RB Breakdown

[The Leaper]

Re: RB Breakdown

Summary, I hope that Jackson looks as good on the field as he does in the youtube clips. He wont outrun everyone but i'll take a solid 4.5ypc.

Well, Morency DID average 4.5 ypc last year...and you are ready to run him out of town and let Jackson take over because of YouTube. That's ridiculous. You could make Robert Ferguson look like Jerry Rice with a 2 minute YouTube edit. I'm sure Morency's 2 minute media clip was pretty convincing too.

Jackson isn't likely to start week 1. Morency has 2 years of NFL experience under his belt, which means he will likely be better in the intangibles of playing the position, as well as having a better grasp of the Packer playbook.

The bottom line is that BOTH of these guys are going to be utilized. We aren't likely to see either one suddenly get the lion share of carries if both are healthy. Since neither is proven over the long term, keeping both fresh is the best strategy for maximizing their performance.

[Zool]

Re: RB Breakdown

Summary, I hope that Jackson looks as good on the field as he does in the youtube clips. He wont outrun everyone but i'll take a solid 4.5ypc.

Well, Morency DID average 4.5 ypc last year...and you are ready to run him out of town and let Jackson take over because of YouTube. That's ridiculous. You could make Robert Ferguson look like Jerry Rice with a 2 minute YouTube edit. I'm sure Morency's YouTube clip was pretty convincing too.

Jackson isn't likely to start week 1. Morency has 2 years of NFL experience under his belt, which means he will likely be better in the intangibles of playing the position, as well as having a better grasp of the Packer playbook.

The bottom line is that BOTH of these guys are going to be utilized. We aren't likely to see either one suddenly get the lion share of carries if both are healthy. Since neither is proven over the long term, keeping both fresh is the best strategy for maximizing their performance.

There's a reason he was traded straight up for Samkon Gado I think. He had 2 good games, but Wisper had a couple good games too. So did Samkon. I want someone who will be good for a couple seasons not a couple games.

I'm not basing my expectations on a youtube clip obviously. I'm basing it on the fact that Jackson as a 2nd round pick. Nice tho.

[run pMc]

Morency probably starts the season and Jackson hopefully starts by Week 4 or 5. Assuming both stay healthy, it's going to be RB by committee all season. Durability is a concern, so splitting carries mitigates that and eases Action Jackson (LOL) into the starting role.

DEN has had lots of success using mid-to-late round draft picks with the ZBS (Mike Bell, Olandis Gary, Terrell Davis); Morency and Jackson are 2nd rounders. Based on the postings, it looks like most people think it will come down to the OL...I agree. With Favre at QB plus good blocking, the rest will follow. I do think they will have trouble against the league's better defenses (Top 10).

[The Leaper]

Re: RB Breakdown

I'm not basing my expectations on a youtube clip obviously. I'm basing it on the fact that Jackson as a 2nd round pick. Nice tho.

Jackson was the 63rd pick overall as a VERY late 2nd round pick.

Morency was the 73rd pick overall as an early 3rd round pick.

I don't see why you would base your thoughts on why Jackson is clearly a better back based on where they were selected in the draft. There really shouldn't be much of a difference in talent between them.

Yes, Morency was traded for Gado. If you also recall, Ahman Green was traded for Fred Vinson...so trying to relate value into who someone was traded for isn't all that accurate either.

Morency has been relatively effective in the few chances he's had behind pretty poor OLs in Houston and Green Bay. If the OL improves, there is no reason to believe Morency can't continue to be effective with more experience and more chances. The only drawback is that he may not have the durability...which is also a concern with Jackson. That is why both are going to share the load.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Re: RB Breakdown

Summary, I hope that Jackson looks as good on the field as he does in the youtube clips. He wont outrun everyone but i'll take a solid 4.5ypc.

Well, Morency DID average 4.5 ypc last year...and you are ready to run him out of town and let Jackson take over because of YouTube. That's ridiculous. You could make Robert Ferguson look like Jerry Rice with a 2 minute YouTube edit. I'm sure Morency's YouTube clip was pretty convincing too.

Jackson isn't likely to start week 1. Morency has 2 years of NFL experience under his belt, which means he will likely be better in the intangibles of playing the position, as well as having a better grasp of the Packer playbook.

The bottom line is that BOTH of these guys are going to be utilized. We aren't likely to see either one suddenly get the lion share of carries if both are healthy. Since neither is proven over the long term, keeping both fresh is the best strategy for maximizing their performance.

