Recession coming

[GBRulz]

Leaper is gonna have to get Leaper some.

Wow. That IS refreshing.

GBR is going to start kicking someone's @ss

[oregonpackfan]

Oh no, not another rat starting to talk in third person.

My sentiments exactly, GBR!

Partial, you are going to have major problems in the "Real World" if you consistently refer yourself in the third person.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Oh no, not another rat starting to talk in third person.

My sentiments exactly, GBR!

Partial, you are going to have major problems in the "Real World" if you consistently refer yourself in the third person.

Tyrone doesn't worry about the "real world." Tyrone lives in construct of his mind.

Tyrone doesn't like all of you jumping Ty's train. Only Tyrone speaks in the 3rd person. Tyrone did this as a LITERARY choice (how else can he justify an english undergrad degree?).

BTW, tyrone like many of you is excited about Bush giving him money. Bush has said it will help those of us with housing problems. For 600 bills, i'm looking at an ultra modern cardboard box.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

20% down would require people to practice better money manangement. I am not all about the housing industry being a huge industry where the rich get richer. I am all about everyone learning to live within their means. That to me will have a chain reaction and people will get smarter with their careers and make more money, be better at investing it, etc, and we can get rid of this stupid social security plan and let everyone sink or swim on their own.

Realistically, when taking a look at kids my age, its kind of disgusting. Most of my friends are going to school on their parents dime yet they don't have any money of their own. Hell, some even have credit card debt. That's ridiculous. One of my friends who is good with managing his money has 40 grand in the bank, several acres of land that he bought up north, bought his own car, and is graduating from marquette without any debt on his own dime. I see no reason these kids who's parents pay for everything shouldn't have some big time cash sitting in the bank.

Partial is sitting at a few grand in the bank right now because he has been paying off the few student loans he had from the semesters he dinked around. Other than that, he is poised to do quite well financially this next year as he has about 6 grand in total expenses over the year with a pretty good amount of income. Partial will soon be seeking the advice of others on what is a fairly risk free investment for 5 grand.

Nice strawman, but it has nothing to do with your requirement for 40k.

Housing: Who is talking about the rich getting richer. I guess you'll be happy paying higher taxes and increased crime as unemployment is going to go WAY up when all the subs don't have any work. Not to mention banks not making money on loans. You won't be happy till you kill the housing sector.

BTW, you will notice that you have now changed the argument to kids whose parents pay for school. Great.

What about those whose parents didn't and now are paying off student loans? Have they not demonstrated being resposible by paying off their loans? And, that 5000k of savings...pretty much gone if they have student loans.

And, that is why people have a credit rating. I guess you want to change that as well. No more loans for people with good credit.

Come back and talk with us when you don't live with mommy and daddy and have to pay REAL bills. Otherwise you should STFU and let us wonder if you are an idiot, rather than confirming it.

[Partial]

See the argument of kid graduating a 20k a year college with 40k in the bank. Realistically I am starting thinking that student loans should only be granted if a student works say 25 hours a week or something.

I certainly would not have had any loans if I had a job during the first two years of college during the year instead of just during the summer. It makes you wonder why more people cannot do this. They'd be in far better shape financially and know how to manage money if this occured.

Credit is a good thing to be able to use but people misuse it. It is pretty disgusting that the average american has credit card debt.

I stand by my 20% down. Every wealth accumulation book I have read says this is a rule of thumb to turning your house into a money-making assert versus a liability. Sure, it may take a little longer for people to save for a house, but it seems to be a good idea as they will then have plenty of savings ready in the event of an emergency. By requiring 30% in equity, than they will have plenty of savings as well to cover an emergency.

By doing something like this, it would force people to either A) make better choices and attempt to save quite a bit more money or B) people won't be able to buy houses.

I suppose nothing like this would ever fly, but it would be a good idea for most people to practice.

And Ty, criticizing me for living at home is retarded. That is one of the big reasons that I WILL be able to pay off a house quickly.

As for real bills, I don't think you need to worry about that. I live cheaply. In May when I move out, I have 520 budgeted on expenses (rent, dish, cell, food) and once I'm out of school I will have another 200 monthly in car insurance and health insurance. Add another 5 grand a year in random expenses. According to my calculations, that is approximately 20 grand a year in savings. Add an additional income on top of that while only adding say 300 more a month in expenses gives some phat savings.

[3irty1]

The rates on loans for anything are all competitive, If you had to pay more down on a house, banks would make less interest, and people would be forced to rent longer and thus gain assets slower. Its a lose-lose accept for landlords.

Oh yeah, and there'd be a lot more landlords.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

See the argument of kid graduating a 20k a year college with 40k in the bank. Realistically I am starting thinking that student loans should only be granted if a student works say 25 hours a week or something.

I certainly would not have had any loans if I had a job during the first two years of college during the year instead of just during the summer. It makes you wonder why more people cannot do this. They'd be in far better shape financially and know how to manage money if this occured.

