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No, the way I see it, he has to plead not guilty and stick with that plea. If he pleads guilty, he gets crucified by the public. If he maintains the not guilty plea, he will always be able to claim that he wasn't responsible or framed or however he wants to phrase it and there will always be a few who might even believe it.
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"Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg Jennings -
Originally posted by MJZiggy
Would you trade 5 years in the can for the right to claim you were framed? Not me......he better realize they are not playing around here. They are filing additional charges which could put him away for a while if things don't go his way and something tells me they ain't goin his way.Comment
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I guess it would have to depend on the plea deal because I doubt they let him off too easy if he pleads guilty. From what I read, it just sounded like it didn't get any worse for him than it already is."Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg JenningsComment
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I'm wondering what Vick is fighting for. Is he fighting to minimize his jail time, or is he fighting to save his NFL carreer. Those two goals might involve different strategies.
Would a guilty plea end his NFL carreer?Comment
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Originally posted by Kiwon
I think more will talk. That cardinal sin usually only holds water until someone breaks ranks. Then the rats start feeding on eachother.Comment
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Deion Sanders
Don’t be too quick to judge
By Deion Sanders
Originally published on July 22, 2007
• Editor's Note: Deion Sanders, a North Fort Myers High School graduate, played in the NFL and Major League Baseball. He works as an analyst for the NFL Network and is part-owner of the Austin Wranglers of the Arena Football League. HIs column is published every Sunday in The News-Press and online at news-press.com.
Here's his column
I would’ve never thought Mike Vick, one of the NFL’s most exciting players — the man who makes the network execs smile every time he plays — would ever be indicted for crimes against man’s best friend.
The potential impact could be devastating.
He could lose millions worth of endorsements. Nike has already suspended the release of his new shoe. He could lose millions he was supposed to get from the Atlanta Falcons, if the club decides to cut him. That’s unlikely, but it could happen if he’s convicted or makes a plea arrangement.
Or his reputation might wind up so stained that he’s never forgiven in the court of public opinion. That would be too bad for the 27-year-old superstar.
This is all the result of perspective.
What a dog means to Vick might be a lot different than what he means to you or I. Hold on, don’t start shaking your head just yet. Listen to me.
Some people kiss their dogs on the mouth. Some people let their dogs eat from their plate. Some people dress their dogs in suits more expensive than mine, if you can believe that.
And some people enjoy proving they have the biggest, toughest dog on the street. You’re probably not going to believe this, but I bet Vick loves the dogs that were the biggest and the baddest. Maybe, he identified with them in some way.
You can still choose to condemn him, but I’m trying to take you inside his mind so you can understand where he might be coming from.
I’m sure all of the animal activists and Humane Society folks have a dart board with Vick’s picture in the center of it. And if he plays this season, PETA is going to picket every stadium where he plays.
Still, I must ask the question: Where is all of this going?
By now you’ve read all of the accusations about the cruelty involving the dogs — and I’m not just talking about their duels to the death. All of that is enough to make me cringe because I have three highly-trained protection German shepherds, just in case someone wants to rob my family.
Believe me, you don’t want to deal with them. With one German command, our dog Yascho turns into Cujo. And for the record, I live around the corner from the police station, so it won’t take them long to show up and save you from the dogs.
Now back to Vick.
Why are we indicting him? Was he the ringleader? Is he the big fish? Or is there someone else? The fights allegedly occurred at a property that he purchased for a family member. They apparently found carcasses on the property, but I must ask you again, is he the ringleader?
This situation reminds me of a scene in the movie “New Jack City,” when drug dealer Nino Brown is on the witness stand and eloquently says, “This thing is bigger than me.”
Are we using Vick to get to the ringleader? Are we using him to bring an end to dogfighting in the United States?
The only thing I can gather from this situation is that we’re using Vick.
Was he wrong? Absolutely. Was he stupid? Can’t argue with that. Was he immature? No doubt. But is he the ringleader? I just can’t see it.
