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Coaching Staff - My biggest "?" heading into 2007

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  • Coaching Staff - My biggest "?" heading into 2007

    No, not the runningbacks.
    No, not the tight ends.
    No, not the development of the O-line.
    No, not the health and/or maturity of the wide receivers.
    No, not the safeties.
    No, not depth at linebacker.
    No, not the overall youth of the roster.

    Its not even the abilities of Ted Thompson.

    My biggest overall concern entering this season, the biggest question I have is still the coaching staff, from top to bottom. This is why:

    Offensive staff

    - I will give them credit for developing protection schemes last year that enabled Favre to remain upright on most passing plays. However, I was never impressed with the overall passing game and the running game was woefully inadequate.
    - They were never able to come up with anything acceptable within the red zone.
    - I can't say that I remember a game plan that really seemed to stand out against any opponent's defense.
    - I never saw halftime adjustments that accomplished anything.
    - We have an inexperienced head coach, an inexperienced offensive coordinator and an inexperienced line coach (from the aspect of being the one in charge). It seems teaching the zone blocking philosophy has been more of a task than it should have been. Other teams with no-name linemen have run it successfully.
    - Just a lot of question marks, mostly because many have no past experiences similar to the responsibilities they have now or received a year ago. They proved nothing last year.

    Defensive staff
    - Who is in charge? Is it the defensive coordinator or the assistant head coach? Does the defensive coordinator have someone looking over his shoulder?
    - In spite of the strong finish, did anyone feel comfortable with the abilities of the coordinator as a coordinator? Is there any reason to feel better about it at the start of this season?
    - Defensive backfield coaches, need I say more? Schottenheimer has had a history of being unsuccessful in previous coaching stints. At least at the beginning of last year the backfield looked eerily similar to when Schottenheimer was in Green Bay before, yet except for Harris all of the players were different. We complained a lot about Mark Roman, who was considered at least a decent player before he came to Green Bay, and was thought to be a good pickup. He was absolutely awful under Schottenheimer, but not nearly as bad the following season when Schottenheimer was gone. He remains a starter at safety for San Francisco now that he left Green Bay. Marquand Manual was good enough to start in a Super Bowl and was looked at as a good pickup when signed by the Packers by most evaluators. Under Schottenheimer he looked very Roman-like. Collins, for the most part, seemed to regress in his second season under Schottenheimer. Harris and Woodson are strong enough veterans to excel in spite of Schottenheimer. The rest of the d-backs are clearly of ages and experience levels requiring strong coaching input. Will they get it?


    I think this coaching staff can prove itself. So far it has not. That is why they remain the biggest question mark in my mind. If the coaching staff proves itself, the problems we see at running back and tight end, and the inexperience in the O-line and at wide receiver can be mitigated substantially. If the coaching staff is inadequate, those same problems and others will be magnified.

  • #2
    Re: My biggest question mark heading into the season.

    Originally posted by Patler
    -However, I was never impressed with the overall passing game and the running game was woefully inadequate.
    Considering that they had one good, healthy WR with three first year starters on the interior OL with some decent TEs that had miserable years, I think the game planning was okay. The fact that Ahman averaged 4.0 yards/carry and Morency averaged 4.5 yards/carry shows that they had success in game planning.

    Originally posted by Patler
    -They were never able to come up with anything acceptable within the red zone.
    Agreed.

    Originally posted by Patler
    -I can't say that I remember a game plan that really seemed to stand out against any opponent's defense.
    - I never saw halftime adjustments that accomplished anything.
    I don't think these are entirely accurate. It's not like their offense was woeful. I'm sure they can improve, but to say they didn't game plan well or make halftime adjustments in any game that you saw is going a tad overboard.

    Originally posted by Patler
    - We have an inexperienced head coach, an inexperienced offensive coordinator and an inexperienced line coach (from the aspect of being the one in charge). It seems teaching the zone blocking philosophy has been more of a task than it should have been. Other teams with no-name linemen have run it successfully.
    Agree on the inexperience comment--except McCarthy is the man running the offense and he's had extensive experience doing so. Not sure how long it took other teams to adjust to the zone blocking scheme. Until they had some guys that fit the system and got experience, I would imagine they struggled.

    Originally posted by Patler
    - Who is in charge? Is it the defensive coordinator or the assistant head coach? Does the defensive coordinator have someone looking over his shoulder?
    From all accounts, Sanders is still running the defense. Not sure it matters if he has "somebody looking over his shoulder". If that somebody is good, that could be a good thing.

