"HARRELL, WAITING AND WATCHING""

[Carolina_Packer]

Look at Johnny Jolly. He didn't do anything in his first year and he's our starting DT this year. It happens at that position. The explosive guys who have that first step might come in and get sacks right away. Young guys are explosive guys. Guys like Harrell depend on strength. Strength comes with man power. Let's give him a little time before we raise the bust flag or the "he sucks" flag.

True, but what round was Jolly? 6th? Is it out of line to expect that your 1st rounder, regardless of position is going to be active and contributing? Note, I did not say helping to win ball games, or being the player he will be in years to come, but showing enough off the bat to show why he was so highly regarded to be picked in the first round. I think that is what makes people concerned and perhaps thinking if we were so deep at that position, did that just develop overnight and we didn't know how good we were back in the April draft, or would JH have been chosen no matter what we eventually came to find out about our D-line?

[vince]

(Most) Everyone in this thread is right about that which they are arguing. This thread keeps going in circles around two different arguments about the same person.

[Bretsky]

(Most) Everyone in this thread is right about that which they are arguing. This thread keeps going in circles around two different arguments about the same person.

It's good to bring out the fire here and there with these debates; all this Homer 3-0 stuff makes things too easy around here.

[Tarlam!]

to be honest, the best move at the time, and I stated it than was to pull the trigger with the Browns.

Hindsight is 20/20, but this was a no brainer for me. TT is my hero, but I don't always agree with my heroes. I would have traded with Cleveland. I bet Harrell would still have been available when we picked.

I am on Bulldogs side here.

I still am in TT's camp regardless of how Harrell turns out. I like Harrel's humility. I still hope we re-sign Williams and remain 11-deep at DT.

[woodbuck27]

Good ol' NFL.com. Here is the 1st round draft results and a list of those players who are active and contributing. I went to each team's depth chart and dragged the mouse cursor over the player's name to show number of games and stats. For O-lineman, it just shows games and games started.

According to this, the only teams not getting anything from their first rounders right now are Oakland, for contract hold-out reasons obviously, Justin Harrell, who is listed 3rd on the depth chart, Brady Quinn, who is a backup QB to Derrick Anderson, and Robert Meachem who has been not been active for a game this year. What's up with those Vols? Late bloomers, I guess.

This is not to say JH won't develop. I sure hope he does, since he's under contract. It simply points out the obvious that he has not made an impact of any kind, and that's concerning. Can he rebound? Sure. Will he make his mark? Should we have seen signs of why he was drafted in the first round? I think so. Have we? Again, this is not to say he won't be something special, just that he has limped from the gate in his career compared to the other first rounders. Is it all related to his injury last year? I don't know, but something is holding back his ability to be an immedate contributor, and you see strong evidence that most of this year's crop have found a way to make an immediate contribution or impact for their respective team. You discount Russell and Quinn because they haven't had the chance to start/play. You cannot disagree that drafting almost any other player from #16 on would have given the Packers someone who would have shown more immedately. That's all I'm saying. I agree with those who say we didn't need him in order to be 3-0, and who knows how many of these guys have had a big impact on their respective teams, but most, if not all have been active and contributing. Hopefully JH can get it in gear.

# Team Player Pos Active or Contributing?
1 Oakland JaMarcus Russell QB Active, late signee
2 Detroit Calvin Johnson WR Active and Contributing
3 Cleveland Joe Thomas OT Active and Contributing
4 Tampa Bay Gaines Adams DE Active and Contributing
5 Arizona Levi Brown OT Active and Contributing
6 Washington LaRon Landry FS Active and Contributing
7 Minnesota Adrian Peterson RB Active and Contributing
8 Atlanta Jamaal Anderson DE Active and Contributing
9 Miami Ted Ginn Jr. WR Active and Contributing
10 Houston Amobi Okoye DT Active and Contributing
11 San Francisco Patrick Willis ILB Active and Contributing
12 Buffalo Marshawn Lynch RB Active and Contributing
13 St. Louis Adam Carriker DE Active and Contributing
14 N.Y. Jets Darrelle Revis CB Active and Contributing, late signee
15 Pittsburgh Lawrence Timmons OLB Active and Contributing
16 Green Bay Justin Harrell DT Not Active
17 Denver Jarvis Moss DE Active and Contributing
18 Cincinnati Leon Hall CB Active and Contributing
19 Tennessee Michael Griffin FS Active and Contributing
20 N.Y. Giants Aaron Ross CB Active and Contributing
21 Jacksonville Reggie Nelson FS Active and Contributing
22 Cleveland Brady Quinn QB Active, has not played
23 Kansas City Dwayne Bowe WR Active and Contributing
24 New England Brandon Meriweather FS Active and Contributing
25 Carolina Jon Beason OLB Active and Contributing
26 Dallas Anthony Spencer DE Active and Contributing
27 New Orleans Robert Meachem WR Not Active
28 San Francisco Joe Staley OT Active and Contributing
29 Baltimore Ben Grubbs G Active, has not played or started
30 San Diego Craig Davis WR Active and Contributing
31 Chicago Greg Olsen TE Injured weeks 1,2 Active/Contributing Wk3
32 Indianapolis Anthony Gonzalez WR Active and Contributing

Outstanding effort put in that post.

Thank You, Carolina_Packer.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jolly was injured last year, and has turned into a real find this year. Hopefully, Harrell sees the same type of progress. Interesting take. I hadn't thought of it. Maybe he's the next Donnell Washington, but I won't write him off. His character was supposed to be a big-time strength coming into the league.

