Collins coming all the way back?

[Harlan Huckleby]

But according to you, no one's opinion is any better than anyone else's.

No, I did not say this. I'm saying talent evaluation is highly subjective.

[mraynrand]

your opinion is no better than anybody else's.

[Harlan Huckleby]

your opinion is no better than anybody else's.

OK, I was being too kind. And you interpreted me literally. Let me restate it this way:

Your opinion is worse than most. You don't even notice obvious things, like that Leroy Butler was unable to run late in his career, or that Dawkins is a far better player than Collins.

[mraynrand]

Coloring the Packers
By BOB McGINN
bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Sept. 15, 2007
Last week, a personnel director for another NFL team provided this color-coded rating of 60 players under contract to the Green Bay Packers. The executive evaluates players year-round and takes into consideration performance in exhibition games, especially by young players. The scout says a player's production and durability are key elements in his grading system, as well as character. Each player is assigned a color category.

BLUE: Makes big plays on a consistent basis. Will win games. Among the top two or three at his position. Perennial all-pro.

RED: A very good player capable of making big plays. Probably among the top 10 at his position. Has a chance to make the Pro Bowl.

PURPLE: A solid starter. He won't be going to the Pro Bowl, but a team can win with him. Can't win games but won't lose them, either.

GREEN: A backup. If he's young, a team would be content with him. If he's older, a team would be looking to replace him.

YELLOW: A young player who hasn't played much and might have a chance to develop. Anyone else, you don't want on the roster.

PACKERS BREAKDOWN


PURPLES (19): WR Donald Driver (+), WR Greg Jennings (-), T Chad Clifton, T Mark Tauscher, G Jason Spitz, G Daryn Colledge, C Scott Wells (-), QB Brett Favre, DT Corey Williams (+), DT Ryan Pickett, DE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (-), LB A.J. Hawk (+), LB Nick Barnett (+), CB Charles Woodson (+), CB Al Harris, S Nick Collins, P Jon Ryan (+), LS Rob Davis (+), K Mason Crosby.

----
But what difference does it make? His opinion is no better than anyone else's. according to HH. The opinion of a 3 year old kid from the Sudan carries no less or no more weight (no pun intended).

[Lurker64]

Can we just get along and hope that Rouse plays well enough to make it controversial whether Collins gets his job back, but Collins plays well enough that it's hard to keep him out of the game?

Collins is alternatively great and awful, above average and below average. The kid fills me with both hope and despair. Rouse is an unknown, and that worries me.

[mraynrand]

your opinion is no better than anybody else's.

OK, I was being too kind. And you interpreted me literally. Let me restate it this way:

Your opinion is worse than most. You don't even notice obvious things, like that Leroy Butler was unable to run late in his career, or that Dawkins is a far better player than Collins.

That's more like it. So you do have a point of view. Granted it's based on hope rather than stats and football sense, and you can't identify subtleties in argument, but we can work on that. Did I claim that Butler could run well late in his career? Did I say Dawkins wasn't far better than Collins? Of course not. Only you made those claims on my behalf. I claimed that Butler was not 'just a guy' at the end of his career (you claimed he was and I disputed that) Chris Akins and Bahwoh Jue were 'just guys.' I never said Dawkins wasn't far better than Collins. I made the point that his stats are not amazingly different that Collins' and he (Dawkins) played for a far better defense the past two years. Those things are relevant to the comparison of players, to decide whether Collins is 'above average' as I claim. His stats put him above the NFL average and closer to the best than to the average. That's what the stats say. Next, add in that he looked so so in his first two seasons and perhaps a little better this year, with fewer lapses each season - in my estimation from watching the games, and I think it's obvious that he's above average. I think your statements continually make you look like a poor thinking, poor arguing, shallow evaluator of talent. But that's OK, since your opinion is no better than anyone else's.

[mraynrand]

Collins is alternatively great and awful, above average and below average.

That's a great take, if your goal is to be wishy-washy.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Did I claim that Butler could run well late in his career? Did I say Dawkins wasn't far better than Collins? Of course not.

You just got done arguing that Butler played at high level to the end; and you made a statistical argument that Dawkins is comparable to Collins.

Guess we can chalk this up to my inability to appreciate the subtlty of your argument. Your fine nuance.

You one slick guy!

[Brohm]

Not in any reference to the discussion at hand, but it's intersting to see just how far off base scouts can be in rating a team in the preseason.

Jennings and KGB: Purple (-)? Amongst others.

[mraynrand]

you made a statistical argument that Dawkins is comparable to Collins.

Let me walk you carefully through this. I used statistics to help compare Collins and Dawkins. I did not use statistics to argue that they were comparable. In fact, they are comparable by definition. I assume you meant to mischaracterize my position as saying that Collins was as good as Dawkins. I did no such thing. Read carefully through the thread and my argument and you will see that I argue that the stats say they are not as far apart as you might expect for the best safety (Dawkins) and 'just a guy.' Collins' stats are above the level of the NFL average at safety. That, along with evaluation of gameplay put him closer to above average than to being 'just a guy.' That's my argument.

[Harlan Huckleby]

intellectual heft

This could be where you took a wrong turn. An opinion on how good a football player plays is not an intellectual exercise.

[mraynrand]

intellectual heft

This could be where you took a wrong turn. An opinion on how good a football player looks is not an intellectual exercise.

Certainly not for you. For you it's medulla level hopeful thinking.

[KYPack]

?

What is wrong with you two motherfuckers?

[Zool]

Assume both of you chew your ice cubes?

[Run2win38]

Regarding our secondary - it's interesting that these two will be free agents next year - at least that's what I read on another forum

SS Bob Sanders, Indianapolis Colts

CB Asante Samuel , New England Patriots

They'll probably get tagged

Does that extra cap space the Packers have roll over to the following year?