How Voters Think

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You know, that is one thing that I hate about Madison. Tyrone is implying that he is superior because he came from a rich family and went to Madison. That's bullshit. It's a good school and all, but I sure as hell am smarter than my girlfriend who graduated with a 3.9 gpa in biology from there.

It's actually kind of an interesting parallel because it shows how irrelevant brains are and how important is. I could get the same degree from UWM as her and I'd make 10k-30k less per year than her simply because she'll have the UW crest on her diploma and I wouldn't.

Definitely shows the value of hard work imo. You start young and the fruits will pay off later.

Unless you go for engineering, then going to any number of schools would get you more money.

I am certainly not suggesting that i'm superior based on what my parents did or the school i attended.

Why would i engage in that thought process when it would certainly lead to inferioty complex compared to others i know that attended ivies.

As for your girlfriend, how do you know you are smarter. And, even if you are..she is certainly out working you..or at least doing what she should. Nice to denigrate a 3.9.

Lastly, why would you compare two different students with 2 different majors. Pretty much useless.

And, now you contradict yourself by noting the value of the UW degree. So, i guess only engineering isn't affected. LOL

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Partial, are you really so myopic that you've missed Tyrone's point this horridly? I would be sad to think so but you've proven his point quite effectively.

Thank you. For a moment i felt like i was going crazy.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I know a little something about being on the bottom and I can say, if you give those people just enough money to survive for free, they'll never wake up and do it for themselves.

While I don't think that is universally true, I do believe there is some truth there. At some point you are just enabling un-desireable behavior by making it easier to work the system than to work a job.

No argument with that. The classic handout vs. hand up argument.

I love bringing up the dependency argument in regards to Iraq. Why would they ever get better when they know we'll continue to help them.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Cut out the inefficiency and everyone will have more because we'll be producing more.

That's pretty much where my philosophy comes from. Let people keep more of what they make, and they'll work that much harder to earn more. Early retirement becomes less attractive. The tax base grows. And there is more money for taking care of the truly needy, while many of those who choose poverty as a path of least resistance find that working a regular job is easier than taking money from their government.

Competing in life isn't that much different than competing in the NFL. We don't take players from the Packers and Cowboys every year to help out the crappy franchises like the Cardinals. Harlan proposes a world where everybody, and every team goes 8-8. So it's nice and "fair".

Unfortunately, that's been tried in Russia. And the league folded so to speak.

Actually, the league does exactly the opposite. it rewards poor performance by giving better draft picks to the poorer teams. It redistributes wealth to all the teams. It has a salary cap so that the field is level for all. Otherwise the big market teams would outspend everyone.

And, the league is just that..a league. You don't have teams really competing against each other...if you did you wouldn't need the anti trust exemption the NFL receives.

What you are talking about is baseball...and it is in poor shape. The NFL is the most succesful league because of everything you think they don't do.

How you missed this scott, is unfathomable..since i know you are a fairly bright individual

[Tyrone Bigguns]

But why should earning 1 billion pay say 10% or slightly less than 100,000,000 after the 20k deduction when your average family earns 42k and gets taxed on 22k, or 2,200.

Does the billionare use the roads, the schools, or the social programs any more than the average joe? No. So why should he have to pay for them?!?

Because he has the means and without a solid tax base, the government collapses. Do you think a billionaire is gonna miss 100 million more than the average joe will miss his $2,200?

Yes, I do think he'll miss 100,000,000. I think everyone would.

Why is it that those who are successful are always asked to foot the bill for societies shortcomings?

Here's a thought that might blow your mind:

What if all those bums who earn tax free dollars and all those illegal immigrants who earn tax free dollars get taxed via Fair Tax? It may not be a huge amount you get from them but every little bit helps.

Our tax forms are complicated. The CIA cites the literacy rate of American adults at 99% but that is believed to be a percentage or two too high. Figuring there are ~191 million americans, that means there are as many as 5.73 million americans who cannot read. Do you think these people are paying any taxes?!? No, I do not. Do I think a good majority of these people are capable of doing shady, under the table work? Yes, I do.

This might blow your mind too:

Don't you think that the said person being taxed 100,000,000 could do a lot more with that money being provided to private entity instead of going through with the suffocatingly inefficient government? I would rather that money be put to good use like the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation instead of being spent on all the bureaucrats working for the government.

Again with your HUGE BIAS. Because someone is stupid or illiterate they must be doing criminal acts? LOL

BTW, if they are doing under the table work..then some business owner is committing a crime. Why don't you examine the businesses that take advantage of this. We are doing just that in az...and guess who is opposing it..BUSINESS. I can't wait to see the economy tank and prices rise. Then we all will be begging for those "illegals" that are ruining this country.

