"HARRELL, WAITING AND WATCHING""

[HarveyWallbangers]

Small point of order.

18 Cincinnati Leon Hall CB - Backup

Good catch. NFL.com has him playing 3 and starting 1 game. He must have replaced Jonathan Joseph after the game that Cleveland scored 51 points on them. I'm sure he's playing a lot as a nickelback regardless, but it appears he isn't playing well.

[Harlan Huckleby]

My point is even simpler: grading Harrell at this time is nitwittian.

Obviously he doesn't get a final grade now. For me judgement day arrives next year, same will wait longer to decide if it was a good pick. But it's fair to have an opinion now, we've seen enough to declare whether we like what we see.

Is it premature to offer the opinion that James Jones was a good draft pick? What's fair for the good players is fair for the disappoitments.

And one more point: I don't consider Harrell's injury a good excuse for his 11th position on the DL depth chart. A leg injury, sure. But a repaired bicep tear that has evidently healed? He gets a couple extra weeks to shake off the rust.

[Harlan Huckleby]

You draft someone based on their potential to produce over a career...not the first year.

Right. But that doesn't mean we have to ignore what happens in the first year.

[PackerBlues]

nitwittian? Too Funny.

First time I bothered to check out this post. I honestly do not care that JH is not playing. The Packers do not need him right now, and it just means that by the time that we do see him, he should be well rested and healthy. Perhaps the Packers want to save him for the tail end of the season when most O-linemen will be battered and bruised.........Unleash the animal.....Justin Harrell!!!! Just a thought, lol



If Thompson would have drafted a TE or a RB with the first pick, would we be any better off than we are now? I am not to worried about Harrell, or his pick status right now, M3 has started to earn my respect, and I guess I am just a little more patient with the teams decision making, especially at 3-0. Whatever the reasoning behind keeping Harrell on the bench, I am willing to wait........I do however still have high expectations of him though......he should be healthy, and as a first round pick, I would expect him to be impressive.

[esoxx]

If Harrell had been a gangbuster this past summer, and currently led the team in tackles, you wouldn't hear the nitwits say, "Ya, he's doing well. But we need to wait two years to know whether TT made a good pick."

One can ALWAYS say "time will tell." But it's lame, and against the spirit in which internet forums were founded. That would be the spirit of mouthing off. Stand and deliver!

I agree. I wouldn't go so far as to say nitwits but to cloak and preface every take on a player...that can be done every which way.

The rally cry when BJ Sander was drafted was typically, well if he turns out to be a pro bowler, or if this or that, it was a good pick. I hated the pick based on his leg strength, among other things. BTW, if grandma had balls she'd be grandpa, or is too early to judge that too.

I have been wrong many times on players, right too. A position can be taken on Harrell. He's a disappointment or he would be on the field in some capacity or least dressing on game days.

TT drafted a player who missed most of his senior year due to a major injury at a position that was the deepest on the team. He was expecting more than seeing Harrell in sweatshirt and jeans on game day. I'm not sure how that helps his development.

[Bretsky]

If Harrell had been a gangbuster this past summer, and currently led the team in tackles, you wouldn't hear the nitwits say, "Ya, he's doing well. But we need to wait two years to know whether TT made a good pick."

One can ALWAYS say "time will tell." But it's lame, and against the spirit in which internet forums were founded. That would be the spirit of mouthing off. Stand and deliver!

I agree. I wouldn't go so far as to say nitwits but to cloak and preface every take on a player...that can be done every which way.

The rally cry when BJ Sander was drafted was typically, well if he turns out to be a pro bowler, or if this or that, it was a good pick. I hated the pick based on his leg strength, among other things. BTW, if grandma had balls she'd be grandpa, or is too early to judge that too.

I have been wrong many times on players, right too. A position can be taken on Harrell. He's a disappointment or he would be on the field in some capacity or least dressing on game days.

TT drafted a player who missed most of his senior year due to a major injury at a position that was the deepest on the team. He was expecting more than seeing Harrell in sweatshirt and jeans on game day. I'm not sure how that helps his development.

[KYPack]

Small point of order.

18 Cincinnati Leon Hall CB - Backup

Good catch. NFL.com has him playing 3 and starting 1 game. He must have replaced Jonathan Joseph after the game that Cleveland scored 51 points on them. I'm sure he's playing a lot as a nickelback regardless, but it appears he isn't playing well.

He's a rook. And rookie corners get you beat. The Pack has actually had some of the best rookie corners I've ever seen.

Newsome
McKenzie
Buchanon
And the best one, Adderley.

Hall is lost, no confidence, and not a bunch of upside til he gets a clue. He would have been better off in GB, learning at the feet of one of the best vet tandems in the league, Harris and Woodson. They could show the kid every trick in the book.

[oregonpackfan]

An article from the NFL portion of Comcost's Home page gives this quote:

"Defensive tackle Justin Harrell was added to the injury report as questionable with a knee he sprained in practice Wednesday. He aggravated the injury Thursday and didn't practice Friday."

It appears Sunday's game will be game 4 where Harrell will be inactive.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't care if he's not active. At all. The guys in there are doing very well. I just hope that if one of those big boys go down, Harrell will be ready when his name is called.

