Vick goes to court today....

[oregonpackfan]

I was listening to a legal expert who was interviewed on "The Fan" sports station re: Vick's charges.

What surprised me was that legally, Vick faced more serious charges on the gambling part of the dog-fighting. The penalities for the dog-fighting and the cruel disposal of the "Losing" dogs are not as severe as the actual gambling on the fights.

Most of the public has reacted to the dog-fighting and the abusive ways the dogs were treated after the fights. If you asked the "Average citizen" what he(she) thought of Vick's alleged gambling on the dog fights, I bet most would shrug their heads and say, "It's not that big a deal."

[GBRulz]

what a shocker...he plead not guilty. Trial set for Nov.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/26/vick.dogfighting/index.html

RICHMOND, Virginia (CNN) -- Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick pleaded not guilty Thursday to dogfighting charges, and a trial date was set for November after his defense attorney asked a judge for a delay, citing the complexity of the case.


An animal rights activist protests outside the courthouse in Richmond, Virginia, on Thursday.

1 of 2 Attorney Lawrence Woodward, in making the request of U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson, noted that some of the charges against Vick involve activities outside the Eastern District of Virginia and that forensic evidence must be collected.

Under federal guidelines, prosecutors must be ready to go to trial within 70 days. Hudson set Vick's trial date for November 26.

"I take these charges very seriously and look forward to clearing my good name," Vick said through one of his lawyers, Billy Martin. Watch what the delay might mean »

At an earlier bond hearing, U.S. Magistrate Judge Dennis Dohnal allowed Vick to continue his release under certain conditions. He ordered Vick to surrender his passport and dog-breeding license; not travel outside the Eastern District of Virginia without prior approval; and not buy or sell any dogs.

Vick also cannot violate the law -- even traffic laws -- and cannot have contact with his three co-defendants -- Purnell Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach, Virginia; Quanis Phillips, 28, of Atlanta, Georgia; and Tony Taylor, 34, of Hampton, Virginia.

No cameras were allowed inside the courtroom during the proceedings, which began around 3:30 ET.

Curious spectators, animal rights activists and Vick supporters, who crowded around the courthouse in anticipation of his arrival, erupted into boos and cheers as he approached, wearing a coat and tie and accompanied by U.S. marshals. Vick did not acknowledge the crowd as he entered the building.

After the hearings, Vick left the courthouse to more boos and cheers, including one woman's "We love you, Michael!" He stepped into a white Ford SUV, which quickly drove off.

Moments later, Martin said his client "said in a loud and clear voice that he is not guilty of these allegations."

In his statement, Vick apologized to his mother, family and teammates for the trouble and distraction the case has caused them.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has told Vick to stay away from the Falcons' training camp while the league finishes its review of the indictment. Goodell also told the Falcons to hold off on any disciplinary action until the review is complete, team owner Arthur Blank said.

Blank called the allegations "very repulsive to all of us," adding, "It's not the young man that I've gotten to know, certainly." But he said he has not asked Vick directly whether the allegations are true.

"I felt that was part of a legal process he needs to go through," Blank said.

Vick and the three associates were indicted by a federal grand jury last week on charges they conspired to organize bloody and vicious dogfights on a piece of property that Vick bought in 2001.

If convicted on both portions of the conspiracy charge, they each could be sentenced to up to six years in prison and fined $350,000, prosecutors said.

According to the federal indictment, dogs that didn't show enough fighting spirit, or that lost matches, were put to death by a variety of methods, including shooting, drowning, hanging and electrocution.

Prosecutors allege that on one occasion earlier this year, Vick participated in the killing of eight dogs.


Vick is one of pro football's highest-profile and highest-paid players, signing a 10-year, $130 million contract with the Falcons in 2004. He was a standout at Virginia Tech and the first player chosen in the 2001 NFL draft.

In addition to his Falcons contract, he also has endorsement deals with several companies -- one of which, shoe giant Nike, has suspended the release of a shoe bearing the quarterback's name. E-mail to a friend

[Kiwon]

I hear ya, Joe, but the NFL, it's owners and powerful friends will probably put a lot of pressure on the prosecutors to offer a deal and get this thing out of the headlines. The NFL is a cash cow for a lot of people and industries. They are very sensitive about anything that will affect their bottom line.

