JOLLY SHINING

[Scott Campbell]

If Jolly turns out to be a great run stopper with decent pass rushing skills than the Harrell pick was a waste because that’s exactly what Harrell will give us.

It appears to me that there is a different strategy in play here. Having clones on the DL does is not a sign of "wasted picks" - if this staff's strategy is to rotate fresh DL's in.

The only plausible reason for drafting Harrell when we appeared less despearate at DT than at RB, S or WR is that this staff puts a tremendous premium on rotating fresh bodies into the lineup at that position.

That, and we assume he was Ted's BPA.

[HarveyWallbangers]

People wanted the Packers take a safety. If Underwood suddenly made a big jump this offseason and looked like he could be a solid starter, would that have meant drafting a safety was a waste? Hell, Underwood showed as much or more than Jolly did last year.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

If Jolly turns out to be a great run stopper with decent pass rushing skills than the Harrell pick was a waste because that’s exactly what Harrell will give us.

It appears to me that there is a different strategy in play here. Having clones on the DL does is not a sign of "wasted picks" - if this staff's strategy is to rotate fresh DL's in.

The only plausible reason for drafting Harrell when we appeared less despearate at DT than at RB, S or WR is that this staff puts a tremendous premium on rotating fresh bodies into the lineup at that position.

That, and we assume he was Ted's BPA.

I understand your point on rotating and keeping people fresh. But to spend a first round pick on a position of strength, the player must be exceptional and I really hope he is.

[Fritz]

I'm guessing that perhaps TT will let the season play out, and if the current top five play well and Harrell and Jolly develop, then TT will tag Williams with a second round tender, perhaps hoping someone will bite.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

People wanted the Packers take a safety. If Underwood suddenly made a big jump this offseason and looked like he could be a solid starter, would that have meant drafting a safety was a waste? Hell, Underwood showed as much or more than Jolly did last year.

The pick is only wasted if Harrell is not exceptionally better than every player we have at DT. If we picked a safety in the first and he couldn't beat out Underwood or Manuel or didn't turn out to be a lot better in the long run than the pervious starter then that is a wasted pick, but if he is a big upgrade the pick is not wasted. I expect every first round pick we make to be great player, that’s why I’m questioning this pick because I don’t know how much better Harrell will be than Pickett, Williams, etc. I really hope Harrell turns out though.

[AV David]

"I'm guessing that perhaps TT will let the season play out, and if the current top five play well and Harrell and Jolly develop, then TT will tag Williams with a second round tender, perhaps hoping someone will bite."


Williams will be an unrestricted FA after this season. The tenders only apply to 3rd year players who are restricted free agents.

[Guiness]

This certainly does make it interesting. Even if Williams is the low man on the totem pole, he's still certainly very serviceable. You have to think we can get something for one of these guys - DT is a horribly difficult position to fill, and even having four good players there is a lot more than most teams can say.

[rpiotr01]

People wanted the Packers take a safety. If Underwood suddenly made a big jump this offseason and looked like he could be a solid starter, would that have meant drafting a safety was a waste? Hell, Underwood showed as much or more than Jolly did last year.

The pick is only wasted if Harrell is not exceptionally better than every player we have at DT. If we picked a safety in the first and he couldn't beat out Underwood or Manuel or didn't turn out to be a lot better in the long run than the pervious starter then that is a wasted pick, but if he is a big upgrade the pick is not wasted. I expect every first round pick we make to be great player, that’s why I’m questioning this pick because I don’t know how much better Harrell will be than Pickett, Williams, etc. I really hope Harrell turns out though.

I agree generally, but two things:

If you expect every first round pick the team makes to be a great player you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Odds of players being great outside the top 5 or so diminish very quickly as you go down the first round. The best you can reasonably hope for is that they turn out to be good players. For example, I wouldn't call Barnett a great player, but he's about as good as it gets considering where he was drafted.