I believe Vick had a passion for dogfighting. I know many athletes who share his passion. The allure is the intensity and the challenge of a dog fighting to the death. It’s like ultimate fighting, but the dog doesn’t tap out when he knows he can’t win.
It reminds me of when I wore a lot of jewelry back in the day because I always wanted to have the biggest chain or the biggest, baddest car. It gives you status.
Can I pause for a moment to ask you a question?
Who shot Darrant Williams? Remember the Denver Bronco cornerback? I’m just more concerned about bringing to justice someone who killed a human. Or finding out who broke into Miami Heat forward Antoine Walker’s home, tied him up and robbed him at gunpoint.
We’re attacking this dogfighting ring the same way a teenager attacks his MySpace page after school (by the way parents, make sure you monitor your kids). We should have the same passion for man that we have for man’s best friend.
The reason this is turning into a three-ring circus is that baseball is boring, basketball is months away, football is around the corner and we in the media don’t have a thing interesting to write about.
How will this end up? I have no idea. All I know is Falcons fans better pray because Vick’s backup is Joey Harrington. Enough said.
God bless and God willing I’ll hollah at you next week.
— Deion Sanders, a North Fort Myers High School graduate, played in the NFL and Major League Baseball. He works as an analyst for the NFL Network and is part-owner of the Austin Wranglers of the Arena Football League.Comment
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Originally posted by Scott CampbellOriginally posted by Scott Campbell
Funny, if Deion is more concerned about who killed Darrant Williams, why didn't he write a column about that?
I think Deion just "used" Darrant Williams tragic death to make a point about Mike Vick not being such a big deal.Comment
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I kinda agree with Deion.
*Ducks for cover*
Seriously, I can see why Vick pleads not guilty. Beyond a reasonable doubt is a high standard to meet, and if he is acquitted, people's memories are shorter than you think.
Anybody remember when a guy named Ray Lewis was caught up in a double murder? He was cleared criminally, and it didn't take very long for the court of public opinion---as fickle as it is---to move on to another outrage. He even has endorsement deals again.
I think Vick is playing for the win. A "guilty" plea is a guaranteed loss.Comment
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Originally posted by the_idle_threat
While I'd never call Idle anything but an all around great guy....Deion is a total moron. His takes on almost everything make me shake my head. He claimed everyone was out to get Tank Williams and that's why he was pulled over. If he never spoke again it would be too soon.
As for Ray Lewis, I watched the entire trial on courttv. Very interesting case, essentially nobody ever said he killed anyone. He helped cover it up and from the evidence I heard he seemed pretty guilty. His thugs got intoa fracus and stabbed a couple guys to death. He allowed them to speed off in his limo. Not a nice thing to do but I was never extremely outraged about Lewis, I was extremely outraged by his posse. As for Lewis, it just irritated me to think he figured he could him his buddies because he was the great Ray Lewis.Comment
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Most pertinent quote from Deion article (see 2nd-to-last line):
Originally posted by DeionComment
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PFT.com always has something funny.....the new Vick jersey replacement....( some probably won't get it)
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ESPN
Tony Taylor's expected plea of guilty -- and with it, his future cooperation with prosecutors -- adds to an already impressive array of evidence against Michael Vick in the federal government's dogfighting case against the Atlanta Falcons quarterback.
Taylor is due to enter his guilty plea at 9 a.m. Monday at U.S. District Court in Richmond, Va. His hearing was added to U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson's docket Friday, a day after he and the other three defendants including Vick pleaded not guilty before the same judge.
Taylor was, according to the federal indictment, in the middle of the dogfighting scheme from the beginning. The indictment says Taylor, along with Vick and co-defendant Quanis Phillips, in 2001 "decided to start a venture aimed at sponsoring American Pit Bull Terriers in dogfighting competitions."
