Zone Blocking/Pass Protection

[Tarlam!]

Quick aside question:

Why do defences only need 4 linemen, while offenses need 5?

[swede]

Offenses are restricted by rule to legal formations at a certain distance from the line of scrimmage and with certain splits between players.

As far as I know the defense can do what they want other than line up offsides.

In ye olde leather helmet days I think defenses mirrored the offense more closely.

[swede]

Eeegads my first PR double post!

[BooHoo]

I hope the coaches get this all figured out before this fall. Sounds like an esay system to teach but do we have the right personnel for the job? Hate to have a repeat of last year. The OLine did not perform well enough last year.

[Joemailman]

I hope the coaches get this all figured out before this fall. Sounds like an esay system to teach but do we have the right personnel for the job? Hate to have a repeat of last year. The OLine did not perform well enough last year.

One thing you won't see is the coaching staff waiting until just days before the start of the season before deciding who their starting guards are. That should help. Look for McCarthy to have that figured out in time for the 3rd pre-season game.

[BooHoo]

I hope the coaches get this all figured out before this fall. Sounds like an esay system to teach but do we have the right personnel for the job? Hate to have a repeat of last year. The OLine did not perform well enough last year.

One thing you won't see is the coaching staff waiting until just days before the start of the season before deciding who their starting guards are. That should help. Look for McCarthy to have that figured out in time for the 3rd pre-season game.

Agreed. Maybe that was a big part of the problem last year.

[wist43]

Can't imagine that Wells is a legit 304... nor do I think Coston is a legit 313. I'm sure both of them have bulked over the offseason, but neither guy is very big.

-----------------------------

As for the question 5OL vs 4 DL... it simply is the most workable configuration for both units. The NFL does have a rule which states that both OT's must be covered, i.e. there has to be 7 players on the LOS.

The defense is under no such restriction - however, it is more difficult to play defense than it is to play offense - there are simply too many unknowns and variables to account for - not to mention the fact that the defense not only has to defend the offensive players, they have to defend the field as well.

Of course, that's oversimplifying it, but in a nutshell it works.

[ND72]

in response to the first question...some teams put the pass protection emphasis over run blocking. in a zone blocking team, you should find good pass protectors first. cause honestly, zone blocking is designed to "hide" weaknesses in the run blocking because it is all angle blocking. as long as you can move laterally you will be ok.

Honestly, going from HS to College for me was going from a straight ahead, power run team, to a zone blocking team. So I had a lot to learn. But once your learn what angles to take, and where guys are and what all is going on, it's an amazing scheme. You will see our OL guys making a lot more calls at the line than you ever heard or saw under sherman. I know at my D-2 school...at the guard position, I had about 7 calls i could make one 1 play. telling the center where my guy is, possibly telling hte center where he's going, telling the tackle where he goes, maybe calling out a cut possibility if i'm the backside.

we had GAT (guard around tackle) on the front side, TAG (tackle around guard on the back side) COG (center over guard on the front side) GAC (guard around center on the back side) TUG (tackle under guard, where the backside Tackle would cut the DT and the guard woudl get up to the LB) CUG (same thing as TUG but the center would do it, on the front side)...and those are the ones i remember. we also had some calls for the TE if the TE was in there, and the FB if the FB was part of the block.

I think our best 5 starters in this system will be Clifton, Colledge, Wells, Conston, Tauscher...all of them are athletic enough to run block, and all of them can pass block. Barry could beat out Conston. I saw someone say Wells got kind of beat around, which is true, but he played guard most of hte year, and believe it or not, he fits perfectly at Center in this type of offense. In pass plays, unless he's linedup head on, he'll be a "chip" person where he'll just float, check for blitz's and end up getting crack blocks if he has nobody to block.

[Deputy Nutz]

We ran the zone scheme in high school, and it was perfect. We were athletic with the largest kid weighing 250 pounds, and the smallest weighing 180. At any other high school I probably would have played at my true position, backup quarterback. We could all pass block, if you can't pass block as an offensive lineman, you should be taken out back and shot. Regardless of what level you are playing, pass blocking is the easiest and easiest to learn. In college our offensive line was really young with only one returning starter, we couldn't run the ball for shit, so we threw the ball 40 times a game.

Pass blocking will be the standard for who starts and who sits the pine in Green Bay. If you can't protect Favre, you sit, and sit some more.

[motife]

http://www2.jsonline.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=33326&catID=7&sessionID={1ED41A5F-77A0-48A1-893E-53DA52BEB175}
from Tank : (I hope he didn't get banned.)

"Under Mike Sherman, the Pack had one of the best rushing attacks in the History of the NFL. All Sherman's work, work that are for the good of the Packers, dismantled by the Polar Bear; obliterated by McCarthy.

