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JSO McGinn : how good is Ryan Grant, preview 08 Draft

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  • #16
    Originally posted by pbmax
    I agree with the scout that Grant is the beneficiary of not being the target of the defense. There are few occasions he runs against eight in the box and defense are clearly more concerned with the pass. And the Packers have had trouble (some of it before Grant) in short yardage. Grant also is just slow enough to be tripped from behind while there is a hole in front of him.
    He might see less 8 men in the box, but he also has an OL that doesn't run block well. You can rip him apart if you want, but I think it's pretty easy to see his many strengths. He finds holes, he hits them hard, he's big, he's fast, and he has forward body lean. I don't understand what a scout wouldn't like about him--other than they missed on his evaluation coming out of college.
    "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

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    • #17
      Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
      Originally posted by pbmax
      I agree with the scout that Grant is the beneficiary of not being the target of the defense. There are few occasions he runs against eight in the box and defense are clearly more concerned with the pass. And the Packers have had trouble (some of it before Grant) in short yardage. Grant also is just slow enough to be tripped from behind while there is a hole in front of him.
      He might see less 8 men in the box, but he also has an OL that doesn't run block well. You can rip him apart if you want, but I think it's pretty easy to see his many strengths. He finds holes, he hits them hard, he's big, he's fast, and he has forward body lean. I don't understand what a scout wouldn't like about him--other than they missed on his evaluation coming out of college.
      2nded

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      • #18
        I am not ripping him apart. You can add, "moves the pile forward after contact" to his list of positives. And its questionable to say you can read the scouts mind and motives from a couple of quotes in the paper.

        But he doesn't have top end speed and has been caught and tripped in the hole numerous times from behind, leaving yards on the table.

        He doesn't have much shake or wiggle and I THINK (as in not sure) that he isn't big enough to run through or over tackles (not just lean forward while falling down) consistently even though his listed weight is near 230 lbs. He looks lean.

        In essence I am saying he's average to above average. The kind of player you might be looking to improve upon and the kind of player who causes front offices to continue to look for quality backups. Especially given the short careers of RBs.

        And I think the O Line has been run blocking better the later in the year we get. Some of this is scheme, running against nickel, but there are more cutback lanes than at any time for Ahman last year.

        Of course, I also admitted in the other thread that I thought these guys were going 7-9 this season, so what do I know

        Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
        Originally posted by pbmax
        I agree with the scout that Grant is the beneficiary of not being the target of the defense. There are few occasions he runs against eight in the box and defense are clearly more concerned with the pass. And the Packers have had trouble (some of it before Grant) in short yardage. Grant also is just slow enough to be tripped from behind while there is a hole in front of him.
        He might see less 8 men in the box, but he also has an OL that doesn't run block well. You can rip him apart if you want, but I think it's pretty easy to see his many strengths. He finds holes, he hits them hard, he's big, he's fast, and he has forward body lean. I don't understand what a scout wouldn't like about him--other than they missed on his evaluation coming out of college.
        Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

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        • #19
          NFL Scouts might not be as bad as Major League Baseball scouts, but they are typically very grumpy people and they usually have about three negative comments for every positive comment they dish out.

          Grant has been successful and some of them missed it because of his lack of play at Notre Dame.

          New York probably wishes that they still had him with all their problems at running back.

          The way I look at it, if this is what we get out of a 6th round pick, then I will take it.

          Our running game really reminds me of the teams in the mid 90s, not a dominant running game, but just enough to worry other teams.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by pbmax
            I am not ripping him apart. You can add, "moves the pile forward after contact" to his list of positives. And its questionable to say you can read the scouts mind and motives from a couple of quotes in the paper.

            But he doesn't have top end speed and has been caught and tripped in the hole numerous times from behind, leaving yards on the table.

            He doesn't have much shake or wiggle and I THINK (as in not sure) that he isn't big enough to run through or over tackles (not just lean forward while falling down) consistently even though his listed weight is near 230 lbs. He looks lean.
            As far as scouts, it's just an observation from reading columns like McGinn's columns over the years. Their evaluation seems to stick with most of them, and that's human nature. I'd think the good ones wouldn't be clouded by this.

            Grant ran 4.45 coming out of college. Plenty fast enough.

            As far as tripping himself up, I saw that a little bit today. Could have been the turf. That hasn't been a big issue before today in my eyes. I think he has plenty of wiggle for a guy that's 6'1" 220. The reports comparing him to Dorsey Levens are dead on, IMHO. I must be watching a different guy than you. He's made people miss. He's ran over people. He's fights for extra yards. He's big. He's plenty fast enough. He seems to be somewhat slippery in the open field. The guy is good. He's not Adrian Peterson or LT, but not many runners have been close to that good.
            "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

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            • #21
              Gannon today said McCarthy was reminded (by Grant) of Marcus Allen with his body lean.