    Originally posted by Patler
    - In spite of the strong finish, did anyone feel comfortable with the abilities of the coordinator as a coordinator? Is there any reason to feel better about it at the start of this season?
    Agreed.

    Originally posted by Patler
    - Defensive backfield coaches, need I say more?
    No, you don't.
    "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

    Comment


    • #3
      My biggest question mark is how many times will I need to go to the Park Tavern with Harvey and superfan?
      All hail the Ruler of the Meadow!

      Comment


      • #4
        get a room, Patler & HarveyWallbanger

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
          get a room, Patler & HarveyWallbanger
          Why you have your hidden cams setup?
          Originally posted by 3irty1
          This is museum quality stupidity.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Zool
            Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
            get a room, Patler & HarveyWallbanger
            Why you have your hidden cams setup?

            Uhhh, they'd probably just sit on the bed, tap their feet on the floor to signal their readiness to get started, then bring out their Pro Football Stat books for an all night session of exchanging fun facts.

            Not much to see.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
              Originally posted by Zool
              Originally posted by Harlan Huckleby
              get a room, Patler & HarveyWallbanger
              Why you have your hidden cams setup?

              Uhhh, they'd probably just sit on the bed, tap their feet on the floor to signal their readiness to get started, then bring out their Pro Football Stat books for an all night session of exchanging fun facts.

              Not much to see.
              Would the cops bust that up?
              Originally posted by 3irty1
              This is museum quality stupidity.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My biggest question mark heading into the season.

                Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
                Originally posted by Patler
                -I can't say that I remember a game plan that really seemed to stand out against any opponent's defense.
                - I never saw halftime adjustments that accomplished anything.
                I don't think these are entirely accurate. It's not like their offense was woeful. I'm sure they can improve, but to say they didn't game plan well or make halftime adjustments in any game that you saw is going a tad overboard.
                I don't think it is overboard at all, especially since I complained about both through out the season last year. Too often against quality opponents they looked totally inept on offense right from the start, and never changes. The Packers outscored opponents in the 2nd half only 6 times last year:

                Lions 14-10
                Miami 28-14
                Cardinals 10-7
                Vikings 6-3
                Jets 10-7
                Lions 7-6.

                I'll give you Miami, but I sure don't see anything else that looks like 2nd half adjustments.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: My biggest question mark heading into the season.

                  Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
                  Originally posted by Patler
                  - Who is in charge? Is it the defensive coordinator or the assistant head coach? Does the defensive coordinator have someone looking over his shoulder?
                  From all accounts, Sanders is still running the defense. Not sure it matters if he has "somebody looking over his shoulder". If that somebody is good, that could be a good thing.
                  Have you ever worked in, or seen a department in which the department head has a subordinate who has direct access to the ultimate boss? Generally it is not a real good thing, UNLESS the department head is strong, accomplished and well accepted individual.

                  With all the questions raised last year about Sanders abilities as a coordinator, this arrangement becomes a big question mark in my mind. I'm not saying it is necessarily bad, but it is one of the reasons that the overall coaching staff is a big question mark in my mind. Did McCarthy feel like he needed someone watching over Sanders, more closely than he could without being obvious about it?

                  Again, questions in my mind.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree with a lot of what you are concerned with as far as the coaches. I don't know what to think about Schottenheimer. If he's so horrible, and doesn't have good schematics for the players to follow, it would seem that Sanders would know that, and/or even MM himself. So, then, why would they have kept him on? His job may have been saved due to the four-game winning streak, where our defense looked top five (against very mediocre to bad offenses).

                    What I do like ever since I have seen MM in the Green and Gold, is that he seems like a guy that has no problem putting players in place ( including Favre). Remember how we used to get all over Shermy for letting Favre pull some shitty interception out of his ass, and MS would just ignore him and let him go sit on the bench? MM has since day one made Favre and the rest of the team accountable for EVERY bad play, and wants an answer from them as to why they did what they did. Consequence. So, if he treats his players that way, I'm sure his coaches are getting their fair share of lectures and accountability. So, if MM OR Sanders has ANY knowledge of defensive schemes, etc., I would think that Schotty would be outta here by now.
                    One thing that we must remember, the defense last year, got the short end of the stick many, many games. It's not like they went out there and got ran over from play one every game. When you're offense can't sustain a drive after you've stopped the other team 2 and 3 times in a row, eventually the defense will lose the war. We put them out there way too much last year because of our inept offense. However, it just so happened that as the running game and offensive line started getting better, and we started sustaining drives, our defensive numbers suddenly looked good. It all goes hand in hand, and last year, we got burned on a lot of third downs, but usually after having stopped the opposition a couple of times, and the offense failing us over and over again.
                    The key to success this year WILL be our running game, and sustaining drives to keep the defense OFF THE FIELD. That will help their numbers.
                    Look at the Bears. Everybody said that when Harris and Brown went down, their rankings started plummeting, but remember, those first games where their defense was ranked real high, they also had their offense going, Grossman looked like player of the year. As their offense started sputtering, suddenly their defense seemed human. Especially their run defense. I know losing a guy like Harris is part of it, but they were on the field a lot more in the second part of the season, because of the offense.

