Ahman!

[Scott Campbell]

..........would you take the money to you're grave with you and never spend it..........

I don't think your analogy works. Much of the money that Ahman would have got will eventually be spent on another player(s). Or car in your example. So nobody will be riding a bike.

There is where TT can't be given an out.

If he banked 5 Grand for Ahman and that was his top dollar and The Texans pushed t outside of TT's ego boundry then TT had to get something equitable in terms of talent in return. IMO.

To hear him (TT) spout off on his confidence in what we had (slash) have at RB in Greens absence and nothing else brought in. Is like a neglectful stock portfolio manager failing to upgrade the portfolio to the standard expected by his client. Our position at RB in 2006 (with Green clearly as our finest RB) and a respected Packer as well. He was on the verge of setting records at his position, a long time top producer in our colors who was extremely valuable and had a loyal fan following and respect.

To see Ahman go over money and nothing done after that but play the carte blance card is 'the real suck'.

It's like going into a poker game for six, with five others at the table all buying in for a grand each, and TT the 6th player decides to play with $400.00 as his stake.

TT begins the game with a decisive advantage against him (NO compensating POWER).

His incompetence demonstrated in saying or standing on what he has remaining at RB is like the worlds worst poker player who trys a bluff tactic too soon into the game and too often before he's the first removed.

In other words TT has demonstrated clear stupidity in terms of our needs in the running game.

That's the proper word here. STUPID !

Man, you sure seem to hate the guy. I don't buy into any of this "ego" stuff. Just because you don't like what he's doing, it doesn't make the guy an egomanic. He certainly doesn't grab the microphone or preen for the cameras like an egomaniac.

You are also wrong about "nothing else brought in". He drafted 2 RB's. You could argue that Jackson and Wynne aren't good enough, but you can't say he didn't do anything. It's factually incorrect and makes you sound like an angry hater.

[Bretsky]

Kinda funny because Green can't hold Taylors jock.

It's not like the position was strong with Green there. Calling Green a pro bowler is assisnine because he hasn't had a good year since 2003. He had one big run all last year.

Taylor had 1,146 rushing yards last year, Green had 1,059. They each had 5 rushing TD's. I would say that they had comparable years rushing.

As a reciever, Taylor had 23 receptions for 242 yards and a TD, Green had 46 receptions for 373 yards and a TD.

I would like to add that Green was the Packers 3rd leading reciever last year behind Driver and Jennings......he actually had 1 more reception than Jennings.

The thing that I see as being asinine, is anyone suggesting that Green was not a major contributer on the Packers Offense. The Packers do not have a single running back on their roster that could hold Green's jock-strap. All things considered, we don't even know for a fact if we have any WR's behind Driver that can hold Green's jock-strap, we didn't last year.

Taylor is a top 12 or so running backs ever. He split carries last year with MJD and still had huge stats.

He is extremely talented and has a ton of yards. Problem is he has never stayed healthy throughout his entire career. It is one of those things that makes you wonder how many yards he would have if healthy!!

Comparing careers, Ahman can't compare to Fred Taylor. Not even close.

THIS IS A LOAD OF BUNK; can't carry the jock strap ? The facts would disagree.

First off Fred Taylor is nowhere near a top 12 back right now.

Secondly, I was curious enough to look at the facts of the situation. Here is a comparison of Taylor and Green over the Past Five Years an the looked back at year six as well. In one of the past five years, Ahman was hurt most of the year so his stats were near nothing. His numbers are still very similar.

If we go back over the last six years then Ahman Green's numbers are better than Fred Taylor's

PAST FIVE YEARS (remember Ahman had only a couple hundred yards in 05)

Fred Taylor Games 72 Yards 5900 TD's 24
Ahm Green Games 64 Yards 5500 TD's 34

This takes into consideration 2005, in which Green had 5 Games and 255yds

GOING BACK ONE MORE YEAR, in 2001

Ahman Green had 1387 yards and 9 TD's
Fred Taylor had 116 yards and No TD's


Taylor came into the league in 1998
Green came into the league in 1998

Career Stats

Ahman Green 8491Yds 4.5 YPC 54 Rush TD's 2700Yds Rec 14TD Rec
Fred Taylor 9513 Yds 4.6 YPC 56 Rush TD's 2200Yds Rec 8 TD Rec[/u]


And if you look at the stats you will also see Green had virtually NO STATS for two years while he was in Holmgren's doghouse. His first year in GB he had nearly 1200 yards right off the bat.

Taylor had 20 of his TD's and about 2,000 years in his first two years.

So stat wise Green has been the better back since the year 2,000

I think they are very comparable, and like I said, once Taylor got his deal I had a painful feeling TT would let Ahman go.

