Our Run Game

[MJZiggy]

This kind of success cannot continue with numbers like that. Can it? At some point something has to done whether it be a trade for a RB or going back to basics and run a draw/screen type compliment to the passing game. Not having seen all the games so far I'm curious how many screens have we run? 1.5 per carry! Air M3 here we come!

some think so, I don't.

If I were chicago, I'd focus on stopping the short pass entirely. Tough? yes, possible? maybe.

if they don't figure it out, someone will.

Don't you think that if they focus on stopping the short pass that Brett will burn them long? We saw him do it last week and if they start trying to stop the long ball and the short pass then that should open up the running game because they're not defending it, don't you think?

[retailguy]

This kind of success cannot continue with numbers like that. Can it? At some point something has to done whether it be a trade for a RB or going back to basics and run a draw/screen type compliment to the passing game. Not having seen all the games so far I'm curious how many screens have we run? 1.5 per carry! Air M3 here we come!

some think so, I don't.

If I were chicago, I'd focus on stopping the short pass entirely. Tough? yes, possible? maybe.

if they don't figure it out, someone will.

Don't you think that if they focus on stopping the short pass that Brett will burn them long? We saw him do it last week and if they start trying to stop the long ball and the short pass then that should open up the running game because they're not defending it, don't you think?

Bretts' strength is not the long ball. He's not that accurate there. But hey, anything is possible. but if we can shut down LT and win, they can shut down the short pass and win, it's the same thing. your best chance comes from stopping your opponents strength.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Chicago and Washington are tough against the run, giving up less than 100 yds. per game, and relatively vulnerable to a passing attack, giving up around 220 yds. per game.

Denver, on the other hand, is tough against the pass, giving up 114 yds. per game and relatively weak against the run, giving up 181 yds. per game (next to last in the NFL).

I don't think McCarthy is going to game plan the rush over the pass until the Denver game. And that game is right after our bye so we'll be able to work on the rushing game for two weeks in practice.

However, as I've said before, passing is easier to simulate on the practice field. ZBS rushing is more dependent on live game experience. McCarthy should have had the first team make more rush attempts in preseason games to work on timing in the ZBS.

Now, he's between a rock and a hard place, needing to get the first team rush attempts in a game, but unable to do it because the teams we've played have been vulnerable to the pass.

What we need is a blowout game in Chicago or Washington, where we get far enough ahead in the first part of the game passing so we can spend the last part of the game running.

If that doesn't happen, we could be in deep trouble when we travel to Denver.

Aware of all this, and barring a blowout against Chicago or Washington, McCarthy may have to do more rushing than he wants to in these next two games. This makes the Chicago and Washington games riskier, but it might be a necessary gamble to take for the sake of the rest of the schedule schedule.

Just my opinion.

[Maxie the Taxi]

An edit to my post above:

I wrote: "This makes the Chicago and Washington games riskier, but it might be a necessary gamble to take for the sake of the rest of the schedule schedule."

That sentence should read: "This makes the Chicago and Washington games riskier, but it might be a necessary gamble to take for the sake of the rest of the regular season and playoff schedules.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It will get better than 54 rushing yards/game. I hope.

Teams can win without a running game. In fact, it's becoming a lot more common.

New England won in 2003 averaging just 3.4 yards/carry and in 2001 averaging just 3.8 yards/carry.

I think it was also pointed out in a McGinn column that only 2 or 3 of the top 10 rushing teams finished above .500 last year--while 5 of the top 7 passing teams finished above .500.

It's like the old adage that you have to run and stop the run has been turned on it's head. Look at the Vikings. One of the best running teams and one of the best defenses against the run, but they don't win. I think it has to do with the fact that it's hard to score in the redzone with just a running team. The teams that score points (and win) have QBs that can throw redzone TDs.

We don't need to average 150 yards/game. However, like LeRoy Butler said, we'll need to bump our rushing average to 90-100 yards/game to keep winning.

[Rastak]

It will get better than 54 rushing yards/game. I hope.

Teams can win without a running game. In fact, it's becoming a lot more common.

New England won in 2003 averaging just 3.4 yards/carry and in 2001 averaging just 3.8 yards/carry.

I think it was also pointed out in a McGinn column that only 2 or 3 of the top 10 rushing teams finished above .500 last year--while 5 of the top 7 passing teams finished above .500.

It's like the old adage that you have to run and stop the run has been turned on it's head. Look at the Vikings. One of the best running teams and one of the best defenses against the run, but they don't win. I think it has to do with the fact that it's hard to score in the redzone with just a running team. The teams that score points (and win) have QBs that can throw redzone TDs.

