Walker: Thompson drove me from Green Bay

[Patler]

Wahle was on his SECOND contract. How this can be defined as being strung along is beyond me. He and the team knew that 2005 was either renegotiate or head back to FA. McKenzie was on his SECOND deal. He and his agent miscalculated and he took a deal that was below market 3 months later. Singing a guy early is exactly what you are suggesting, and McKenzie is example #1 of how this can go bad.

I don't care if it is a FIRST, SECOND, or EIGHTH contract. The point isn't signing a guy early...it is treating guys fairly when it is in the best interest of the team.

McKenzie was treated unfairly. It is entirely his fault...he had incompetent advisors...but Green Bay should not have taken advantage of the situation as they did. It sends a dangerous message to the players that the team doesn't really give a crap about them...and will screw them over any chance they get. I don't condone that one bit. That again is part of my point. I want Green Bay to RESPECT the players on the roster...and try to do the RIGHT thing. Mike McKenzie was a valuable player for this franchise...screwing him over was the wrong thing to do, regardless of the IQ of his agent. The Packers knew his value...they should've tried to craft a deal that was fair, because in the end an unfair deal will typically bite you in the ass.

I also disagree with the notion that McKenzie was treated unfairly. He signed a somewhat undervalued contract in 2002, but it was worth more than $17 million over 5 years. Plus, he was signed a full year in advance of the expiration of his existing contract, and that should earn somewhat of a discount. What made it look worse was that shortly after McKenzie signed, cornerback salaries went up a lot. McKenzie went from being extremely happy in January 2002, to be a disgruntled malcontent in January 2004.

[Scott Campbell]

Yeah. What Shamrock said.

[The Leaper]

Delays in signing free agents are not always caused by the team, and in this instance I am convinced that Franks was more than happy to string things along and see how it played out. It was the smart thing to do on his part.

I did not suggest that Franks wasn't smart in taking a wait and see approach once he hit the free agent market. If you want to maximize your value, you typically don't jump at the first offer you see. That is why it was clear that Thompson had no chance of keeping Wahle in town last year. It wasn't about maximizing his value...he jumped at the first offer he got from a solid team a couple hours into free agency. Wahle easily could've upped his value even more...he was a marquee free agent and would've had a lot of interest.

All of these points I bring up relate to how players view the team in regard to negotiations. My point is that Green Bay is starting to get a reputation for being cheap and hard to deal with. That needs to be nipped in the bud. Green Bay isn't exactly the greatest town to call home for an NFL player. Negative items relating to the team are not a good way to attract potential free agents...now or in the future.

That is why I have supported reworking Driver's deal since last season. He deserved to be paid more. It wasn't something that Green Bay HAD to do...but it was something they SHOULD do. It makes a statement to the players that hard work and character are rewarded in Green Bay.

[The Leaper]

I also disagree with the notion that McKenzie was treated unfairly. He signed a somewhat undervalued contract in 2002, but it was worth more than $17 million over 5 years. Plus, he was signed a full year in advance of the expiration of his existing contract, and that should earn somewhat of a discount. What made it look worse was that shortly after McKenzie signed, cornerback salaries went up a lot. McKenzie went from being extremely happy in January 2002, to be a disgruntled malcontent in January 2004.

I'm sorry, but it was pretty clear that CB salaries were going to increase greatly in the near future when McKenzie resigned...numerous high profile CBs were nearing the end of their deals. Did Green Bay expect these high profile guys to not drive up the pay scale at the position enormously?

You simply can't look at whether or not a guy is fairly paid RIGHT NOW...but 2-3 years down the road. Otherwise, an underpaid player is going to pull the same stunts we've seen from McKenzie and Walker...because that is just how business is in the NFL these days. If a team SEES that a valuable player isn't being paid fairly, they should take steps to see if it can be corrected. Green Bay failed twice in that regard with both McKenzie and Walker...and were fortunate to get the value they did in return for those guys. Next time, it might not be as pretty.

I'm not suggesting Green Bay roll over whenever someone gripes. However, you can't always take a hard line stance either. You also need to be consistent in your approach. In the last 4-5 years, Green Bay has been all over the map. I would like to see Thompson bring some consistency and fairness to the equation.

[Patler]

All of these points I bring up relate to how players view the team in regard to negotiations. My point is that Green Bay is starting to get a reputation for being cheap and hard to deal with.

But that is exactly where I disagree with you. The examples fans keep bringing up to illustrate GB being cheap or hard to deal with are wrong, completely wrong.

McKenzie is not an example, he got a very nice deal for a player that would still have been a restricted free agent and could have been kept around for at least another year very cheaply.

Wahle is not an example. He was paid very well, and had a very advantageous position in 2005.
Franks is not an example, as explained earlier. He has been paid fairly.
Tauscher is not an example, he was paid while still injured.
Clifton got a very nice deal for his time.
Harris got a very nice contract, well before his expired.
Kampman has been given a very good contract.

Green has been paid well previously, and now has been given an opportunity to come back from an injury and still be paid quite well if he does.

Manuel, Pickett and Woodson have all received very good and very fair free agent contract.

Driver was paid fairly last time, and has now been upgraded significantly.

Where is all this unfairness, or difficulty in dealing with? McKenzie because in 24 months he went from being very happy to be disgruntled while earning $3+ million per year on a 5 year contract? Walker because he had one very good year in 3 and had been paid about $6 million dollars for those three years? Basically you have had two examples of players who did very abrupt about-faces because of extenuating circumstances, and showed very little willingness to work with the team in correcting any "injustice" that may have been done to them. Sometimes you have to wait your turn, and neither one was being treated that horrendously.

As far as "cheapness" in tenders to RFAs like Diggs and KGB, as a successful team with quite a few very highly compensated players, until this offseason the Packers have been skirting cap limitations for years. That means several deserving players will be offered less for a time. Eventually, it becomes "their turn" and the money shows up. With a salary cap, someone is always underpaid.

[Patler]

I'm sorry, but it was pretty clear that CB salaries were going to increase greatly in the near future when McKenzie resigned...numerous high profile CBs were nearing the end of their deals. Did Green Bay expect these high profile guys to not drive up the pay scale at the position enormously?

The point that everyone always forgets with McKenzie is that GB negotiated the deal, gave him a $3.5 million bonus on a $17+ million contract when he still had a full season remaining as a restricted free agent. Basically, in 2002 GB could have kept him around for something like $500,000. Instead, GB gave him a nice chunck of cash for that time, took on the risk that he would be injured, and pushed out his window to free agency by 4 years from what it was. Rather than a 5 year $17+ million dollar contract, it was really a 4 year $16.5 million contract, because GB was assured a year at a half million anyway. They paid just under $17 million for the additional four years. McKenzies contract was not out of line. You can't directly compare with contracts signed by unrestricted free agents.

It's kind of funny, because the Packers are criticitzed for mishandling both McKenzie and Walker, as if they made the same mistake twice. In actuality they handled them just about opposite. One time they renegotiated early, the other time they refused to.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't think McKenzie's issue was about money, he just wanted out.

[Patler]

I don't think McKenzie's issue was about money, he just wanted out.

I agree.

I think Walker preferred to leave too, but may have been less set on it than McKenzie was. Walker's approach did not have the feeling of a player who wanted to work out something and stay in GB, even last year.

[The Leaper]

The point that everyone always forgets with McKenzie is that GB negotiated the deal, gave him a $3.5 million bonus on a $17+ million contract when he still had a full season remaining as a restricted free agent.

I had forgotten that he was a restricted FA...that point does have a lot of bearing on that deal. I also agree he left Green Bay for issues other than just money.