Perhaps we should examine the really smart people that commit crimes...like the enron dudes, mike milken, tyco, MCI, etc.

Do you actually believe that having more money equates to better morality. You are laughable.

[MJZiggy]

Snip

Crime is already terrible. I don't foresee it having much affect.

You're nuts if you really believe that. Take a look at Michigan for awhile, I believe it's specifically the Detroit area if I recall right. They're having a lot of fun over there...

Maybe you missed it when I said it before, but there are people in the world who have never met you who REALLY HATE you just for your status and all the opportunity you've been given and will be perfectly happy to head to your neighborhood and steal your car because it's easier to lose than the Mercedes' and Beamers. They are also perfectly willing to mug you and take your wallet and your girlfriend's purse. Giuliani always took a lot of credit for the decrease in crime in NYC (now that was some crime) and I sometimes wonder if it had more to do with the dot com bubble than anything he did.

Also, they're right when they speak of the definitions of success being subjective because yours and mine are certainly not the same.

[MJZiggy]

But why should earning 1 billion pay say 10% or slightly less than 100,000,000 after the 20k deduction when your average family earns 42k and gets taxed on 22k, or 2,200.

Does the billionare use the roads, the schools, or the social programs any more than the average joe? No. So why should he have to pay for them?!?

Because he has the means and without a solid tax base, the government collapses. Do you think a billionaire is gonna miss 100 million more than the average joe will miss his $2,200?

Yes, I do think he'll miss 100,000,000. I think everyone would.

Why is it that those who are successful are always asked to foot the bill for societies shortcomings?

Here's a thought that might blow your mind:

What if all those bums who earn tax free dollars and all those illegal immigrants who earn tax free dollars get taxed via Fair Tax? It may not be a huge amount you get from them but every little bit helps.

Our tax forms are complicated. The CIA cites the literacy rate of American adults at 99% but that is believed to be a percentage or two too high. Figuring there are ~191 million americans, that means there are as many as 5.73 million americans who cannot read. Do you think these people are paying any taxes?!? No, I do not. Do I think a good majority of these people are capable of doing shady, under the table work? Yes, I do.

This might blow your mind too:

Don't you think that the said person being taxed 100,000,000 could do a lot more with that money being provided to private entity instead of going through with the suffocatingly inefficient government? I would rather that money be put to good use like the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation instead of being spent on all the bureaucrats working for the government.

Again with your HUGE BIAS. Because someone is stupid or illiterate they must be doing criminal acts? LOL

BTW, if they are doing under the table work..then some business owner is committing a crime. Why don't you examine the businesses that take advantage of this. We are doing just that in az...and guess who is opposing it..BUSINESS. I can't wait to see the economy tank and prices rise. Then we all will be begging for those "illegals" that are ruining this country.

Perhaps we should examine the really smart people that commit crimes...like the enron dudes, mike milken, tyco, MCI, etc.

Do you actually believe that having more money equates to better morality. You are laughable.

Just a sidenote and kinda changing the subject, but we had some nice weather a couple days ago so I went to Home Depot to buy some bags of gravel and sand to do some work I'm doing in my yard and I just want it noted for the record that when I got to my car to load the bags (that possibly weigh more than I do) into my car, it wasn't the store employees or the rich dudes walking back to their luxury cars that gave me a hand. A day laborer who was hanging out at the front of the store followed me to the car and asked me to stop when I started hauling the bags and he did it for me--and took the cart back up to the front of the store. He's got no real hope of great employment in this country. Must be a thug or something, right?

[Partial]

But why should earning 1 billion pay say 10% or slightly less than 100,000,000 after the 20k deduction when your average family earns 42k and gets taxed on 22k, or 2,200.

Does the billionare use the roads, the schools, or the social programs any more than the average joe? No. So why should he have to pay for them?!?

Because he has the means and without a solid tax base, the government collapses. Do you think a billionaire is gonna miss 100 million more than the average joe will miss his $2,200?

Yes, I do think he'll miss 100,000,000. I think everyone would.

Why is it that those who are successful are always asked to foot the bill for societies shortcomings?

Here's a thought that might blow your mind:

What if all those bums who earn tax free dollars and all those illegal immigrants who earn tax free dollars get taxed via Fair Tax? It may not be a huge amount you get from them but every little bit helps.