I think it is a little too late to keep this out of the headlines. People are already outraged that the NFL hasn't suspended him. In fact, I think some of the sponsors will be pressured by outraged fans to stop advertising during games, etc or people will not buy their product. Vick really put the NFL and the Falcons in a bad situation here. IMO, doing a plea deal is the last thing the Feds will do for Vick.

It's in the headlines in July. I think the NFL and its political and commercial supporters would do almost anything to get it out of the headlines by September when the season starts.

They've got tickets and merchandise to sell. Cities, hotels, restaurants are counting on NFL fans to come and spend a fortune. Las Vegas and other legal sports betting venues do their biggest business September - January.

The longer this issue hangs around, the greater potential public relations disaster it is for the NFL because these allegations divide people into different camps.

Many fans are animal lovers and view Vick as a murderer. They want him suspended now and in jail as soon as possible. Others, who don't care for pets, see it as his personal business and don't want Vick taken off the field at all. Some even see dog fighting as a legitimate sport. This activity exists for a reason, doesn’t it? I heard one guy on the radio talk about the beauty of this sport and said that his family has been involved in dog fighting for three generations (“The pit bulls are doing what they’ve been bred to do”).

Some are bothered that people care more about animal cruelty than the killing children via abortion. Others are disturbed that people are more upset by this than the lack of support the US troops are receiving in Washington or the ongoing genocide in Darfur.

IMHO, the biggest minefield for the NFL lies with the Player's Union and the players themselves. Most of the players are African-American and the longer this thing goes and the more interviews done, the greater the likelihood that charges of racism and inequity will arise. The media will exacerbate the problem as usual and this thing could get very ugly, very fast.

I already expect that the NFL’s new “Get Tough” policy is already going over like a lead balloon with several players and we will be hearing players griping about it during training camp interviews. The NFL holds the purse strings but the players can use the sports media to their advantage. They can cause a lot of headaches for Goodell and company.

Bottom line, it's in the NFL's best interests to urge the prosecutors to offer a deal and get it over with as quickly as possible. On-going protests by animal rights groups and dissention among the players over Vick’s treatment by the league aren’t pleasant prospects.

Even if Vick gets sentenced to 6 years (the maximum) on the animal cruelty charges, etc., he’ll be out in 3 years if he behaves himself. Will justice had been served? No, not really. But he entered a “not guilty” plea today so I guess he believes he has a chance of beating it.

Now, just imagine the fun if he is found “innocent” after a trial or the case is thrown out on a technicality or something. Won’t that create another public relations dilemma for the NFL?

[Rastak]

More on dog face Vick....ESPN....



RICHMOND, Va. -- The hearings began eight minutes early and finished in less than 25 minutes -- Michael Vick's first taste of the famed "rocket docket" in Richmond, Va. -- and they brought Vick some bad news.


With a team of five lawyers at his side, Vick learned that more charges probably will be added to the array of gruesome federal dogfighting allegations already filed against him. Too, he was told that his two-week jury trial will begin at 9:30 on the morning of Nov. 26.

"That's 9:30 sharp," U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson said, making it clear there will be no unnecessary postponements.

The worse of those two news items for Vick came from Asst. U.S. Attorney Michael Gill, who told Hudson that the federal government will be filing a "superceding indictment" by the end of next month. Although legal experts can disagree on what might come in the new indictment, the federal prosecutors in Richmond typically add charges in superceding indictments. It is unlikely they will eliminate charges.

The message from the government prosecutors to Vick and his three co-defendants (Purnell Peace, Quanis Phillips, and Tony Taylor) was not subtle. Here's the message: We've already charged you with serious crimes. You might want to consider a guilty plea. We are going to file more charges next month. That gives you a few weeks to think about the guilty plea. If you come and talk to us about pleading guilty and testifying for us, there will be no more charges against you. If you do not, the charges and the potential punishment will grow quickly.

Although Vick is unlikely to respond to the pressure in that message, it is possible that one or two of the others could seek a lesser jail sentence, or no jail at all, in return for testifying against Vick.