[RashanGary]

Damn, Green is going to get 10,000 yards in the next two years. He might make the case for the HOF if he gets to that 10,000 yard mark.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I agree with Bretsky. Considering everything, I'd take Ahman over Taylor. Taylor has played two more full seasons as a starter over Ahman and the results are pretty similar.

That being said, I'm not willing to panic on the running game. While the running game wasn't great last year (and I don't think it will be great this year), we struggled even more last year running the ball in the preseason. There may be something to the fact we aren't scheming or cutting as much as usual.

I took a look back to last year. Our top three RBs (Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, and Samkon Gado) combined for 157 yards on 62 carries (2.5 yards/carry). They didn't have a game where they averaged more than 2.7 yards/carry. Ahman averaged 2.3 yards/carry, and I don't believe any of the three came close to averaging 3 yards/carry. Jackson's 3.3 yards/carry are good in comparison.

Ahman, Najeh, and Samkon combined in the preseason last year:

vs. San Diego - 9 carries, 18 yards (2.0 yards/carry)
vs. Atlanta - 11 carries, 29 yards (2.6 yards/carry)
vs. Cincinnati - 23 carries, 62 yards (2.7 yards/carry)
vs. Tennessee - 19 carries, 48 yards (2.5 yards/carry)

[Bretsky]

I agree with Bretsky. Considering everything, I'd take Ahman over Taylor. Taylor has played two more full seasons as a starter over Ahman and the results are pretty similar.

That being said, I'm not willing to panic on the running game. While the running game wasn't great last year (and I don't think it will be great this year), we struggled even more last year running the ball in the preseason. There may be something to the fact we aren't scheming or cutting as much as usual.

I took a look back to last year. Our top three RBs (Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, and Samkon Gado) combined for 157 yards on 62 carries (2.5 yards/carry). They didn't have a game where they averaged more than 2.7 yards/carry. Ahman averaged 2.3 yards/carry, and I don't believe any of the three came close to averaging 3 yards/carry. Jackson's 3.3 yards/carry are good in comparison.

Ahman, Najeh, and Samkon combined in the preseason last year:

vs. San Diego - 9 carries, 18 yards (2.0 yards/carry)
vs. Atlanta - 11 carries, 29 yards (2.6 yards/carry)
vs. Cincinnati - 23 carries, 62 yards (2.7 yards/carry)
vs. Tennessee - 19 carries, 48 yards (2.5 yards/carry)

In our offense I'd also take Ahman over Taylor.

On a sidenote I actually wish we had Da Crapper back on our roster

[HarveyWallbangers]

On a sidenote I actually wish we had Da Crapper back on our roster

Not me. Horrible fit for this scheme, and always injured.

[Partial]

snip.

Are you serious?

Fred Taylor is quietly one of the best running backs to ever play the game. He has consistently produced HUGE yardage.

You posted stats but you ignored the fact that Taylor is always hurt and has been plagued by injuries his entire career. The difference is unlike Ahman he tends to play hurt. This is somewhere that stats don't tell the entire story.

Taylor has averaged 85 yards/game over his career. He has also been far more banged up and played hurt far more often than Ahman. Ahman averages 67 yards per game, almost 20 yards less!!!

That said, Ahman was also used less so his career has had better longevity. He has played in 14 more games, yet has 1100 less yards. He averages fewer yards/carry, has fewer touchdowns, etc.

Most importantly, Ahman did it behind one of the best lines ever for an extended period. Other than an over the hill Tony Boselli, Taylor had pretty average lines and managed to still be a playmaker. That is something Green has yet to prove that he could do.

How you can argue this is ridiculous. Taylor is a ridiculously good player and one of the best ever. If he plays two more seasons he is a hall-of-famer for sure. He is probably one now. Green would have to have two great seasons to get considered.

[Bretsky]

snip.

Are you serious?

Fred Taylor is quietly one of the best running backs to ever play the game. He has consistently produced HUGE yardage.

You posted stats but you ignored the fact that Taylor is always hurt and has been plagued by injuries his entire career. The difference is unlike Ahman he tends to play hurt. This is somewhere that stats don't tell the entire story.

Taylor has averaged 85 yards/game over his career. He has also been far more banged up and played hurt far more often than Ahman. Ahman averages 67 yards per game, almost 20 yards less!!!

That said, Ahman was also used less so his career has had better longevity. He has played in 14 more games, yet has 1100 less yards. He averages fewer yards/carry, has fewer touchdowns, etc.

Most importantly, Ahman did it behind one of the best lines ever for an extended period. Other than an over the hill Tony Boselli, Taylor had pretty average lines and managed to still be a playmaker. That is something Green has yet to prove that he could do.