Our tax forms are complicated. The CIA cites the literacy rate of American adults at 99% but that is believed to be a percentage or two too high. Figuring there are ~191 million americans, that means there are as many as 5.73 million americans who cannot read. Do you think these people are paying any taxes?!? No, I do not. Do I think a good majority of these people are capable of doing shady, under the table work? Yes, I do.

This might blow your mind too:

Don't you think that the said person being taxed 100,000,000 could do a lot more with that money being provided to private entity instead of going through with the suffocatingly inefficient government? I would rather that money be put to good use like the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation instead of being spent on all the bureaucrats working for the government.

Again with your HUGE BIAS. Because someone is stupid or illiterate they must be doing criminal acts? LOL

BTW, if they are doing under the table work..then some business owner is committing a crime. Why don't you examine the businesses that take advantage of this. We are doing just that in az...and guess who is opposing it..BUSINESS. I can't wait to see the economy tank and prices rise. Then we all will be begging for those "illegals" that are ruining this country.

Perhaps we should examine the really smart people that commit crimes...like the enron dudes, mike milken, tyco, MCI, etc.

Do you actually believe that having more money equates to better morality. You are laughable.

Maybe you should get a brain. I said they're not filling tax returns because they cannot read the complex forms.

A good majority of the illegals are being paid under the table as well.

[Partial]

Snip

Crime is already terrible. I don't foresee it having much affect.

You're nuts if you really believe that. Take a look at Michigan for awhile, I believe it's specifically the Detroit area if I recall right. They're having a lot of fun over there...

Maybe you missed it when I said it before, but there are people in the world who have never met you who REALLY HATE you just for your status and all the opportunity you've been given and will be perfectly happy to head to your neighborhood and steal your car because it's easier to lose than the Mercedes' and Beamers. They are also perfectly willing to mug you and take your wallet and your girlfriend's purse. Giuliani always took a lot of credit for the decrease in crime in NYC (now that was some crime) and I sometimes wonder if it had more to do with the dot com bubble than anything he did.

Also, they're right when they speak of the definitions of success being subjective because yours and mine are certainly not the same.

I don't understand what your point is. Detroit is the #1 city in the country for murders. There is plenty of crime there. I am pretty sure Milwaukee is right behind it, though I don't want to open another tab to find out.

As to paragraph 2, that makes them thugs. They would rather steal my car than flip burgers. In my grandfathers day, that was called opportunity.

I will define myself as a sucess when I see that I am happy with my life, and am prosporous and raise a family of well-rounded, smart kids who know the value of hard work and will give everything in life everything they've got. I don't know when success came into the conversation yet again. As ghetto 2 ghetto and experience have shown me, most of these people consider success when they get a little extra money so they can go buy something new, not ever even considering saving it to leave the ghetto.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

But why should earning 1 billion pay say 10% or slightly less than 100,000,000 after the 20k deduction when your average family earns 42k and gets taxed on 22k, or 2,200.

Does the billionare use the roads, the schools, or the social programs any more than the average joe? No. So why should he have to pay for them?!?

Because he has the means and without a solid tax base, the government collapses. Do you think a billionaire is gonna miss 100 million more than the average joe will miss his $2,200?

Yes, I do think he'll miss 100,000,000. I think everyone would.

Why is it that those who are successful are always asked to foot the bill for societies shortcomings?

Here's a thought that might blow your mind:

What if all those bums who earn tax free dollars and all those illegal immigrants who earn tax free dollars get taxed via Fair Tax? It may not be a huge amount you get from them but every little bit helps.

Our tax forms are complicated. The CIA cites the literacy rate of American adults at 99% but that is believed to be a percentage or two too high. Figuring there are ~191 million americans, that means there are as many as 5.73 million americans who cannot read. Do you think these people are paying any taxes?!? No, I do not. Do I think a good majority of these people are capable of doing shady, under the table work? Yes, I do.

This might blow your mind too:

Don't you think that the said person being taxed 100,000,000 could do a lot more with that money being provided to private entity instead of going through with the suffocatingly inefficient government? I would rather that money be put to good use like the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation instead of being spent on all the bureaucrats working for the government.

Again with your HUGE BIAS. Because someone is stupid or illiterate they must be doing criminal acts? LOL

BTW, if they are doing under the table work..then some business owner is committing a crime. Why don't you examine the businesses that take advantage of this. We are doing just that in az...and guess who is opposing it..BUSINESS. I can't wait to see the economy tank and prices rise. Then we all will be begging for those "illegals" that are ruining this country.

Perhaps we should examine the really smart people that commit crimes...like the enron dudes, mike milken, tyco, MCI, etc.