Each of the other three defendants -- all of whom, like Vick, also pleaded not guilty and were released on bond and given the same trial date as Vick on Thursday -- has retained private counsel separate from Vick's legal team. None of them will use a public defender.

The government's revelation of the possibility of additional charges came in the second of two rapid-fire, staccato hearings conducted at the tempo of a top-of-the line marching band. U.S. Magistrate Judge Demmos Dohnal ran through the federal bail litany in what must have been record time, ordering Vick to give up his licenses for a dog kennel and for the breeding of dogs. Dohnal then released him. Less than five seconds after Dohnal had finished, Hudson walked in and continued the breakneck pace.

If anyone had any doubt that Vick's celebrity might change the court's usual pace, Hudson cleared it up quickly. Lawrence Woodward, one of Vick's lawyers, argued that a speedy trial is not possible under the Richmond rules. There is no way, Woodward said, to be ready for trial on Oct. 4, which is what the rules require. He described the complexity of the charges, the need for forensic analysis of some of the dead dogs, and the multi-state nature of the charges.

Hudson listened and ruled instantly, as he did on every other issue during the hearing.

"Yes," Hudson said, "I will treat this case as complex litigation."

And then he set it for trial on Nov. 26, about eight weeks later than the date required by normal docket rules. Woodward and the rest of Vick's legal team likely were hoping for an eight-month delay rather than an eight-week delay. It was apparent that Hudson is serious about the November date.

Vick and the Atlanta Falcons now know what the quarterback will be doing this fall.

Hudson laid out a schedule for the pre-trial skirmishing that is always a part of a major federal conspiracy prosecution. Vick's lawyers might have an advantage in the speedy pre-trial procedures in that they come equipped with money and staff, so it is likely they'll be able to outwork federal prosecutors who must tend to other cases and won't be able to focus solely on Vick.

In another sign of the quick-step culture of the Richmond courthouse, Hudson told the lawyers he will select a jury in "a half a day." With enormous media coverage expected, coupled with the severity of the charges described in the indictment, two veteran Richmond defense lawyers -- both of whom have histories with Hudson -- thought it would take as much as a week to find 12 jurors who haven't already made up their minds on Vick.

"If Judge Hudson says a half a day, then it will be a half a day," one of them observed after the hearings.

Lester Munson, a Chicago lawyer and journalist who has been reporting on investigative and legal issues in the sports industry for 18 years, is a Senior Writer for ESPN.com.

[Freak Out]

In another sign of the quick-step culture of the Richmond courthouse, Hudson told the lawyers he will select a jury in "a half a day." With enormous media coverage expected, coupled with the severity of the charges described in the indictment, two veteran Richmond defense lawyers -- both of whom have histories with Hudson -- thought it would take as much as a week to find 12 jurors who haven't already made up their minds on Vick.

"If Judge Hudson says a half a day, then it will be a half a day," one of them observed after the hearings.

I like the fact that this Judge does not mess around but "half a day" is not very long when court opens at 09:30.

Vick is going to find out who his friends are in this one. He should have stuck to fighting birds.

[Scott Campbell]

3. Even if Vick gets the maximum, he'll play football again somewhere - Arena League, Canada, Semi-Pro.

Or in the Penal League. Or in The Longest Yard III.

[Scott Campbell]

"I take these charges very seriously and look forward to clearing my good name," Vick said........

Good name???

At least he hasn't lost his sence of humor.

[GBRulz]

Did anyone catch the full interview with Drew Carey on Letterman? I just saw a clip where Drew said "If Michael Vick is the QB of the Atlanta Falcons this year, I will never watch an NFL game again" and the whole crowd got up and cheered. I was just wondering what else was talked about besides that comment.

I don't see this case as being swept under the rug through a plea deal. Even after the legal system has ran it's course, there will be more protests to come. Either people claiming racism or people with money get off easy. No matter the outcome, it won't go away immediately.

[MJZiggy]

Racism?? No, no you have that wrong. They classify dogs by BREED.

(btw, like I've posted before, if he wants to play the race card, he shouldn't bother looking to Al Sharpton for help cause he won't find any there)

[Kiwon]

3. Even if Vick gets the maximum, he'll play football again somewhere - Arena League, Canada, Semi-Pro.

Or in the Penal League. Or in The Longest Yard III.

