It’s time to fish or cut bait…

[Noodle]

Our line does practice cut blocking, a lot, according to Philbin. But I agree they need to do it against real, angry, men, not just dummies.

In the preseason, when we faced real, angry, men, the 1s didn't run much -- we were getting our QB and receivers on the same page, which makes sense. But the lack of preparation, I think, shows.

Philly didn't blitz all that much after the first quarter, so I'm not sure screens and flairs would have been all that effective. Instead, you have to keep trying to run the ball, wear those big DLs down, and then dominate in the fourth quarter. But to do that, the QB is going to have to convert some early 3rd and 5 or 6s, and he's going to have to be very accurate. We didn't convert 3rd downs against the Iggles, so we never got a chance to get it rolling.

It's way too early to just give up. But we are going to have to commit more to the run and not get panicked after a few 3 and outs. Our D will keep us in the game.

[mmmdk]

What I got from the article, plus I've stessed this numerous times before, Packers/McCarthy just doesn't run the ball. One could, very much so, argue that ZBS is then mute. Both ZBS teams, Denver & Atlanta, run more than they pass (stats don't lie). McCarthy has never as OC committed to running, apart from his year in SF where they started, what?, 4 QBs!?. Always heavy passing game with McCarthy; then why not pass protect your quaterback? It's a valid question. There was no ZBS in NO or SF.

With all this pondering; I do believe the Packers O will have success versus the Giants. Actually, I kinda expect it - with Favre carving up the Giants in a classic Favre showing ala his near flawless game in Detroit last season. That's if the OL can pass protect...

[CaliforniaCheez]

McGinn is negative until he finds something else to be negative about.

I remember some of his pre-draft and post draft comments.

McGinn is negative even if the Packers do what "expert" McGinn recommends.


I'm not so sure that laying down in front of D linemen while attempting block then below the knees is a good idea.

[the_idle_threat]

Colledge, Wells, Spitz - 305, 295, 300
Wahle, Flanagan, Rivera - 304, 297, 307.

What's the big deal?

It's NOT their size, it's how they are playing and/or what they are being asked to do.

Wahle and Rivera were pretty much useless until their third years, and were not good when they first became starters.

This is a great point.

If bigger linemen = success, then why did guys like Mike Williams (in Buffalo), Leonard Davis, and Wisconsin's own Aaron Gibson flame out?

It's about technique and execution. It will come around as they get repetitions playing together against live bullets.

This is why I'm not a fan of the idea floating around that they should rotate Spitz and Orange Junius throughout the year. They need a consistent starting five on the field.

[run pMc]

In the case off Colledge vs. Kosier or Tauscher vs. Colombo,

I'd think the shorter person would actually be harder for a DL to shove around since since they have a lower center of gravity (lower pad level?) and weigh the same. A taller player might be able to get around that by having longer arms, though.

I think experience, good technique, and consistently executing well have more to do with it than height/weight. All these guys are big.

[MJZiggy]

In the case off Colledge vs. Kosier or Tauscher vs. Colombo,

I'd think the shorter person would actually be harder for a DL to shove around since since they have a lower center of gravity (lower pad level?) and weigh the same. A taller player might be able to get around that by having longer arms, though.

I think experience, good technique, and consistently executing well have more to do with it than height/weight. All these guys are big.

So does that mean we need a gorilla or a Neanderthal in there?

[Maxie the Taxi]

this is kind of a cheap-shot by McGinn.

I can guarantee that this wasn’t a cheap shot by McGinn because McGinn didn’t write the “article.” I wrote the post. I was trying to credit McGinn with saying that the Packers’ line was being “pushed around” Sunday. Sorry if my language mislead.

It's NOT their size, it's how they are playing and/or what they are being asked to do.

Point well-taken. I’m no football expert. Just a fan. If 3-4” in height and 10-20 lbs in weight per man is no “big deal” then so be it. But the truth remains that our OL is being asked to do what our OL’s in year’s past have not been asked to do, i.e., zone and cut block. So, in this sense, it’s not reasonable to compare this offensive line to our OL in years past.