Do you actually believe that having more money equates to better morality. You are laughable.

Just a sidenote and kinda changing the subject, but we had some nice weather a couple days ago so I went to Home Depot to buy some bags of gravel and sand to do some work I'm doing in my yard and I just want it noted for the record that when I got to my car to load the bags (that possibly weigh more than I do) into my car, it wasn't the store employees or the rich dudes walking back to their luxury cars that gave me a hand. A day laborer who was hanging out at the front of the store followed me to the car and asked me to stop when I started hauling the bags and he did it for me--and took the cart back up to the front of the store. He's got no real hope of great employment in this country. Must be a thug or something, right?

Prolly was hoping you'd fall prey to his seductive latin charm (assuming latino), fall for him, let him move in and you'd work as he sat at home drinking cervezas. :P

Your experience mirrors mine with day laborers. When i moved my brother from houston to phx, we went out and found two "illegals" on the street. Those two loaded the truck for a solid 2.5 hours, no breaks, no water, NO NOTHING...and did it like professionals..everything loaded the best possible way. We had offered 20 per..we gave them a 20 buck tip. You'd be hard pressed to find one white citizen who'd do the job, let alone for that pay..and with no breaks.

But, i'm sure they just used the cash to buy rims or waste on 40s.

[MJZiggy]

Maybe you should get a brain. I said they're not filling tax returns because they cannot read the complex forms.

A good majority of the illegals are being paid under the table as well.

If they're not filling out tax forms because they can't read them, they get arrested, unless they make so little money that they would only be owed a refund anyway, in which case what are you complaining about?

How else is an illegal supposed to survive. Remember the whole illegal part? That's what makes their labor so attractive. They do the work without asking for SSI benefits, insurance (not saying their lack of insurance isn't expensive but the guy hiring them gets to share the cost with everyone), paperwork or anything else. He pays the guy in cash and has no added cost. That's on the employer more than the illegal. If they don't want illegals working under the table doing crap jobs you wouldn't touch, then don't hire them.

[Partial]

I am sure those mexicans worked their ass off for that money. But is that fair that you and I are taxed upwards of 25% for me and probably 50% for you to the dollar, and they get off scott free? At the same time, you're paying for health insurance where as they can walk into any facility and get free care. Not only are you paying for yourself to go the doctor then, but these yahoos as well.

Fair Tax will at least force them to pay up quite a bit. And if they aren't citizens then they won't get their rebate checks. And good riddance. Hopefully they'll go back to mexico then.

[Partial]

Maybe you should get a brain. I said they're not filling tax returns because they cannot read the complex forms.

A good majority of the illegals are being paid under the table as well.

If they're not filling out tax forms because they can't read them, they get arrested, unless they make so little money that they would only be owed a refund anyway, in which case what are you complaining about?

How else is an illegal supposed to survive. Remember the whole illegal part? That's what makes their labor so attractive. They do the work without asking for SSI benefits, insurance (not saying their lack of insurance isn't expensive but the guy hiring them gets to share the cost with everyone), paperwork or anything else. He pays the guy in cash and has no added cost. That's on the employer more than the illegal. If they don't want illegals working under the table doing crap jobs you wouldn't touch, then don't hire them.

You think the IRS audits all the poor people and the uneducated who don't file

You're living in a dream world.

As for the illegal part, the only thing an employer should provide them with is a plane ticket and parachute. How unethical is that? Tyrone, leader of the moral police, did the same damn thing. It is both the employers fault for not having any morals, and the illegals fault for being an illegal in the first place.

I back Huckabee 100% in his no amnesty stance.

[MJZiggy]

You think the IRS audits all the poor people and the uneducated who don't file

You're living in a dream world.

As for the illegal part, the only thing an employer should provide them with is a plane ticket and parachute. How unethical is that? Tyrone, leader of the moral police, did the same damn thing. It is both the employers fault for not having any morals, and the illegals fault for being an illegal in the first place.

I back Huckabee 100% in his no amnesty stance.

No, I don't think the IRS audits any of the poor people who don't file, because almost invariably they don't owe anything--they are owed refunds.

But the fear of the IRS is a whole lot different than what the IRS will really do. And the illegals? DAMN them for wanting a better life!! How DARE they! So ship em all back to where they came from!! Now who's picking your fruits and veggies? You gonna do it? I didn't think so.

[MJZiggy]

I'm just a little curious, here, P, when's the last time you did work without getting paid for it? Like, did something for free for someone who wasn't related to you and you weren't getting a grade for it?