Other thing is, I don't think it's out of line to expect Harrell to be better than all of our other DTs... I just think it's way out of line to expect him to be better THIS YEAR. That isn't going to happen. I like him a lot and I can see him being a monster in the middle, but rookie DTs don't pop in and become monsters in their first season. I believe Harrell will get there, and that 2-3 years from now, who knows, maybe Harrell-Jolly will be GB's version of the Williams boys or Harris-Johnson. That seems to be the plan, anyway.

[Carolina_Packer]

I just heard John Clayton talking about being in Rams camp and being very impressed with how Adam Carriker was dominating. Obviously, tossing guys around in practice is one thing and doing it in game situations is different. I guess they are moving Carriker to interior lineman from what I understood and he's a beast, tossing guys around, etc. Sure would be nice to see those flashes from Harrell, but given his injury and the relative recovery time, and rust he needs to shake off to get in football shape, I agree that it might be a bit much to expect lots of production this year. He'd be clearing my bar if he was a valuable man in the DL rotation, where there wasn't a lot of drop-off when he went into the game, and he could blow up plays and get a push on the O-line, but holding the point of attack would be cool too, letting our undersized LB's clean it up.

[RashanGary]

Pickett has three more years in GB. Jolly will take one more year to fully develop. Harrell will take two years to fully develop. Williams is fully developed. Williams and Harrell can both play power end on run downs.

I say keep them all and have one of the deepest, most powerfull Dlines in the NFL. Eventually let Pickett walk, but get milage out of his legs as long as we're paying him.

[RashanGary]

Goalline

Jenkins / Jolly / Pickett / Williams



Obvious passing downs

KGB / Jenkins / Williams / Kampman



Base

Jenkins / (Jolly, Williams) / Pickett / Kampman



There are many other situations like 3rd and short or 2nd and short that you can mix and match personal. There is no reason to let any of them go IMO. I say just run the deepest and one of the strongest Dlines in football for the next couple years. We might see our defense establish itself as top 5 this year.

[Partial]

That said, Wells really didn't have much trouble walking Harrell back two yds into the end zone on Jackson's TD run.

Harrell has looked very pedestrian... I'm not worried about him though, coming back from the bicep injury is going to take time. I had hoped that Harrell could be in the starting lineup on run downs, but at this point he's not even close to ready.

I watched a different scrimmage. I didn't see who was in there on Jackson's two runs from the one. He was stuffed on one, and scored on the other. However, I watched Harrell on a few plays in the scrimmage. On two runs up the middle, the RB was stuffed for a 1-2 yard gains. On another, he walked Barbre into the backfield and knocked down a Rodgers pass. I don't think he looked as poor as it's been reported. At the worst, I think he can be a good run defender early.

I think the biggest thing is he is probably getting winded really easily, still. It's only been a week. I think the story will be very different 4 weeks from now.

[Partial]

Pickett has three more years in GB. Jolly will take one more year to fully develop. Harrell will take two years to fully develop. Williams is fully developed. Williams and Harrell can both play power end on run downs.

I say keep them all and have one of the deepest, most powerfull Dlines in the NFL. Eventually let Pickett walk, but get milage out of his legs as long as we're paying him.

If Jolly is starting and playing that well, no way do they keep Corey Williams. My guess is they try to work out a sign and trade.

[rbaloha1]

Trade

If Jolly is the real deal, trade Corey Williams for a minimum second round pick or an offensive playmaker

Corey is scheduled for free agency next season. Coupled by a good 2006 season and sixth round status it is prudent to get as much as possible.

A compensatory pick is inadequate. Furthermore a great year is too much for the salary cap vis a' vis: Kampman, Jenkins, Pickett, Harrel, KGB.

[MJZiggy]

I can understand the idea the Jolly's having a nice camp and all, but aren't we jumping the gun just a bit wanting to trade away Williams on Jolly's potential? I'd like to see how he handles games and such first...