The basic points of the post remain…Why did McCarthy choose to build his offense (OL and running backs) around a ZBS and then emphasize the pass (and pass protection) in his play calling?

No one can deny that several times in post game press conferences McCarthy has criticized the “play caller” for not committing to the rush. Since he’s the play caller, only he can answer that criticism, and so far his answers have been vague at best.

McGinn is negative until he finds something else to be negative about.

As I said, I wrote the post, so I KNOW it’s not negative. I’m simply a confused fan asking a question or two. I’d love to see the running game gel sooner rather than later. That’s my other major point.

McCarthy has never as OC committed to running, apart from his year in SF where they started, what?, 4 QBs!?. Always heavy passing game with McCarthy;

I didn’t know this about McCarthy, which makes me even more confused.

So he picks a line that has 340 lb and 366 lb starters and uses that to prove a point?

The reason I chose Dallas to compare to is that Dallas IMO is one of the best teams in the NFC and they don’t use ZBS.

Another major reason I chose Dallas is that down here in Florida there are a lot of Dallas fans and they’re big mouth braggarts. One is my partner at work.

Green Bay plays at Dallas November 29 and I want to make sure the Packer OL is competitive and our running game solid by then. If the Packer offense plays Nov. 29 in Dallas as they did last Sunday in Philadelphia, I’m going to be shredded by these loud mouths. I'll be too embarrassed to show up for work. Not to mention all the bets I’ll lose.

“Negative” against the Green Bay Packers??? Maybe McGinn, but sure as hell not me!!! I’m a proud Packer fan in enemy territory. Trying to survive down here with a-holes who claim Brett Favre isn’t good enough to shine Tony Romo’s shoes is exhausting. These morons (even the local guys on the radio) think the Big Ten is a pee wee league and that the Wisconsin Badgers are… Well, you get the point.

Fix the OL by Nov. 29, McCarthy. Start running the damn ball against the Giants.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Packers biggest problem is that Brett Favre is too short.

Peyton Manning 6'5"
Brett Favre 6'2"

[Maxie the Taxi]

How tall is Tony Romo?

[Harlan Huckleby]

If you were going to pick a line to compare with, it probably ought to be Denver, since they made the ZBS famous in NFL.

(I don't even know if they still are a zone blocking team. Probably.)

I always thought that Denver was noted for having a small, athletic offensive line. But maybe I'm confusing their defensive line.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Denver's OL:

LT Matt Lepsis - 6'4" 290
LG Ben Hamilton - 6'4" 290
C Tom Nalen - 6'3" 285
RG Montrae Holland - 6'2" 322
RT Erik Pears - 6'8" 305

[Merlin]

The Packers biggest problem is that Brett Favre is too short.

Peyton Manning 6'5"
Brett Favre 6'2"

LOL....

Seriously, the issue is the ZBS right now. We can't afford to go years trying to find the right players. Denver is successful because they have had the same coach and the same scheme for years. They normally haven't had replace 60% of their offensive line in the off season. Patience is fine but this is year two and we aren't running worth a shit.

[Harlan Huckleby]

So does that mean we need a gorilla or a Neanderthal in there?

As discovered in the "ladies" thread, this is Ziggy's kind of man - the strong, hairy, silent type.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Denver's OL:

LT Matt Lepsis - 6'4" 290
LG Ben Hamilton - 6'4" 290
C Tom Nalen - 6'3" 285
RG Montrae Holland - 6'2" 322
RT Erik Pears - 6'8" 305

see - munchkins!

[Maxie the Taxi]

always thought that Denver was noted for having a small, athletic offensive line. But maybe I'm confusing their defensive line.

You're right. Denver is most well-known ZBS team. I think their line is smaller than the norm and more athletic. But Denver is still a bad comparison for the Packers because they actually choose to run the ball.

Time by itself won't cause the Pack's OL to gel. For the OL to gel in the ZBS you have to actually run the ball in real games.