The Zone Blocking scheme is a mistake.

McCarthy thinks he's a football genius. All he has caused is heartaches for Aaron Brooks and that rookie qb the 49ers drafted last year (what's his name again?). McCarthy has never been a winner in the NFL. McCarthy is Thompson’s new partner… in marriage. Jagodzinski thinks he is better than Sherman with his "I told (Berry) the 'U-71' package is done" remark. WTF? The Falcons lead the NFL in rushing last year not because of Jagodzinki's cheap shots zone blocking scheme but because of Michael Vick. Vick paved the way for Dunn because defenses had to respect the faclons bootleg plays, thus opening up holes for Dunn to run between the tackles.

All in all, we, Packers fans the world over, would be lucky if McCarthy and Jagodzinski turn out to be a fraction as good as Sherman and Rossey.

O Polar Bear, Polar Bear! Wherefore art thou Polar Bear?"

[Iron Mike]

Wells is very small, however... If Wells is going to be the starter, the Packers will probably have to give him help when he has Sean Rogers or Kevin Williams lined up on his nose.

Don't you think most of the NFC North DTs will be spending most of the game worrying about getting their knees blown out by being cut blocked???

[Noodle]

Don't you think most of the NFC North DTs will be spending most of the game worrying about getting their knees blown out by being cut blocked???

I for one do not want to see the Pack get the kind of rep that Denver's line had of being cheapshot artists. Can you imagine Lombardi supporting that kind of crap?

Football is brutal, but aiming to blow out knees has no place in the game. I know you weren't advocating that, Iron Mike, but there's no question this system with its focus on cut blocks can be played dirty, just like Denver. I am going to be watching how we implement this system. I never played it, and guys who have said it doesn't have to be dirty. So I'm willing to wait and watch.

Green Bay stands for something. And it's not career-ending cuts at the knees.

[Iron Mike]

I know you weren't advocating that, Iron Mike, but there's no question this system with its focus on cut blocks can be played dirty, just like Denver.
Green Bay stands for something. And it's not career-ending cuts at the knees.

Yeah--definitely NOT advocating that..........just trying to make the point that the threat of the cut block seems to slow down some of the pass rush that everyone else thinks will be the end of BFs career.

I will admit though--I probably wouldn't have gotten too bent out of shape were Clifton able to get some payback on Sapp with a legal cut block!!!!

[KYPack]

We ran the zone scheme in high school, and it was perfect. We were athletic with the largest kid weighing 250 pounds, and the smallest weighing 180. At any other high school I probably would have played at my true position, backup quarterback. We could all pass block, if you can't pass block as an offensive lineman, you should be taken out back and shot. Regardless of what level you are playing, pass blocking is the easiest and easiest to learn. In college our offensive line was really young with only one returning starter, we couldn't run the ball for shit, so we threw the ball 40 times a game.

Pass blocking will be the standard for who starts and who sits the pine in Green Bay. If you can't protect Favre, you sit, and sit some more.

OK Nutz. This post makes sense. Your previous post made me think you were saying that we could run rollouts, quicks and other scheme's to compensate for our inexperienced guards in pass blocking.

I wanted to know WTF you were thinking.

You are right, pass blocking is a basic. We've got to get two guards who can cowboy up and get their protections executed. I have an expectation that Colledge will get it done. I hope Coston will, too.

Whatever the the cost, we've gotta get two guys who can protecdt Brett to the Max. Roll-outs and the other tricks won't get us thru the year.

I hope they can keep Verba floating around until we get an idea that Coston is OK. Ross might not be the ideal guard for the Zone run scheme, but he can pass protect.

[ND72]

We ran the zone scheme in high school, and it was perfect. We were athletic with the largest kid weighing 250 pounds, and the smallest weighing 180. At any other high school I probably would have played at my true position, backup quarterback. We could all pass block, if you can't pass block as an offensive lineman, you should be taken out back and shot. Regardless of what level you are playing, pass blocking is the easiest and easiest to learn. In college our offensive line was really young with only one returning starter, we couldn't run the ball for shit, so we threw the ball 40 times a game.

Pass blocking will be the standard for who starts and who sits the pine in Green Bay. If you can't protect Favre, you sit, and sit some more.

Up until you said pass protection is the easiest block to learn, i believed in everything you said. I think the Proper Pass Pro, the kick slide, is the most difficult pass protection, which all NFL teams use, and i'd say 99.9% of all colleges use today. It's extremely difficult, especially if you come from a smaller school who doesn't do it. It took me more time to learn how to pass pro at the next level than anything else. Then you add a person in there you actually ahve to block, not easy at all.