              Re-reading the above critique, I also remember that Allen was, compared to to other RBs, slightly built and didn't have the body to run over people.

              But he's a hall of famer because he knew how to make you miss and had enough speed to hurt you if he got to the second level.

              The other trait I remember Allen having that many backs do not, is that he could choose the best hole and path to maximize blocking and make the tackling angles bad for the defense. Call it good vision or good reads, he hurt you with his choice of where to run.

              Grant seems to choose holes well and does a very good job of taking good routes through the defense. He also has had enough speed to make the endzone from 20+ yards out.

              So might we be talking about a difference of in hole acceleration between our current RB and a Hall of Famer?

              But that speed difference is why scouts time prospects down to the 1/100th of a second. And its why Thompson might draft more running backs.
              Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

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              • #22
                He certainly looks good enough to get the job done. That's for sure. I don't think he'll ever be able to carry the load like a Peterson can, but as everyone as said there aren't many players who can.

                I suspect he'll at the very least be #1 or #2 here for several years.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
                  I must be watching a different guy than you. He's made people miss. He's ran over people. He's fights for extra yards. He's big.
                  I have seen him gain yards after hitting people, but its often the same guy making the tackle. He gets the extra yards, but he doesn't break the tackle. That's what I have seen.
                  Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

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                  • #24
                    There were moments on his 25th birthday today when Ryan Grant looked like he was running with weights strapped to his ankles — a side effect of the long, studlike cleats running backs coach Edgar Bennett recommended Grant wear on the hardened winter turf at Lambeau Field.

                    Grant swears those cleats will stay in his locker from now on, but neither shoe trouble nor the shoddy Oakland Raiders run defense stopped the first-year pro from putting together another remarkable performance. He ran for a career-high 156 yards on 29 carries (5.4 average) and a touchdown in the Green Bay Packers’ 38-7 rout, increasing his totals to 717 rushing yards in seven games since he replaced DeShawn Wynn as the Packers’ featured back in the second quarter Oct. 29. No one in the NFL has rushed for more yards in that span.
                    "There's a lot of interest in the draft. It's great. But quite frankly, most of the people that are commenting on it don't know anything about what they are talking about."--Ted Thompson

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Grant has been amazing considering where the run game was prior to his insertion. But careful about getting too excited about a run game versus the Raiders, wrong cleats or no. They have been uniformly awful in run D this year.

                      Originally posted by HarveyWallbangers
                      There were moments on his 25th birthday today when Ryan Grant looked like he was running with weights strapped to his ankles — a side effect of the long, studlike cleats running backs coach Edgar Bennett recommended Grant wear on the hardened winter turf at Lambeau Field.

                      Grant swears those cleats will stay in his locker from now on, but neither shoe trouble nor the shoddy Oakland Raiders run defense stopped the first-year pro from putting together another remarkable performance. He ran for a career-high 156 yards on 29 carries (5.4 average) and a touchdown in the Green Bay Packers’ 38-7 rout, increasing his totals to 717 rushing yards in seven games since he replaced DeShawn Wynn as the Packers’ featured back in the second quarter Oct. 29. No one in the NFL has rushed for more yards in that span.
                      Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Partial
                        He certainly looks good enough to get the job done. That's for sure. I don't think he'll ever be able to carry the load like a Peterson can, but as everyone as said there aren't many players who can.

                        I suspect he'll at the very least be #1 or #2 here for several years.
                        It would be nice to get a change of pace mauler back on the order of Christian Okoye with which to bludgeon teams when we're in the 4th quarter with a lead.

                        It would add another year to Favre's career and he could play until he's 53 instead of 52.
                        [QUOTE=George Cumby] ...every draft (Ted) would pick a solid, dependable, smart, athletically limited linebacker...the guy who isn't doing drugs, going to strip bars, knocking around his girlfriend or making any plays of game changing significance.

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                        • #27
                          No Steve Slaton in the RB talk? That's suprising.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by PackerPro42
                            No Steve Slaton in the RB talk? That's suprising.


                            Welcome back PP42!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Scott Campbell
                              Originally posted by PackerPro42
                              No Steve Slaton in the RB talk? That's suprising.


                              Welcome back PP42!
                              Thanks

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                              • #30
                                Nah, we're thinking too much about what we have and can be right now.

                                We'll worry about the draft whenever our season is over.
                                All hail the Ruler of the Meadow!

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