[Bretsky]

I don't care if he's not active. At all. The guys in there are doing very well. I just hope that if one of those big boys go down, Harrell will be ready when his name is called.

I agree in principal to what you are saying; I just want wins and good ball.

But Colin Cole is not really that good; a decent last guy in the rotation. It's disappointing Harrell cannot pass by Cole.

Hopefully long term, we do sign Williams and Harrell some day becomes part of a young dominant DL.

Time will tell.

[4and12to12and4]

You cannot disagree that drafting almost any other player from #16 on would have given the Packers someone who would have shown more immedately.

I disagree. Few of the players drafted after Harrell are really making any meaningful contribution. Most of the ones that are are actually doing so to their team's DETRIMENT...the team would likely be better with a capable veteran, but is choosing to take the growing pains now to get a quicker payoff in the future or are forced to because of injury.

Our 4 game winning streak to close last season took away a chance to land someone who could make an immediate impact. It is extremely rare to land someone outside of the first 10-15 picks that is a major contributor from week one.

You draft someone based on their potential to produce over a career...not the first year. Most players take 2-4 years to come into their own and make any meaningful contributions...and the vast evidence pertaining to the position we are discussing (DT) shows that almost all rookies take longer than usual to develop properly. The difference in strength and speed, especially what is needed from their own body, is even larger in the trenches than anywhere else on the field for a college player to adjust to.

Once Harrell gets in there, and our rotation becomes even more evolved, our defensive line is going to be rock solid. We will have fresh bodies coming in the fourth quarter blowing guys off the line. I like the pick, right now, because of the chemistry and pressure our line is getting, I just think that MM is letting Harrell fully heal and learn via the sideline and meetings, and he will see action mid season. Then, we will see what he have in a one hundred percent healthy d lineman. Why rush the guy in when that muscle is still probably about 85 per cent right now, and risk further injury, when our line and defense is clicking and pressuring with the rotation we now have? Harrell will be a great addition come midseason, giving guys rest, and allowing us to see him full strength. Until then, patience. MM knows what he's doing.

[Harlan Huckleby]

MM is letting Harrell fully heal and learn via the sideline and meetings, and he will see action mid season. Then, we will see what he have in a one hundred percent healthy d lineman. Why rush the guy in when that muscle is still probably about 85 per cent right now

A bicep tear that was mended one year ago has nothing to do with Harrell's status.

Gilbert Brown played a whole season with a bicep tear, had surgery afterwards. No issues the following season.

I don't believe his arm is 85% strength wise, he's had ample time to rehab to 100%. But even if one arm were a little weaker, that's not a big deal. Driver went into training camp with greatly reduced strength in one shoulder, how's he doing?

I think its legitimate to say that Harrell went into training camp a little rustier than the other rookies back in July. But come-on, the frost is on the pumpkin. Lame excuse.

[RashanGary]

Yup, Harrell is a rookie who is playing in maybe the deepest DT rotation in football. It says more about the guys in front of him that it does about him. It's really too early to say he won't be a really good or even great NFL player.

I somewhat understand the logic that we could be helped more now by bringing in a guy who is better *right now* than what we have. Maybe a TE or a CB. Ted believed that Harrell would be the best player (over the course of his career) than anyone who was available at that time (or so he says). For him to draft a player that would help more now would also hurt later as Harrell develops into the player that Thompson thinks he is.

The logic of many Harrell supporters is that if JH develops into a probowl tackle at some point in his career (probably years 2-6 for DT's), it will have been a really good pick even if it didn't help much the first year.

Look at Johnny Jolly. He didn't do anything in his first year and he's our starting DT this year. It happens at that position. The explosive guys who have that first step might come in and get sacks right away. Young guys are explosive guys. Guys like Harrell depend on strength. Strength comes with man power. Let's give him a little time before we raise the bust flag or the "he sucks" flag.

[Carolina_Packer]

I don't think anyone here is saying that he's already a bust. I believe that everyone on this board is too reasonable and pro football savvy to say something like that. I think many are just surprised at his slow development compared to other rookie first rounders (see list from a previous thread that I put together from nfl.com). Sure, many of those other may not be contributing to wins or their teams success, but they are active for games, if you want to use that as a measuring stick for initial success.

All I'm saying throughout this entire thread is (hypothetically for the sake of argument, and what else do we have?), if TT had the crystal ball to look ahead and see how the D-line was going to develop this past off-season and training camp and the first three weeks of the season, and how JH has not been able to find his place in the rotation, would he still have picked him at #16 this year. Was he that comfortable in JH making little or no impact this year, but hoping/expecting him to be a big contributor in years to come?

If he had known how things were going to go for the DL and for JH so far, would he have chosen someone else? It would be interesting to see his big board now.

[Bretsky]

Yup, Harrell is a rookie who is playing in maybe the deepest DT rotation in football. It says more about the guys in front of him that it does about him


I just look at Colin Cole and an disappointed. Earlier in the year one of the JS guys said the unrestricted free agent would likely see gameday before Harrell.

He's not able to accurately make that statement; but it was shocking to even read it.

We're 3-0 so it's not a biggie as homerism had had an effect on me; it would feel worse if we were 1-2.

But when I step back I'm not sure the record should matter in our views on this.