How you can argue this is ridiculous. Taylor is a ridiculously good player and one of the best ever. If he plays two more seasons he is a hall-of-famer for sure. He is probably one now. Green would have to have two great seasons to get considered.

Fred Taylor playing through injuries ? WOW

I'm not ignorning the stats; I posted the lifetime stats. They are very comparable and Ahman has been better if you don't take into account the first two years.

4.6 Yards per Carry versus 4.5 Yards per Carry Lifetime; how can they not be comparable ??

Ahman Green played in 30 games in his first two years under Holmgren and accumulated 329 yards. PLEASE don't tell me you are using that to come up with your 67 yards per game ?????????????

[RashanGary]

I always thought Taylor was underrated. I thought Travis Henry was underrated too.

[Bretsky]

That said, Ahman was also used less so his career has had better longevity. He has played in 14 more games, yet has 1100 less yards. He averages fewer yards/carry, has fewer touchdowns, etc.


Want to again point out while in Holmgren's doghouse his stats will show he played 30 games his first two years and had 329yds and one TD

Yards per carry are nearly identical
Touchdowns are nearly identical
Green has more TD's receiving and more receiving yards


AND Green all of it for the most part in two less seasons

[Bretsky]

I always thought Taylor was underrated. I thought Travis Henry was underrated too.

I was listening to ESPN radio on way back from Wisconsin Dells today. Some have referred to Henry as the Bang for the Buck signing at RB this year.

Well, from the sounds of it he has a lot of bang in him

Documented fiscal issues last year; he has nine children out of marriage from nine different mothers. Source was the Doug Gotlieb show. Nuts

[RashanGary]

haha, I heard that too. That must suck. His whole paycheck is just pissed away.

There was a time when spreading your seed was more animalistic. It was about being a dominate man with traits that are desirable to a woman. The dominate men would spread their seed to many women and so would go the natural ways of evolution. (the women selected the traits from the best men and the sexual desires that revolve around reproducing the strongest offspring went on like in the rest of the natural world as we know it) Now, the dominate men are taught and learned how NOT to spread their seed. Be it an athlete or a brilliant laywer or doctor. Men know the reprocussions (most do anyway) and the more you ahve to lose and the more desirable your traits are to this world, the more you keep it in your pants.

My whole point is that this child support thing is interrupting the natural chain of the fit surviving and spreading their seed in favor of the fit keeping in their pants adn the desirable traits dying off.

Why am I bringing this up? I don't know but it's a theory of mine, one that is probably already out there and I thought it related.

[Bretsky]

With 9 kids, I wonder how much child support is ? It must be well over 50% of what he makes

[Partial]

That said, Ahman was also used less so his career has had better longevity. He has played in 14 more games, yet has 1100 less yards. He averages fewer yards/carry, has fewer touchdowns, etc.


Want to again point out while in Holmgren's doghouse his stats will show he played 30 games his first two years and had 329yds and one TD

Yards per carry are nearly identical
Touchdowns are nearly identical
Green has more TD's receiving and more receiving yards

Green's biggest years were all behind a great offensive line. Without that, he has shown to nothing more than an average back. Taylor creates things for himself because he has never had a great line.

I did use Ahmans first two years because that is when he had the most yards/carry.

It's not like Taylor played a lot his first couple of years, he missed 23 games in his 2nd and 3rd seasons.

The only players in NFL History to average more yards/carry are Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, OJ Simpson and Tiki Barber. Thats right, he is 5th in NFL history in yards/carry.

His rushing yards/game is 6th all-time in the NFL. The only players with higher averages of rushing yards/game are Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Edgerrin James, Walter Payton, and Rodger Craig.

That is some pretty damn fine company if I do say so myself.

He, like so many other Jaguars, don't get any respect because they are in a small-market team that historically has been pretty bad.

[falco]

haha, I heard that too. That must suck. His whole paycheck is just pissed away.

There was a time when spreading your seed was more animalistic. It was about being a dominate man with traits that are desirable to a woman. The dominate men would spread their seed to many women and so would go the natural ways of evolution. (the women selected the traits from the best men and the sexual desires that revolve around reproducing the strongest offspring went on like in the rest of the natural world as we know it) Now, the dominate men are taught and learned how NOT to spread their seed. Be it an athlete or a brilliant laywer or doctor. Men know the reprocussions (most do anyway) and the more you ahve to lose and the more desirable your traits are to this world, the more you keep it in your pants.

My whole point is that this child support thing is interrupting the natural chain of the fit surviving and spreading their seed in favor of the fit keeping in their pants adn the desirable traits dying off.

Why am I bringing this up? I don't know but it's a theory of mine, one that is probably already out there and I thought it related.

between that your theory about cut blocking this offseason you're a regular Albert Einstein.