We don't need to average 150 yards/game. However, like LeRoy Butler said, we'll need to bump our rushing average to 90-100 yards/game to keep winning.

I think you might need even an average QB for it to work....

[Bretsky]

We're winning w/o a running game and it can't get any worse.

Actually we have a running game; it's called high % passes.

I don't think we can win a Super Bowl w/o a running game; but in the NFC we can be successful if Favre keeps playing at the same level he is now.

[RashanGary]

Maxie,

Good point about Denver. I watched them play Indy and I was amazed at how poor their run defense was. I didn't know if Indy was that good or Denver was that bad. I was thinking we needed to run on them, but then I started thinking that maybe the Colts were just that much better than us and we woudln't be able to do that.

I think you are right though. AFter the bye is going to be our best chance at opening up the run game. I'll be curious to see how we do against Denver. If we suck against them, it does NOT bode well for our SB aspirations. No run game might be too much to overcome in the post season and not running on Denver proves that you really do not have a run game.

[Bretsky]

Maxie,

Good point about Denver. I watched them play Indy and I was amazed at how poor their run defense was. I didn't know if Indy was that good or Denver was that bad. I was thinking we needed to run on them, but then I started thinking that maybe the Colts were just that much better than us and we woudln't be able to do that.

I think you are right though. AFter the bye is going to be our best chance at opening up the run game. I'll be curious to see how we do against Denver. If we suck against them, it does NOT bode well for our SB aspirations. No run game might be too much to overcome in the post season and not running on Denver proves that you really do not have a run game.

If the next two games go as I expect them to that Denver game will be very exciting

[woodbuck27]

The Packers have a run game?

Yes we do and. . .

next game Vs da Bears. . .

we may see two of our running backs (evan) go over the 100 yard mark. . .

for the season.

Exciting !!!

Packer Rushing Leaders after 4 games:

..................CAR.... YDS..... AVG ....TD

B.Jackson.... 38...... 97...... 2.6...... 1
D.Wynn....... 23...... 87...... 3.8...... 2

Geeeeee whiz. . . that is almost a 25 yards a game average for these CHAMPS.

For a Green Bay Packer team this is very disconcerting.

It is time to call a ZBS Conference and get this solved.

Various factors are being brought up as to why it has gotten so very bad for our running game:

Is it. . .

1. The loss of a solid and experienced RB that was a leader on and off the field and knew the system better than those selected to remain in our backfield

2. The loss of our Offensive Co-ordinator fr. last season and an inability to compensate that loss

3. The ZBS is realy swell but it takes 3-4-5-6. . . seasons of intensive work in practise and consistent player personnel and coaching to learn and implement the system effectively on game day.

4. The players (tackles Clifton and Tauscher) that we came to know who did very well in the traditional blocking system just cannot seem to get it (ZBS) down

5. an injury nto Spitz

6. Colledge sucks . . no he is really good . .no he sucks . .which is to be determined in the future . . . . when

7. We need more that Scott Wells can offer at Center and he is just too small

8. Junius Costen gets his chance and he is just great. . then he is playing ugly. . see Darren Colledge

9. OR . . .are we simply seeing what some here saw all along since, well see #1 above. Was the potential loss of (slash) loss of. . Ahman Green properly addressed or compensated for. . .

by someone who cannot be mentioned on this forum without the attack squad surfacing and firing up the burning stakes(Question Mark)

Which is it or is it all of the above and I hope not because eventually, this pass happy offense we have. .

a.) Will get countered effectively by the better teams.

b.) A pass happy offense is not going to grind it out and rest our defense over the next 12 games.

SO. . . We all should be very concerned that something happens to fix our running game but of course there will be those that really believe allis well.

Why not take a route suggested by the Samkon Gado intervention. . .

or try something different at the running back position.

Maybe. . . decide who is really the best RB we have and allow him to play.

Gosh. . . it may not be. . . Morency (to some fans surprize).

Are there not any more running back type athletes remaining in the United States or anywhere in the world. . . .

Look at the highlights of Joseph Addai running behind the Colts OL.

He does not pussy foot over the line of scrimage but rather creates his own space by being a superb RB. Is that not what always makes the great RB (Question Mark)

How are Adrian Peterson and Marshawn Lynch looking in their Rookie seasons to date (Question Mark)

I believe we need a better RB (slash) better running backs and maybe someone will just like in the movies walk in off the street and show that he has the real stuff.

I love to dream because being a Packer fan leaves me with just that when it comes to how well we control the clock through running the ball.

GO PACKERS.

[Tarlam!]

