GLIMPSE TO FUTURE--"""MANNING SOON TO SHRED A

[Zool]

Re: GLIMPSE TO FUTURE--"""MANNING SOON TO SHR

When he does, Kenny Chesney will be SOOOOO happy!!!!

Could they be any more gay for each other?

[The Leaper]

Re: GLIMPSE TO FUTURE--"""MANNING SOON TO SHR

Anybody else thing Manning will break them all ???

I don't.

Manning does not possess the raw talent of a Favre or Elway. Now that he has won a Super Bowl, he doesn't possess the desire to keep playing for year after year past his prime like Marino did.

Take Favre's stats after 9 years and project them over 17 and they will likely be closer to Manning's projection than Marino's final stats too. Manning's offensive group will start to decline in the years ahead...and his numbers will also start to decline. Manning has no mobility, so any drop off in OL play will really hurt his stats.

I think Manning's ego would prevent him from sticking around through a rebuilding period like Favre has. With the Colts primed to take a tumble in the next 3-5 years (lots of cap tied up in only a few players, loss of depth due to free agency) I don't think Peyton will be around for 8 more years.

I'm also someone who feels Favre could play another 2-3 years easily. The Packers are on the rise...a slow rise, but a rise nonetheless. He had that surgery to his ankle...which he really didn't want to do...that would suggest Favre plans on playing longer than one more year. His oldest daughter is off to college now, so she isn't a reason to retire any longer.

Manning's best shot is the yardage title...I highly doubt he breaks Favre's record for wins or TDs when all is said and done. If Manning doesn't do it, it could be awhile before we see another great QB like that with the durability and longevity to make a run at those records. Guys like Favre, Elway, Marino and Manning typically don't come along in the same generation. The NFL has been blessed.

[the_idle_threat]

[Manning's] got a lot more arm strength than a little above average. It's not Elway or Favre, but his arm strength is better than 90% of the QBs in the league. There's not a throw he can't make because of arm strength.

I am compelled to agree ... to disagree.

This is an impossible thing to rank with great accuracy, but at best, I'd place Manning at maybe the 75th percentile in arm strength. I believe it's probably lower than that---definitely not in the 90th percentile.

Keep in mind how small a sample we're looking at here. Among starters, there are only 3 quarterbacks in the league in the 90th percentile. (Perhaps I should clarify that I'm talking about starters here, since rag-armed backups who never had a chance to play in the first place hardly count or matter.) You're telling me that Peyton's arm strength is top-3 among all starters in the league? I call bullshit. There are numerous guys who are renowned for their outstanding arm strength, such as Favre, Vick, Cutler, Palmer, McNair, and even J.P. Losman.

If you read a bio on Manning, it will go on about his accuracy and his touch, and of course his ability to read defenses, audible, and manage the game. Regarding his arm, it will say what you said---that he has enough arm strength to get the job done. See the following examples:

http://www.peytonmanning18.com/bio.html

Positives: "Arm is strong enough for him to throw all the routes in the playbook."
Negatives: "Lacks a great arm. Can't throw off-balance with zip as Favre or Elway can. Needs to set his feet to zip the ball."

http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Manning/Manning_bio.html

"Peyton’s arm strength is above average, while his accuracy is off the charts. He throws his share of wobblers, but most of his passes find their targets between the numbers and in stride."

This is not even close to the same thing as having one of the strongest arms in the league.

Easily more than half of the starting quarterbacks in the league have enough arm to make "all the throws"---as Manning does---so that statement is meaningless toward your point. If anything, it shows his arm strength is close to average, which is my point.

And it goes to the larger point: If Manning's arm is just "good enough to make all the throws" now---when he's in his prime---then wouldn't that mean that when he gets past 35 and his arm strength begins to wane, he won't even be able to make all the throws? Seems to me that he might not age as well as other guys who have more physical tools to work with.

[BF4MVP]

Records are kept so that people can break them..Manning breaking Favre's passing records does not diminish anything Favre has accomplished in his career..Not even a little bit..

[HarveyWallbangers]

You can argue all you want. Every scouting service you find will likely say that he doesn't have a cannon like Elway or Favre, but has good arm strength. It's way above average. You make him sound like a noodle arm. I'd say he's similar to a Dan Fouts--which is still better than 80% of the QBs who have played the game.

If I was to compare to baseball, Favre and Elway have 100 MPH fastballs. A guy can get by on a 90 MPH fastball. Some guys even less. Manning would have a 94-95 MPH fastball with exceptional control. That puts him great on accuracy and good on velocity.

