The Youth Movement

[Rastak]

That makes sense. Maybe he'll be our DC next year, but Sanders does some pretty good things with the front 4 that I would hate to lose.

They seem to be aggressive in their play calling this year. There were times where the Dline went all out at the quarterback on 1st and 10. Of course they gave up runs when the opposing team ran it but the opposing team had to put together a whole bunch of those to get to the endzone and they don't just guess right every time. So far our starting defense has been completely dominate and I think the aggressivness of the front four is a big part of why.

I just hope they don't take the guess work too far and give up big bombs like last year. So far they havn't. I think Sanders is a big part of that aggressive nature and success of the Dline this preseason. I've heard kamp say that he liked this DC becuase he really utilizes the Dline well. I don't know, I think Sanders has his strenghts, but Moss is probably much better with stuff behind the line as he's been coaching it for longer. They might make a pretty good team. I think the front four and the linebackers are the identity of this defense. I think that speaks for the job that Sanders and Moss are doing together as well as the talent they have been given. As far as fixing what killed us last year, I can definitly buy Moss being the answer more so than Sanders just becuase of the nature of his job experience.

Absolutely agree. I think the solution to promote Moss, while keeping Sanders, was the best possible solution. Better than the one that I was advocating - firing Sanders outright. In the immortal words of TT, "the proofs in the pudding." It's certainly looking good thus far.

Promote Moss to DC and keep Sanders? In what world would that work?

[RashanGary]

Promoted Moss to assistant HC and kept Sanders as DC.

[retailguy]

3-3, wow, we hit that, I'd have to consider some cartwheels.

Can I get it on film???? :P

I guess that depends on what I'd get if they go 2-4 or below?

[Rastak]

Promoted Moss to assistant HC and kept Sanders as DC.

Sanders still runs the defense in that arrangement.

[BallHawk]

3-3, wow, we hit that, I'd have to consider some cartwheels.

Can I get it on film???? :P

I guess that depends on what I'd get if they go 2-4 or below?

I'm anxiously awaiting Bretsky's response to this one.

[MJZiggy]

3-3, wow, we hit that, I'd have to consider some cartwheels.

Can I get it on film???? :P

I guess that depends on what I'd get if they go 2-4 or below?

I'll send you a couple Valium...

[vince]

Promoted Moss to assistant HC and kept Sanders as DC.

Sanders still runs the defense in that arrangement.

That's the traditional, generic arrangement. What evidence tells you that's the case in this instance?

[Rastak]

Promoted Moss to assistant HC and kept Sanders as DC.

Sanders still runs the defense in that arrangement.

That's the traditional, generic arrangement. What evidence tells you that's the case in this instance?

My evidence is that only an idiot would agree to such an arrangement. I'll give you a real world example. My boss says I am the boss over my department but the guy who reports to me has the final call. If shit goes wrong the other 31 teams (in a football sense) assume I am a dumbass thus killing my future employment. Would anyone with a minimum of half a brain agree to that? DC has full control over the defense unless the HC is a defensive guy, in which case I'm sure as common sense tells us, that the arrangement is understood FROM THE START.


Anyway, in the interest of an honest debate and discussion, Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?

[Guiness]

My evidence is that only an idiot would agree to such an arrangement. I'll give you a real world example. My boss says I am the boss over my department but the guy who reports to me has the final call. If shit goes wrong the other 31 teams (in a football sense) assume I am a dumbass thus killing my future employment. Would anyone with a minimum of half a brain agree to that? DC has full control over the defense unless the HC is a defensive guy, in which case I'm sure as common sense tells us, that the arrangement is understood FROM THE START.


Anyway, in the interest of an honest debate and discussion, Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?

Actually, something similar happened right here last year. Schot was sent to the booth, and by all accounts it was Lionel Washington making the calls on the field. Even though Schott still carried the title of secondary coach.

I dunno. Maybe that's not quite right, but that's how I understood it.

[Rastak]

My evidence is that only an idiot would agree to such an arrangement. I'll give you a real world example. My boss says I am the boss over my department but the guy who reports to me has the final call. If shit goes wrong the other 31 teams (in a football sense) assume I am a dumbass thus killing my future employment. Would anyone with a minimum of half a brain agree to that? DC has full control over the defense unless the HC is a defensive guy, in which case I'm sure as common sense tells us, that the arrangement is understood FROM THE START.


Anyway, in the interest of an honest debate and discussion, Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?