I watched the new "The Longest Yard" last week. Michael Irvin had a major role in that one. Actually, Vick would be perfect for an updated, hard-core version of the film (as a con, of course).

[Kiwon]

Racism?? No, no you have that wrong. They classify dogs by BREED.

(btw, like I've posted before, if he wants to play the race card, he shouldn't bother looking to Al Sharpton for help cause he won't find any there)

MJZ, I respect your opinion but I think that you're underestimating the strength of the racial prism that most African-Americans look through. When a case involves a high profile person like Michael Vick, the reds, yellows, blues, and purples disappear and things become very black and white in a hurry.

Michael Vick won't have to play the race card because there will be plenty of people doing it for him.

Racial divide

By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports

July 26, 2007

RICHMOND, Va. – The crowded, chaotic sidewalk on Main Street, across from the federal courthouse, was an unlikely location for a lesson on the virtues of the fifth amendment.

But standing behind a throng that wanted a pound of Michael Vick's flesh – people that had just screamed for the Atlanta Falcons quarterback to "burn in hell" and held signs advocating his murder, torture and neutering – was Thomas Smith in work boots and a white t-shirt.

High above his head he held a simple sign with just a single word: "Constitution."

"These folks have convicted a man who hasn't even had a chance to defend himself," said Smith. "They just forget everything about America."

But here was America in full force, full vision, mixing it up while Vick pled not guilty to federal charges pertaining to an alleged dog-fighting ring on property he owned in rural Surry County. And front and center, impossible to ignore, was race.

Like Smith, almost all of the people supporting Vick or holding signs pleading for "due process" and "innocence until proven guilty" were African American.

On the other side was an emotional, angry, passionate anti-Vick group that was overwhelmingly white.

Certainly not every animal rights supporter was screaming for Vick to die. Many were just there to support the cause of caring for animals, ending the barbaric practice of dog fighting and using the massive media presence to benefit good.

But a significant number were focused on Vick. When he emerged from a black SUV and made a slow walk up a ramp and into the courthouse, they pushed toward police barriers and let loose.

"Burn in hell you (expletive) (expletive)," repeatedly screamed
one woman.

"Die like those dogs," shouted another.

Not long after Vick got inside the courthouse – and in a scene that was repeated when he left less than two hours later – the two sides clashed in shouted voices and dueling signs.

White people screaming for justice; black people asking if they still remember everything justice entails.

That a case involving dog fighting can break so quickly along racial lines is a testament to how it bubbles below just about everything in this country. We all wish it wasn't so, including both sides here. No one wanted this. Almost no one even wanted to acknowledge it. But it was there, plain as day in black and white.

"I wouldn't say it's a racial thing," said David Williams, an African American, in a hopeful tone. "It's not racial. But for these animal rights people to take one person and crucify him isn't fair."

The thing is, the "animal rights people" here were an estimated 90 percent white. The pro-Vick/due process crowd was probably 95 percent black.

Obviously, both animal rights advocates and due process proponents come in all colors. And certainly a circus show like this, revved up by a massive media presence, isn't representative of America.

But, then again, I also know what I saw and what I heard.

"They are not going to give the man a chance?" Williams said. "You're innocent until proven guilty. He hasn't even had a trial yet."

There should be two undeniable, 100 percent agreed upon truths concerning this case: First, dog fighting is a barbaric felony and whoever participated in it on Vick's property should get hammered by the justice system.

Second, Vick deserves the right to defend against the charges. The indictment cites four "cooperating witnesses," but presuming each is a dog fighter himself, potentially facing prosecution unless they rolled on Vick, who and how reliable are they?

That said, the U.S. Attorney's office is known for its detail and diligence – this isn't some hack county prosecutor like the Duke lacrosse case. They rarely lose, so the challenge for Vick is serious and significant. But he has the right to fight.

"This is going to be a hard-fought trial," agreed Billy Martin, Vick's attorney.

It may not be any less intense than the scene out on Main Street, where two sides, clearly divided and easily identifiable, both anchored in righteous beliefs and moral causes went at it.