The guy is a great QB. One of the best ever. To say he doesn't have a cannon like Favre or Elway as a flaw is just nitpicking. His arm strength is plenty good. Personally, I think if he has one flaw it's his lack of mobility, inability to throw well on the move, and shakiness when he does get rattled. If you are able to lock down his receivers a bit and get a solid pass rush, he can be rattled more than many of the top QBs. Lucky for him, he's had a great receiving, great receiving RBs, and good OL.

[the_idle_threat]

Of course, you're so dug in with the arguing that you miss the point entirely, Harv.

Let's review it one more time.

1. Manning has an above-average arm, but definitely not a cannon arm. Does this mean noodle-arm to you? It doesn't to me. Noodle-arm would be well below average, considering that even average quarterbacks in the NFL have strong enough arms to make all the throws. Noodle-arm means unable to make all the throws.

2. I'm not focusing on Manning's arm strength to somehow diminish his accomplishments or say he's inferior to Brett or any other quarterback. I'm only pointing it out as a fact that might shed light on Manning's future.

The guys who have lasted into their late 30's and put up all-time numbers, like Favre, Elway, Marino, Warren Moon, etc., were known as having outstanding arm strength, rather than just above average. Marino less so than the other three perhaps, but he was stronger than Manning in his prime. (Here is a source for that assertion: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6656792 ). Their "cannons" lost a little steam as they got up there in years, but they still had enough juice left at the end to make all the throws.

So what does that imply for a guy like Manning, who doesn't have quite as much to lose before he can't make all the throws anymore? I think he will decline at a younger age than these other guys did, which means it's no sure thing he will get all the records.

That's my point.

Rather than addressing this point, you first choose to deny the obvious, and claim that Manning in fact has a cannon arm. I had to call bullshit on that.

Then you come back and admit he doesn't have a cannon arm, but say he has plenty enough arm to be very effective today, and I'm nitpicking regarding how good he is.

This misses the point entirely---I'm not saying he's an average quarterback or anything like that---I'm just saying he has a weaker throwing arm than the other top guys historically. That's all. This only means that---even though he will rightfully be known as one of the best QBs all time (as much as I hate to say that because I think he's a total prick)---it's no sure thing that he'll be effective long enough to break all the passing records.

Do you have any comments on my actual point, or do you want to continue missing the point and arguing meaningless side issues?

[MJZiggy]

And it goes to the larger point: If Manning's arm is just "good enough to make all the throws" now---when he's in his prime---then wouldn't that mean that when he gets past 35 and his arm strength begins to wane, he won't even be able to make all the throws? Seems to me that he might not age as well as other guys who have more physical tools to work with.

You sure do know how to sweet talk a girl...

[the_idle_threat]

And it goes to the larger point: If Manning's arm is just "good enough to make all the throws" now---when he's in his prime---then wouldn't that mean that when he gets past 35 and his arm strength begins to wane, he won't even be able to make all the throws? Seems to me that he might not age as well as other guys who have more physical tools to work with.

You sure do know how to sweet talk a girl...

Yes ... yes I do.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I get your point, and it may be valid, but you are now saying this:

1. Manning has an above-average arm

When you said this before;

Manning has never had much better than an average arm

And I do know that means arm strength. I'm just saying that he has good, not great, arm strength. He'll drop off like all QBs do when they get older, but he can afford to lose a little velocity.

[b bulldog]

Mannings biggest attribute imo is above the shoulders, Brett imo does have more raw talent but Manning has much more above the shoulders and that usually gets you farther in the end. Simply put, all records are meant to be broken. Brett has done a wonderful job getting to where he is but in the end, Manning will own the records imo but he could get hurt next year and retire soon after.

[The Leaper]

Arm strength is not as important to Manning because his team plays in a dome...and in a division where poor weather will be rare to see.

I think his legs are much more of a concern. His mobility is scary bad. If the OL lapses, Manning will be forced to throw more quickly...and we saw what that did to Favre last year.

[Bretsky]

Arm strength is not as important to Manning because his team plays in a dome...and in a division where poor weather will be rare to see.

I think his legs are much more of a concern. His mobility is scary bad. If the OL lapses, Manning will be forced to throw more quickly...and we saw what that did to Favre last year.

The GM has did a wonderful job focusing on surrounding his superstar with weapons on the offensive side and quality blockers.

His #3 leaves so he used his 1st on a WR; the well oiled machine has a few more scary years ahead of him

[GrnBay007]

If the OL lapses...

He'll throw them under the bus, like he's done before.

(or maybe if he just "thinks" they lapsed) :P

[the_idle_threat]

If the OL lapses...

He'll throw them under the bus, like he's done before.

AHAHAHAHAHAA!!! LOVE IT!!!

[b bulldog]

just throwing the youth in front of the bus, right