Odd man out in secondary

[KYPack]

This gives us cushion.

Rouse at 100% will be better than Collins at 80%

Collins at 100% plays and starts.

With Rouse, we've got a good kid who may just be a star someday. He ain't gonna replace Nick this year, unless Collins knee doesn't come around.

These nickle questions make me think some of ya don't understand the nickle at all.

[Scott Campbell]

These nickle questions make me think some of ya don't understand the nickle at all.

Neither did Brett, so were in good company.

[Harlan Huckleby]

These nickle questions make me think some of ya don't understand the nickle at all.

Do you think Nick Collins could play nickle?

I am not EXACTLY sure of the skill-set for a nickle. Interesting comment on tv tonight (I think from Champ Bailey?), only about half a dozen corners in the NFL are capable of playing "true man to man." By this I take it that most man-to-man schemes provide some safety help to the corner, they aren't totally on an island.

[Lurker64]

I'm not aware of a defensive formation (short of umbrella coverage) that runs three safeties, and the skillset for a corner and a safety are sufficiently different and I don't think any of the youngsters could play both (Charles Woodson, for example, could play either position).

So I'm going to have to go with the safety that's shown us the least, that being Rouse. Rouse might be a superstar with time, but he hasn't shown me to be solid in coverage and he still takes bad angles. With seasoning, he could be great. But for now I'm anxious for Collins to be back at 100% and mostly looking for Rouse to not screw up/make an impact on special teams.

[mraynrand]

These nickle questions make me think some of ya don't understand the nickle at all.

Do you think Nick Collins could play nickle?

I am not EXACTLY sure of the skill-set for a nickle. Interesting comment on tv tonight (I think from Champ Bailey?), only about half a dozen corners in the NFL are capable of playing "true man to man." By this I take it that most man-to-man schemes provide some safety help to the corner, they aren't totally on an island.

Give that man a cigar! Yep, a lot of corners just play inside or outside technique and 'steer' their guy to the safeties or to a zone. That's why when you hear them say that corners are playing man 'underneath' that means they play man until the receiver gets a certain depth, then they release. True man to man, requires you to stay with one guy for the duration of the play. And when you have a shut down corner like a Deion Sanders in his prime (time), you basically can eliminate the opponent's best WR and then play whatever you want against the rest of the offense. That's why Woodson and Harris are so valuable, because they do play true man to man on a good number of plays every game. At other times, depending on the down and distance, they will play a limited man coverage and release their guy to the safeties if he tries to drag them across the middle. The Packers are much better at this than last year (they got smoked by crossing routes against the the Jets and Patsies) because of better QB pressure and because of overall better cooperation in the secondary .

[Harlan Huckleby]

that runs three safeties, and the skillset for a corner and a safety are sufficiently different

I could be off base on this, but I doubt that a very fast, starting free safety would have trouble adjusting to the nickle position. Only "trouble" would be accepting the demotion. I doubt the nickle back ever has to cover a #1 or #2 receiver man-to-man.

I'm not suggesting a saftey could typically be a starting CB!

[HarveyWallbangers]

that runs three safeties, and the skillset for a corner and a safety are sufficiently different

I could be off base on this, but I doubt that a very fast, starting free safety would have trouble adjusting to the nickle position. Only "trouble" would be accepting the demotion. I doubt the nickle back ever has to cover a #1 or #2 receiver man-to-man.

Not necessarily. Harris usually plays RCB. Woodson takes the slot receiver on the left. There are times when the nickel has to play the #1 or #2 receiver. Most of the time he'd have safety help over the top though. Most safeties aren't good enough to cover good WRs one-on-one. The few that can (Butler, Ed Reed), etc. are usually All-Pro guys. Hell, our safeties have a hard time covering TEs at times.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Is Al still covering #1 receivers the whole game? I haven't heard much made about that this year. He could be, but it seems to me that he's playing RCB on most plays--unless the offense has two wides to the right.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Nick's bio at packers.com

http://www.packers.com/team/players/collins_nick/

It's rare for a team's fastest defensive back to be a safety, but it's true here, and his speed allows him to shift from safety to cornerback in different defenses if needed.

[Partial]

I don't think someone like Collins would be a stud as a corner or anything like that, but I think he'd probably decent as a nickelback.

[Harlan Huckleby]

College report.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8179

As a senior in 2004, Collins moved to cornerback and once again was a fulltime starter.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't think someone like Collins would be a stud as a corner or anything like that, but I think he'd probably decent as a nickelback.

I bet he'd be better than Jarrett Bush. I don't know, I'm just speculating, but I bet the coaches would have a definitive answer.

[mraynrand]

Nick's bio at packers.com

http://www.packers.com/team/players/collins_nick/

It's rare for a team's fastest defensive back to be a safety, but it's true here, and his speed allows him to shift from safety to cornerback in different defenses if needed.

Yes he can shift to man, he has the speed, but he's been burned horribly in that position in several games. None worse than against NO last year. It's not just an issue of speed for Collins. I think his biggest problem in general is indecision - both in man coverage and as a safety.

[mraynrand]

I don't think someone like Collins would be a stud as a corner or anything like that, but I think he'd probably decent as a nickelback.

I bet he'd be better than Jarrett Bush. I don't know, but I bet the coaches would have a definitive answer.

I think Bush is steadily improving.

[HarveyWallbangers]

College report.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8179

As a senior in 2004, Collins moved to cornerback and once again was a fulltime starter.

Who cares? Plenty of pro safeties were corners in college. He played at Bethune-Cookman. I doubt he played more than one or two WRs that play in the pros. Playing corner is more than just speed.