Two black women held a sign declaring: "I support Mike Vick due process." That caused vocal jeering from the protesters, which in turn caused the women to taunt them back by waving the sign at them. Later two men had to be separated by security as their debate descended toward physical confrontation, all as a crowd surrounded shouting in all directions.

And on and on it went on this hot Southern sidewalk.

[Rastak]

Who wants to venture a guess what the plea deal will include?
Certain testimony for the prosecution would be the proper answer.
Now they have 5 guys lined up to point the finger at the arsehole who ran this operation with his bankroll.

Plea hearing for co-defendant of Vick set for Monday
ESPN.com news services

Updated: July 28, 2007, 7:44 AM ET

Vick Co-Defendant to Plead GuiltyRICHMOND, Va. -- One of Michael Vick's co-defendants doesn't want to wait for trial.

Instead, a plea agreement hearing has been scheduled for Tony Taylor at 9 a.m. Monday in the federal dogfighting conspiracy case.

Taylor's hearing was added to U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson's docket Friday, a day after he and the other three defendants pleaded not guilty before the same judge. Vick and the others still are scheduled for trial Nov. 26.

Prosecutors claim Taylor, 34, found the Surry County property purchased by Vick and used it as the site of "Bad Newz Kennels," a dogfighting enterprise. The Hampton man also allegedly helped purchase pit bulls and killed at least two dogs that fared poorly in test fights.


ESPN's Kelly Naqi reported that according to sources, Taylor and Vick used to be close friends, but had a falling out in their relationship about three years ago.


Taylor's lawyer, Stephen Ashton Hudgins of Newport News, did not immediately return a phone message, and federal prosecutors have declined to talk about the case.

An 18-page indictment issued July 17 charged the four men with conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities, and conspiring to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. The maximum punishment is five years in prison and fines of up to $250,000.

According to the indictment, the dogfighting ring executed underperforming dogs by drowning, hanging and other brutal means. It alleges that the fights offered purses as high as $26,000.

The gruesome details outlined in the indictment have fueled protests and public outrage against Vick, the star quarterback of the Atlanta Falcons. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has banned Vick from the Falcons' training camp while the league investigates.

Charged along with Vick and Taylor are Purnell A. Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach, and Quanis L. Phillips, 28, of Atlanta.

All four remain free without bond. When U.S. Magistrate Dennis Dohnal set the conditions for their release Thursday, he commended Taylor for admitting to using illegal drugs despite never being convicted of a drug offense. He ordered periodic drug testing for Taylor.

Peace and Phillips each have drug convictions and were ordered to submit to testing, as well as an electronic monitoring program. Taylor was spared the electronic monitoring.

Neither drug testing nor monitoring were ordered for Vick.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[Kiwon]

If Vick has any brains he will change his plea from "not guilty" to "guilty." I wonder what advice these guys received that makes them think that they will be found not guilty in a jury trial.

Taylor is the first domino. Who's next?

The Feds are probably wanting Vick to rat out some higher ups but snitching is the cardinal sin in the circles he runs in. So does he risk a trial or go down in history as a snitch and throw away his street cred? It's a tough choice for him.

I just hope this thing doesn't turn into O.J. - part 2.

[Scott Campbell]

"These folks have convicted a man who hasn't even had a chance to defend himself," said Smith. "They just forget everything about America."

I support due process for Mike Vick - in the courtroom. Mike Vick has had none of his constitutional rights violated. The guy who said this never understood America in the first place.

I don't care if it was Peyton Manning or Larry Bird. Systematically executing dogs for it's entertainment value is depicable, and anyone engaging in Vicks's alleged behavior deserves the harshest possible consequences.

[Rastak]

If Vick has any brains he will change his plea from "not guilty" to "guilty." I wonder what advice these guys received that makes them think that they will be found not guilty in a jury trial.

Taylor is the first domino. Who's next?

The Feds are probably wanting Vick to rat out some higher ups but snitching is the cardinal sin in the circles he runs in. So does he risk a trial or go down in history as a snitch and throw away his street cred? It's a tough choice for him.

I just hope this thing doesn't turn into O.J. - part 2.

It's possible there is a higher up ut I don't think so....he's the guy running the show. I don't know if there is a larger organized network but if there is, Vick would be wise to start singing. I agree with the "guilty plea" comment. He's screwed.