate Bonds greatness but in my mind I consider him a notch below Mayes (based on numbers) and a good couple notches below Ruth and Aaron.

Having watched both, I think Mays was a slightly better player than Aaron. Mays would have broken Ruth's record before Aaron if he had not been drafted into the army. He lost all but 34 games in 1952 and the entire 1953 season to the military. He came back in 1954 and hit 41 HRs. He easily lost 60-70 career homers due to his military service.

I won't even compare the difficulty of hitting HRs for a righthanded hitter in the original configuration Candlestick and the launching pad in Atlanta. One writer doing a biography of Mays read game reports, articles, listened to tapes etc, etc. and estimated that the gale-like winds blowing in from left field everyday before they closed in Candlestick may have cost Mays 5-10 HRs per year. He also noted that for years, Mays hit more HRs on the road than in Candlestick.

Then there was the Polo Gounds in which Mays started his career........

Poor guy never played a home game in a decent park for a righthanded power hitter!

[Patler]

I am a bit of a Willie Mays freak, so just for the heck of it, I looked up his HR totals at Candlestick and away.

While with the Giants in SF, he hit 203 HRs at Candlestick Park.
During that same time period, he hit 256 HRs in their away games.

I think it is pretty clear that playing half his season in Candlestick dramatically decreased his HR total.

Had he played in better home parks for hitters, and not lost essentially two seasons when he was drafted into the Army, Mays may have had the HR record up to nearly 800. Neither Aaron nor Bonds may have been able to catch him.

[Rastak]

I am a bit of a Willie Mays freak, so just for the heck of it, I looked up his HR totals at Candlestick and away.

While with the Giants in SF, he hit 203 HRs at Candlestick Park.
During that same time period, he hit 256 HRs in their away games.

I think it is pretty clear that playing half his season in Candlestick dramatically decreased his HR total.

Had he played in better home parks for hitters, and not lost essentially two seasons when he was drafted into the Army, Mays may have had the HR record up to nearly 800. Neither Aaron nor Bonds may have been able to catch him.

Willie Mays played a few blocks from my house back in the 50's when he was in the minors.....I wasn't alive yet so I missed it! The stadium is long gone but they did have home plate in a "Red Owl" grocery store back in the 70s. I think it's long gone now.....

[Scott Campbell]

So, why do we pick on Bonds constantly?

Because nobody likes a cheater - especially a surly one.

[Rastak]

So, why do we pick on Bonds constantly?

Because nobody likes a cheater - especially a surly one.

What he said.

[Scott Campbell]

............. but I highly doubt Brett Favre is on steroids.

Can you imagine his recievers hands if he was on steroids? Would they still even have hands?

[mraynrand]

Arrrgh, I just tried to catch a pass from Favre on Steroids!

[MJZiggy]

I was thinking more along the lines of those Pamplona pictures, though I can't bring myself to look at them to copy them here...blech.

[packinpatland]

Arrrgh, I just tried to catch a pass from Favre on Steroids!

Perfect!!!!