                    Keep the ball and score, and you don't have to worry about our DB's or their coaches, they'll be sitting on the bench watching along with us.
                    "...one thing about me during the course of a game, I get emotional and say things my grandmother lets me know about later. But nobody wants to win on that field anymore than I do, no one." Brett Favre

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Patler
                      Schottenheimer has had a history of being unsuccessful in previous coaching stints. At least at the beginning of last year the backfield looked eerily similar to when Schottenheimer was in Green Bay before, yet except for Harris all of the players were different.
                      Man why you gotta say scary things like that. You make me get a sick feeling and have visions of opposing offenses scoring on 50+ yard plays.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: My biggest question mark heading into the season.

                        Originally posted by Patler
                        I don't think it is overboard at all, especially since I complained about both through out the season last year. Too often against quality opponents they looked totally inept on offense right from the start, and never changes. The Packers outscored opponents in the 2nd half only 6 times last year:

                        Lions 14-10
                        Miami 28-14
                        Cardinals 10-7
                        Vikings 6-3
                        Jets 10-7
                        Lions 7-6.

                        I'll give you Miami, but I sure don't see anything else that looks like 2nd half adjustments.
                        Using the stats to your advantage. This isn't conclusive evidence to me that the coaches didn't make any adjustments. Maybe defensively, but I already agreed with you there. However, there were games where they couldn't run the ball in the first half and they adjusted in the second half. There were games where they tried some things in the first half in the passing game. It wasn't working, and they went to something else. We'll see. Were they great at it? Probably not. They didn't have great personnel, they ran a new running scheme, young players, had to max protect a lot. They didn't have a lot of options. But, it's not like they didn't make any adjustments in any game.
                        "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MadtownPacker
                          Man why you gotta say scary things like that. You make me get a sick feeling and have visions of opposing offenses scoring on 50+ yard plays.
                          You mean like in 2004 and 2006?

                          49, 26, 35, 37, 42, 45, 30, 43, 40, 52, 75 - yardage on some of the TD passes thrown against Green Bay in 2006.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Patler
                            Originally posted by MadtownPacker
                            Man why you gotta say scary things like that. You make me get a sick feeling and have visions of opposing offenses scoring on 50+ yard plays.
                            You mean like in 2004 and 2006?

                            49, 26, 35, 37, 42, 45, 30, 43, 40, 52, 75 - yardage on some of the TD passes thrown against Green Bay in 2006.
                            I had successfully blocked that trauma from my memory. Thanks for reminding me.
                            "Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg Jennings

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: My biggest question mark heading into the season.

                              Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
                              Originally posted by Patler
                              I don't think it is overboard at all, especially since I complained about both through out the season last year. Too often against quality opponents they looked totally inept on offense right from the start, and never changes. The Packers outscored opponents in the 2nd half only 6 times last year:

                              Lions 14-10
                              Miami 28-14
                              Cardinals 10-7
                              Vikings 6-3
                              Jets 10-7
                              Lions 7-6.

                              I'll give you Miami, but I sure don't see anything else that looks like 2nd half adjustments.
                              Using the stats to your advantage. This isn't conclusive evidence to me that the coaches didn't make any adjustments. Maybe defensively, but I already agreed with you there. However, there were games where they couldn't run the ball in the first half and they adjusted in the second half. There were games where they tried some things in the first half in the passing game. It wasn't working, and they went to something else. We'll see. Were they great at it? Probably not. They didn't have great personnel, they ran a new running scheme, young players, had to max protect a lot. They didn't have a lot of options. But, it's not like they didn't make any adjustments in any game.
                              I didn't say they didn't make adjustments, I said they didn't make adjustments that accomplished anything. Ultimately, the name of the game on offense is to score. I did not see the Packers make half time changes that accomplished that in 2006. I complained about it last year, and it will remain a question mark for me until they show otherwise.

                              Comment

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