Buck, you remind me of my wife. Can't stand her either.

[Merlin]

Like it or not, WB is right. AND our defense is nothing to write home about yet. We have not stopped the run in any game this season. Don't hand me the LT thing because he was gaining yards just fine. The score dictated that SD pass and they did so effectively. MN should never have been within a TD of us, our defense did not play all that well against a very weak offensive team.

Our lack of running game may or may not catch up to us. I think it will but a short controlled passing game (see WCO offense) can and will get you success. The problem is that we aren't even attempting 30-40% of our plays as runs. that's where the WCO makes a difference. Favre's QB rating should be through the roof because this is the type of offense that makes the QB rating soar.

Our running game will continue to stink because our line simply cannot run block.

[Zool]

Don't hand me the LT thing because he was gaining yards just fine. The score dictated that SD pass and they did so effectively.

FIRST QUARTER SDG GNB
TD 07:07 Vincent Jackson 27 Yd Pass From Philip Rivers (Nate Kaeding Kick) 7 0
FG 02:40 Mason Crosby 28 Yd 7 3

SECOND QUARTER SDG GNB
TD 11:53 Donald Driver 5 Yd Pass From Brett Favre (Mason Crosby Kick) 7 10
TD 02:48 Bubba Franks 5 Yd Pass From Brett Favre (Mason Crosby Kick) 7 17
TD 00:32 Craig Davis 9 Yd Pass From Philip Rivers (Nate Kaeding Kick) 14 17

THIRD QUARTER SDG GNB
TD 09:02 Ladainian Tomlinson 21 Yd Pass From Philip Rivers (Nate Kaeding Kick) 21 17

FOURTH QUARTER SDG GNB
TD 02:03 Greg Jennings 57 Yd Pass From Brett Favre (Mason Crosby Kick) 21 24
TD 00:59 Brandon Jackson 1 Yd Run (Mason Crosby Kick) 21 31
FG 00:20 Nate Kaeding 44 Yd 24 31


Other than late in the game when they were down with 2:00 left, when did the score dictate that they pass?

[Zool]

LT's longest run for the day was 11 yards, and it was specifically commented on at the time that "finally he breaks out into the open" by the announcers.


L. Tomlinson 22 62 2.8 0 11
M. Turner 4 12 3.0 0 9
L. Neal 1 0 0.0 0 0
P. Rivers 1 -1 -1.0 0 0
Team 28 73 2.6 0 11


No one on their team was running the ball well. I'm not saying that SD is even decent at running the ball, but geeze dont just throw crap into your posts thats so far inaccurate.

[retailguy]

Look, I've been critical of the packers run game too. Hell, that's probably one thing anyone with a brain can see and agree with. We might not agree on the solution, but we damn well better agree there is a problem.

Tomlinson did not run well. He ran 22 times, that's a fair amount, so it is reasonable to conclude that the Packers did shut him down somewhat. I'll buy that conclusion.

Now, post Philip Rivers stats for the day. He simply carved us up. In a losing effort, notwithstanding, but it was impressive none the less.

Quite honestly, these Packers have played well on D, but seemingly shut down one or the other. So far, they've managed to shut down the right one to win the game, not taking anything away, but don't claim the "D" was great, when Rivers threw for 306 yards and 3tds.

Now, McNabb and the Eagles stunk on both sides of the ball, (as did we on Offense), the Giants Derrick Ward averaged 6yards per carry. Who is Derrick Ward? Exactly. Yet they won, handily.

Adrian Peterson made our Defense look like turnstiles, even if you take out the 50 yard run. Chester Taylor also kicked off a large gain too.

I know, I know, the whole "they bent, but they didn't break". I'm not there. I see it, and we WON, but still, they can't be described as "suffocating", that's for sure.

Harvey is right. The run game has to improve. WB's complaint is valid, like it or not. Yeah, maybe he's a negative jerk, but he's still right. (Love ya Woody... )

Let's stop debating stupid shit. The D is good, NOT great (yet). The O has come along well the past few weeks, but RB and OL still largely stink.

So, I want to know. What do we do, IF, Lovie Smith finds a way with his depleted defense to shut down the short pass? Do we rely on Favre's long ball, or do we run? If so, with who?

Next - the team is largely one-dimensional right now. It's short pass controlled with the faith in BF. What does McCarthy try first, when Chicago, or our next opponent figures out how to stop the short pass. After all, I believe someone WILL, it's just a matter of time. To those of you who think I'm full of it, I ask the following question - If we can figure out how to shut down LT and WestBrook, why can't some other DC figure out how to shut down the short pass?