When Taylor describes these conversations with Vick and Phillips, it will be powerful evidence against Vick, establishing the conspiracy and opening the door to a mountain of other evidence against Vick. Taylor can establish the conspiracy all by himself, multiplying Vick's problems as he attempts to answer these charges.
The indictment, issued July 17, charged the four men with conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities, and conspiring to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture. The maximum punishment is five years in prison and fines of up to $250,000.
As the scheme grew, according to the indictment, Taylor played a central role. When it was time to build three large sheds to stage fights and to house dogs and equipment, Taylor obtained the necessary permits from the authorities in Surry County. He applied for the building permit for the sheds on May 2, 2003, according to records maintained by Wallace Mavin, the Surry County Building Official, and he paid the necessary fees even though Vick's name was listed as the owner and the applicant. Taylor described himself as Vick's "agent," in the documents. The house and shed, according to applications filed in May 2003, cost $362,000.
Prosecutors claim Taylor, 34, of Hampton, also allegedly helped purchase pit bulls and killed at least two dogs that fared poorly in test fights.
It will be powerful evidence against Vick, putting Vick and his money squarely in the middle of the scheme and its growth and development.
The charges in the indictment also show that Taylor can describe Vick as personally present at fights and at executions of dogs who did not perform well enough for Vick and his cohorts.
Taylor's plea of guilty comes at a critical time. Michael Gill, the assistant U.S. Attorney leading the prosecution, announced on Thursday that he would file a superceding indictment by the end of next month. The superceding indictment is likely to add charges to the gruesome charges already on file. Taylor made his bargain with the federal prosecutors before they were able to add anything to the charges already filed against him.
In addition to the tactical reasons for his plea, Taylor has been reported to feel that Vick betrayed him. Shortly after the first raid on the Vick fifteen-acre compound on Moonlight Road in Surry County, according to various reports, Vick had Taylor thrown off the property. It was part of Vick's effort to distance himself from the dogfighting operation, an effort that also includes a hasty sale of the property. The sale has not yet been finalized.
Even in the hearings on Thursday, Taylor was separating himself from Vick and the others. Vick, Phillips and Purnell Peace all appeared in court dressed in suits and ties. Taylor showed up in baggy, low slung jeans and a wrinkled yellow shirt. Vick, Phillips and Peace ignored Taylor during the short hearings and never looked at him as they gathered in the courtroom before the hearing began.Comment
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This is absolutely true. Cheats, liars, and crooks everywhere know this and count on it. Barry Bonds, anyone?Originally posted by the_idle_threat
Vick will play football again somewhere, even possibly in the NFL.....if he cops a deal now.
Prisoners with good behavior typically serve less than half their sentences. On the dog fighting charges alone the max is 6 years. He'll be out in 3 or less pending that he keeps out of trouble in prison.
Now what are "the additional charges" the Feds have ready for him if he doesn't cop a deal? Maybe tax evasion, trafficking in illegal interstate commerce, illegal gambling,...who knows? But these charges will be dropped now if he follows Taylor's lead.
Also, Rastak, Vick was neck deep in this sport for at least 6 years. It was a multi-state operation. As a VIP, he met a lot of bad people during that time. Many were into more than just dog fighting. I'm sure that he might have met someone that the Feds are interested in, quite possibly some crooked Virginian politicians and Surry county officials.
The loop on this thing is much wider than many might think. People knew what was going on and they protected Vick's operation. At a minimum, Vick could rat out other kennels that specialized in breeding and selling Pit Bulls for dog fighting.Comment
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Originally posted by Kiwon
Yea Kiwon, good point. If it extends beyond dogfighting he might have some information useful to the feds.
Additional charges are probably gambling related. I wonder if that might be the hammer Godell uses to boot him for a year, then deny his reinstatement each year from now on.......Comment
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I don't know if this was posted in one of the many Vick threads already, it was from a week ago......