There's a reason he was traded straight up for Samkon Gado I think. He had 2 good games, but Wisper had a couple good games too. So did Samkon. I want someone who will be good for a couple seasons not a couple games.

I'm not basing my expectations on a youtube clip obviously. I'm basing it on the fact that Jackson as a 2nd round pick. Nice tho.

Can't always judge talent by who they were traded for. Look who we gave up for Ahman Green.

[4and12to12and4]

Good list Harv... there's more of course; but it serves to show just how many holes/weaknesses/questions the Packers have going into this season.

Fortunately, many of the teams in the NFC have a similar list.

In fact, my friends, who unfortunately are Bears fans, here in the chicagoland area, are also concerned about their wideout situation, and most are pissed off about losing Thomas Jones. So, even the NFC's representative to the SuperBowl last year has these same issues. To be honest, I like Benson, but he does seem to be injury-prone. Heck, I watched the replay when he went down in the Superbowl and am still trying to figure out how he got injured.

As far as wideouts go, I think we are in a MUCH better situation than Chicago. Not that comparing them to Chicago means much, but then again, they did go to the SuperBowl with those receivers.

I am a fan of Morency, and like him more than it seems most here do. He showed excellent cutbacks skills, quickness, elusiveness from the first tackler, and didn't really get a whole lot of opportunities. His size doesn't bother me at all (See Barry Sanders, Maurice-Drew, etc.). He seems to possess decent breakaway speed. To be honest, I'm happily surprised to hear that Jackson is considered faster. Morency is not a slow runner by any stretch of the imagination.

I am not really worried about RB. I'm more worried about this OL scheme we are running. It better improve drastically, especially the backside blocking, or NO RB is going anywhere. Look at Edgerrin James. He's with the explosive pass-happy Colts, and he's considered one of the best backs in the world, partially because nobody playing against the Colt's give a shit about the running attack, they are doing everything in their power just to stop Peyton from throwing 600 yards. He goes to Arizona, and he might as well have gone to NFL Europa. He disappears off the face of the map. Morency, Jackson, Herron, whatever, block somebody on the backside, and quit diving at people's knees and falling two feet short to suck a face full of grass, and maybe our RB's will have some success this year!!

[Patler]

Morency had 5 decent games:

Philly - 26/99
Arizona - 11/101
San Fran - 7/69
Detroit - 7/54
Chicago - 9/37

against NE he had only 1 carry, but for 5 yards.

In those 6 games he was 61/365 for about a 6.0/carry average. He missed 2 games due to injury, was not with the Packers for game #1, and had no carries in game #2. In the remaining 6 games in GB he was 30/56 for a 1.9/carry average.

[Zool]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/games/MoreVe00.htm#2006

[4and12to12and4]

Morency had 5 decent games:

Philly - 26/99
Arizona - 11/101
San Fran - 7/69
Detroit - 7/54
Chicago - 9/37

against NE he had only 1 carry, but for 5 yards.

In those 6 games he was 61/365 for about a 6.0/carry average. He missed 2 games due to injury, was not with the Packers for game #1, and had no carries in game #2. In the remaining 6 games in GB he was 30/56 for a 1.9/carry average.

Not to make light of those stats Patler (that would be heresy :P ) I just think we have the stallions, we just need the driver to clear the way. (See Edgerrin James' career).

[HarveyWallbangers]

Morency had 5 decent games:

Philly - 26/99
Arizona - 11/101
San Fran - 7/69
Detroit - 7/54
Chicago - 9/37

against NE he had only 1 carry, but for 5 yards.

In those 6 games he was 61/365 for about a 6.0/carry average. He missed 2 games due to injury, was not with the Packers for game #1, and had no carries in game #2. In the remaining 6 games in GB he was 30/56 for a 1.9/carry average.

Well, I've made the argument that Morency's 4.6 yards/carry was inflated. It was higher than Ahman Green's yards/carry, but Ahman generally went against tougher run defenses. However, that doesn't mean he's destined to suck. He'll probably be closer to 4.0 yards/carry, but that still isn't bad. If the OL improves, he could be solid. It should be pointed out that he averaged 4.0 yards/carry running behind a poor Houston OL in 2006 (although 46 carries is a small sample). As to Patler's stats, 30 carries in the other 6 games is also a very small sample.

[Jerry Tagge]

What makes anyone think Morency is a back who can carry the ball 20-25 times a game?

He's a nice backup, but that's all he is, a backup.