Q: Tim Chase of Beaver Dam - Bob, Great job as always. I am glad some of us saw the potential of the Packers this year. My question is about Justin Harrell though. Do you believe the Packers are trying to get him healthy, in better shape and shorten the season for him? Often it seems rookies hit the wall. He doesn't have a 16 game schedule any more and will be much more productive and healthy when a few of the other line-man get nicked up. And as long as we are on rookies when is the last time a rookie kicker has looked as good as Crosby has?

A: Bob McGinn - TC: No ulterior motives on Harrell. He just isn't good enough to be on the field. Daniel Muir is at least as deserving as Harrell, based on six weeks this summer. Barring injury, Harrell probably will be inactive every week. His job is to get better the best way he can, watch and learn from pros like Pickett and Williams and the rest, and make a move like Jolly did during the '07 OS and summer. ... Crosby has been very good. Not sure of history of rookie kickers.

[KYPack]

Hey kids

Can I pull an old Forum trick and reverse myself in the same thread?

This "sprained knee" bit that kept him out of the Viking game is giving me the willies.

Multiple injuries that keep ya off the field is very "David Martinesque".

Tough guys find a way to get on the field. Busts sit in a tub.

Is it happening, er ain't it?

[esoxx]

Sprained knee or no sprained knee he wasn't seeing the field anyhow, or dressing for that matter.

[TheRaven]

I love how people are condemning this guy 3 games (now 4, but most of it came before our last game) into his first season. People are so quick to judge and cement an opinion based off nothing.

It doesn't really matter at this point whom we could have picked. We have Harrell. Let's see how the guy turns out in a few years. I am of the opinion that you win games with your lines on both sides of the ball, so I have no issues with adding some talented depth to the line and seeing what happens. If he busts, that happens too. As long as TT can keep producing solid classes overall, I don't mind.

TT has built a nice, young team here. He has made a lot of moves to put us in a position to contend. We still have strives to make, but we are so much better off than we were three years ago. And if you want to question that..then just look at this: 4-0.

[MadtownPacker]

After watching peterson this last sunday I dont think Harrell was such a bad idea.

[Carolina_Packer]

I love how people are condemning this guy 3 games (now 4, but most of it came before our last game) into his first season. People are so quick to judge and cement an opinion based off nothing.

It doesn't really matter at this point whom we could have picked. We have Harrell. Let's see how the guy turns out in a few years. I am of the opinion that you win games with your lines on both sides of the ball, so I have no issues with adding some talented depth to the line and seeing what happens. If he busts, that happens too. As long as TT can keep producing solid classes overall, I don't mind.

TT has built a nice, young team here. He has made a lot of moves to put us in a position to contend. We still have strives to make, but we are so much better off than we were three years ago. And if you want to question that..then just look at this: 4-0.

I don't know if anyone is comdemning Harrell, or the Harrell pick. It is at least notable that OUR first rounder, like Meachem for NO has not sniffed the field, and that our guy can't crack the DL rotation. It is curious at least. I do think it raises some concern if the first rounder, which most equate with high pay, high promise has limped from the gate, while other first rounders have gotten off to good starts in their career.

It's possible the team is just holding him back, almost like a red-shirt year in college, since they don't need him in the rotation. I understand that not all draft picks work out, and that he was a guy for the future, but I don't think people can so quickly dismissive of the point...if he was the best player available on our board when we picked him (and I'll take TT at his word on that one) then why haven't we yet seen strong indications of the kind of player he can be? Why is he mired on the depth chart? It's one thing if they are deliberately holding him out, it's another thing (and concern) if his talent wasn't good enough to make some kind of impact and show why he was worthy of being a number 1. That's not condemning him for his career, that's just expressing concern, and I think rightfully so. We'll never know if it was something lacking on Harrell's part to break into the rotation or if it was the team deliberately holding him out to save him for the future because they don't really talk about such things publicly. The other point that is not lost is, it sure would be nice in the parity, win-now NFL to have a draft pick, especially a first rounder who could provide more of an immediate impact. I understand that's not Harrell, and if you gave TT truth serum, he may admit that he didn't expect much from Harrell in year 1. With more questions than answers on offense, it sure would have been nice to have some more offensive help, but it is what it is, and we move on from here and are just glad to be 4-0 despite nothing to date from JH.

[TheRaven]

I don't know if anyone is comdemning Harrell, or the Harrell pick.

I don't disagree with a lot you say, but read this thread again. People have been all over him and TT for this. And not just from a 'Hmm..thats curious' type of approach either.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Gilbert Brown played a whole season with a bicep tear, had surgery afterwards. No issues the following season.

That gives me an idea. Why don't the Packers send Harrell to the nearest Old Country Buffet and tell him not to leave until he's put on another 50 or 60 pounds?

Maybe then he'd have a chance to be Gravedigger II.

[Freak Out]

Gilbert Brown played a whole season with a bicep tear, had surgery afterwards. No issues the following season.

That gives me an idea. Why don't the Packers send Harrell to the nearest Old Country Buffet and tell him not to leave until he's put on another 50 or 60 pounds?

Maybe then he'd have a chance to be Gravedigger II.

The problem is he'd be digging his own grave.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Gilbert Brown played a whole season with a bicep tear, had surgery afterwards. No issues the following season.

That gives me an idea. Why don't the Packers send Harrell to the nearest Old Country Buffet and tell him not to leave until he's put on another 50 or 60 pounds?

Maybe then he'd have a chance to be Gravedigger II.

The problem is he'd be digging his own grave.

True, but until he fell into it he'd be a hell of a load to move off the line.