Packers: Vick charges don't sit well with Ferguson
JASON WILDE 608-252-6176
jwilde@madison.com
GREEN BAY - Robert Ferguson still remembers, and it makes him sick. He was seven, maybe eight, living in the rough part of Houston, watching something no kid - or anyone, for that matter - should have to see: dogs fighting to the death right in front of his house.
"These guys, they'd have them fight right on the sidewalk. I lived on a dead-end street, and they used to have fights right at the end of the street," the Green Bay Packers' veteran wide receiver recalled. "I saw dogs get shot - if they lost a fight, a guy would just shoot them right there.
"I grew up around that. As a matter of fact, me and neighborhood kids, we used to try to steal the dogs from the guys who were fighting them."
Which is why Ferguson is especially troubled by the allegations against Atlanta Falcons star quarterback Michael Vick, who was indicted by a federal grand jury Tuesday on charges of sponsoring a vicious dogfighting operation in which some weak or losing or dogs were electrocuted, drowned, hanged or shot.
Vick and the other three defendants have been charged with competitive dogfighting, procuring and training pit bulls for fighting and conducting the enterprise across state lines in connection with "a company called 'Bad Newz Kennels,'" in which the dogs were housed, trained and fought on a property owned by Vick in Surry County, Va.
Vick is scheduled to appear in district court in Richmond, Va., Tuesday, the day the Falcons are set to open training camp. If convicted, Vick and the others could face up to six years in prison, $350,000 in fines and restitution.
Ferguson, who like Vick entered the NFL in 2001, said he knows Vick but "out of respect for him, I won't speculate on that situation. All I know is what's been said."
Packers defensive end Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila, who owns two dogs and serves as a spokesman for the Green Bay-area humane society, said he hopes people don't look at the case and say it's "just dogs."
"I have a brother who doesn't like dogs. He's kicked it before. I'm like, 'What are you doing?' And he'll say, 'It's just a dog,' " Gbaja-Biamila said. "That's not a good mentality to have. God created all these creatures, and it's our responsibility to take care of them, to keep them safe, and not put them in a situation where they get hurt. You don't treat any living thing like that. It's inhumane.
"As far as Vick, I don't know his involvement. But whoever does it, it's wrong. Clearly. Whoever it is. Whatever happens, I hope justice is served."
As the owner of two pit bulls and an advocate for the breed, Ferguson said the high-profile case will bring much-needed attention to the appalling nature of dogfighting. In 2003, Ferguson organized an anti-dogfighting group in Houston - with the slogan "Punish the deed, not the breed" - and when news of the dogfighting operation on Vick's property broke in April, Ferguson teamed up with the Houston chapter of the ASPCA and went to various neighborhoods to talk to children about dogfighting.
"Nothing specific to Vick, just in general, dogfighting is flat-out wrong. Period. Regardless of who it is and who's involved," Ferguson said. "That's cut-and-dried, black-and-white. It's against the law. It's what every civilized person in America should think about. If I could bring you some pictures of dogs who've been in dogfights, you'd understand.
"Anytime you get a high-profile guy like (Vick) involved in something as serious as dogfighting, of course it's going to heighten the awareness."
Ferguson said he has always had neighbors in his Green Bay-area subdivision ask about his pit bulls and whether they were dangerous. He believes the breed is unfairly singled out as being aggressive and mean, and he hopes in the wake of the Vick case, people blame the men who trained the dogs rather than the dogs themselves.
"People way up here in Green Bay are now thinking because it's a pit bull, because Michael Vick's name is involved, that they're fighting dogs," Ferguson said. "I have to explain to them, it's not the breed of dogs that fight, it's the people.
"Anyone in my neighborhood will tell you - the only thing my dogs will do is lick you to death. I walk 'em every day and they're social. They're like any other dog. I think any dog will bite. Not just a pit bull, any dog. A labrador will bite you. A chihuahua, a little Taco Bell dog, will bite you. It's the way you bring a dog up and how you raise him."Comment
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