[The Shadow]

I think the tandem of Morency and Jackson will be a pleasant surprise - and I also suspect P.J. Pope will be the 3rd back.
Having similar kinds of backs does not require adjustments with the O-Line, and that could be a plus.
I always thought things got a little offtrack when Davenport came in for Green.
Young, fresh legs. Let em run!

[retailguy]

Morency had 5 decent games:

Philly - 26/99
Arizona - 11/101
San Fran - 7/69
Detroit - 7/54
Chicago - 9/37

against NE he had only 1 carry, but for 5 yards.

In those 6 games he was 61/365 for about a 6.0/carry average. He missed 2 games due to injury, was not with the Packers for game #1, and had no carries in game #2. In the remaining 6 games in GB he was 30/56 for a 1.9/carry average.

Well, I've made the argument that Morency's 4.6 yards/carry was inflated. It was higher than Ahman Green's yards/carry, but Ahman generally went against tougher run defenses. However, that doesn't mean he's destined to suck. He'll probably be closer to 4.0 yards/carry, but that still isn't bad. If the OL improves, he could be solid. It should be pointed out that he averaged 4.0 yards/carry running behind a poor Houston OL in 2006 (although 46 carries is a small sample). As to Patler's stats, 30 carries in the other 6 games is also a very small sample.

And the small sample is where the issues lie for me. See, it depends on WHEN those small samples occurred. That's why most backups have a better avg yd per carry.

The real test is what happens when the back is given 15-30 carries a game. Morency averaged less than 10 in the games he played. Can he be as explosive on carry 18 or 28 that he can be on carry 5? I don't think so. In any case, that question has yet to be answered.

The YPC argument is incomplete. The assumption is that he'll maintain that YPC when the carries triple. There is little basis that supports or doesn't support that conclusion.

Morency and the rest of the backfield are HUGE unknowns. Remember Lamont Jordan? He was supposed to "fix" the Oakland backfield. It didn't work. Then Chester Taylor came along and DID fix Minnesota's backfield. That guy should have a gold star 1000 times over for the effort he put forth with the rest of the Vikings miserable offense. It could go either way. But maintaining that it'll be fine because of his YPC is just foolish.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Difference between Morency and Jordan is that he has had success with this team, in this system (which seems to suit him), and behind this OL. Sure, when an RB has his carries is important, but he showed well in the games where Ahman was out--which means in starting situations. I don't know that he can handle it 25 times/game. I know he held up fine with a heavy workload at Oklahoma State. He's not that small. Plenty of RBs that carry 320 times/year are no bigger than he is. Then again, 25 carries/game = 400 carries/year--which few RBs this side of Larry Johnson have been asked to do. I don't see anything wrong with dividing the carries up. The #1 RB gets 15 carries/game, the #2 RB gets 10-12 carries/game, and the #3 RB gets a few.

I think RB is one of the most overrated positions on the field. There are a few RBs that are not (LT, LJ, Faulk). They can carry a bad offense. Most RBs are as good as their OL. (See Willis McGahee, Edgerrin James, Thomas Jones, Clinton Portis, any Denver RB, Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams, etc.) When Ahman has been injured, Najeh goes for 100 yards. Morency goes for 100 yards. Samkon goes for 100 yards. Noah Friggin' Herron goes for 100 yards. Tony Fisher goes for, well, 60 yards.

[4and12to12and4]

What makes anyone think Morency is a back who can carry the ball 20-25 times a game?

He's a nice backup, but that's all he is, a backup.

So, let me get this straight, I'm just checking our logic here, since Morency has never been given a chance to carry the ball 20 to 25 times, it proves he can't do it?

I'm going on paper (sort of) right now to end this silliness. I have played a couple of sports here and there. This whole "can he carry the load crap" is just that, "crap". When most RB's are spoken of in this way, what is really being asked is "can the guy run good, can he produce in the NFL?" If you're big, fast, and strong enough to get to the level that these guys are at, do you really think that they aren't capable once they're there to carry a ball 20 times in three friggin' hours? Give me a break. He either is a good running back or not. It has nothing to do with "will he be gassed in the second quarter?" So, is Morency good enough to start or not? That is the question? The second question is whether or not Jackson is better. I can already tell you from what I've seen I'd rather have Morency than Herron, not that Herron isn't a tool that can be utilized. He simply, IMO, isn't as strong, and doesn't cut as quick. He has plenty of speed, but that's about it. Having said that, he carved up a defense or two last year, when needed. So, what do I know?