Actually, something similar happened right here last year. Schot was sent to the booth, and by all accounts it was Lionel Washington making the calls on the field. Even though Schott still carried the title of secondary coach.

I dunno. Maybe that's not quite right, but that's how I understood it.

So a position coach was making the defensive calls?

[retailguy]

3-3, wow, we hit that, I'd have to consider some cartwheels.

Can I get it on film???? :P

I guess that depends on what I'd get if they go 2-4 or below?

I'll send you a couple Valium...

doesn't exactly sound like a fair swap.

[vince]

Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?

In a scenario where a DC, who believes deeply in a team concept and learns through first-time experience that there are certain interpersonal communication skills required for success that he doesn't possess naturally - thus adding significant personal stress and hindering the team from achieving its objectives. That individual believes heavily in the team concept and learns a lot about himself through the experience as well as the pressures related to continuing failure.

Ras, trust me on this. Countless people who think they want to climb the corporate/organizational ladder step into leadership positions, only to find out that they are better suited to fulfilling a modified role from that which they were previously assigned. Those individuals who are team players often recommend a rearrangement of organizational responsibilities to better help the team achieve its goals.

Even if Sanders didn't "suggest" the modified roles, he could very well have been given a choice.

1. You're fired.
2. You stay in your current role, and we are going to create a position in which leadership and coordination roles will be "shared" by an "Assistant Head Coach/Defense" allowing you to save face and at the same time, focus your efforts toward team success that are much better geared toward your substantial strengths as a defensive tactician.

You (or anyone else) might choose to leave. A team guy like Bob Sanders might choose option 2.

Edit: also, after re-reading your example, there's one thing you cited that is inconsistent with this situation.... Moss doesn't report to Sanders as Assistant Head Coach/Defense. It was explicitly stated when the announcement was made that he reports directly to McCarthy. I'm not going to go back and find McCarthy's statement about it, unless you want me to. I can assure you that's the case here though.

[Rastak]

Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?

In a scenario where a DC, who believes deeply in a team concept and learns through first-time experience that there are certain interpersonal communication skills required for success that he doesn't possess naturally - thus adding significant personal stress and hindering the team from achieving its objectives. That individual believes heavily in the team concept and learns a lot about himself through the experience as well as the pressures related to continuing failure.

Ras, trust me on this. Countless people who think they want to climb the corporate/organizational ladder step into leadership positions, only to find out that they are better suited to fulfilling a modified role from that which they were previously assigned. Those individuals who are team players often recommend a rearrangement of organizational responsibilities to better help the team achieve its goals.

Even if Sanders didn't "suggest" the modified roles, he could very well have been given a choice.

1. You're fired.
2. You stay in your current role, and we are going to create a position in which leadership and coordination roles will be "shared" by an "Assistant Head Coach/Defense" allowing you to save face and at the same time, focus your efforts toward team success that are much better geared toward your substantial strengths as a defensive tactician.

You (or anyone else) might choose to leave. A team guy like Bob Sanders might choose option 2.

I guess we'll have to disagree. I'd quit and I would guess most people would at that level (my guess).....maybe not. I do understand your premise. But I have to admit I've never heard of an assistent basically assuming the title without having it.....do you have any examples?

[Guiness]

My evidence is that only an idiot would agree to such an arrangement. I'll give you a real world example. My boss says I am the boss over my department but the guy who reports to me has the final call. If shit goes wrong the other 31 teams (in a football sense) assume I am a dumbass thus killing my future employment. Would anyone with a minimum of half a brain agree to that? DC has full control over the defense unless the HC is a defensive guy, in which case I'm sure as common sense tells us, that the arrangement is understood FROM THE START.


Anyway, in the interest of an honest debate and discussion, Vince, what would you consider a viable scenario where the current DC cedes authority to someone else despite the title?

Actually, something similar happened right here last year. Schot was sent to the booth, and by all accounts it was Lionel Washington making the calls on the field. Even though Schott still carried the title of secondary coach.

I dunno. Maybe that's not quite right, but that's how I understood it.

So a position coach was making the defensive calls?

Not the overall defensive calls of course. Just managing the secondary. I got the idea that LW was running the secondary, while Schott was up in the booth. Maybe someone here knows a little more about what happened?

[vince]

Not that are verifiable on the web. I can tell you that I've personally experienced it a dozen times or so in my professional life, both directly (where people I've promoted found out the requirements of the job made them too stressed, and indirectly where people that reported to me have hired people who found out that they preferred a position of lower responsibility - for a number of personal reasons...