Credit is a good thing to be able to use but people misuse it. It is pretty disgusting that the average american has credit card debt.

I stand by my 20% down. Every wealth accumulation book I have read says this is a rule of thumb to turning your house into a money-making assert versus a liability. Sure, it may take a little longer for people to save for a house, but it seems to be a good idea as they will then have plenty of savings ready in the event of an emergency. By requiring 30% in equity, than they will have plenty of savings as well to cover an emergency.

By doing something like this, it would force people to either A) make better choices and attempt to save quite a bit more money or B) people won't be able to buy houses.

I suppose nothing like this would ever fly, but it would be a good idea for most people to practice.

And Ty, criticizing me for living at home is retarded. That is one of the big reasons that I WILL be able to pay off a house quickly.

As for real bills, I don't think you need to worry about that. I live cheaply. In May when I move out, I have 520 budgeted on expenses (rent, dish, cell, food) and once I'm out of school I will have another 200 monthly in car insurance and health insurance. Add another 5 grand a year in random expenses. According to my calculations, that is approximately 20 grand a year in savings. Add an additional income on top of that while only adding say 300 more a month in expenses gives some phat savings.

You obviously don't understand strawman.

Student loans only to those who work. Sigh. Just when i thought you couldn't be more stupid or a bigger prick, you rise to the occasion.

Credit: Again another strawman. You never answer about those who haven't abused their credit. And, who are you to determine their credit worthiness or if they make a mistake? Suppose i turn it around on you and say i wouldnt' hire anyone who didn't attend the top state school in their state..that would mean you never can work for my company. YOu would complain and say i was young and i've improved.

Asset: dude, i highly doubt you've read half the stuff you say you have..as you are an expert on way to many things for a college student who has schoolwork and a job. BTW, if you know anything about housing..it is not a real good investment.

And, again, i guess people won't be having children before they buy a house as that effects their accumulation rate. Nor will anyone who earns less than 30k.

Criticism: Sorry, but you are wrong. Until you are in the real world you shouldn't be making judgements on others. You are living with your parents in an "unreal" situation..and living with a safety net that others don't have. It shapes your perspective.

520: LOL. You must be living in a piece of shit. congrats..you are a huge success. I guess living with 4 guys makes you a winner.

[MadtownPacker]

Look P, I got some homies that want to flood your nice town with meth. You just gotta help turn everyone into tweakers. Then you can buy your house by next year with this plan.

So what do you say?

[Partial]

You obviously don't understand strawman.

Student loans only to those who work. Sigh. Just when i thought you couldn't be more stupid or a bigger prick, you rise to the occasion.

Why? I don't understand why everyone cannot work during college. I have a challenging major, work close to full time, and still have plenty of time for fun and academic success.

I don't see why everyone in college can't work 25 hours. 16 hours can be done on weekends, and 9 hours can be done during the week. That isn't asking too much, and it will teach students money management, more responbility, etc.

My guess is you didn't work during college because you have rich parents. How can you possibly argue this is not a good idea?!?!?!?

Credit: Again another strawman. You never answer about those who haven't abused their credit. And, who are you to determine their credit worthiness or if they make a mistake? Suppose i turn it around on you and say i wouldnt' hire anyone who didn't attend the top state school in their state..that would mean you never can work for my company. YOu would complain and say i was young and i've improved.

What the hell is with the strawman?? In any case, I'd rather be a strawman, whatever that may be, than a pompous ass. I don't see a correlation between the school metaphor and any discussion about credit. If I'm a lender, I am going to see to it that I get paid back. Therefore, I want someone who save up 30% at least.

Asset: dude, i highly doubt you've read half the stuff you say you have..as you are an expert on way to many things for a college student who has schoolwork and a job. BTW, if you know anything about housing..it is not a real good investment.

Not right now obviously, but housing can be an asset. How many have made millions selling real estate??!? My fathers current house has quadrupled in value in 10 years. I consider than an asset.

And, again, i guess people won't be having children before they buy a house as that effects their accumulation rate. Nor will anyone who earns less than 30k.

Then they can rent. Again, I don't care what others do, but if people want to be idiots and lose money on their house by not having the downpayment, why not rent? It will work out for some, but I am not about throwing money away. Evidently I am just not as big of a baller or as smart as you, though.

Criticism: Sorry, but you are wrong. Until you are in the real world you shouldn't be making judgements on others. You are living with your parents in an "unreal" situation..and living with a safety net that others don't have. It shapes your perspective.

How am I wrong about my own finances, exactly? You're wrong. Clearly our priorities in life are different. You're a single guy with rich parents so you probably have some good money to blow around. I am saving my money so I can have a nice family and a modest home some day. Difference strokes for different folks I guess.

520: LOL. You must be living in a piece of shit. congrats..you are a huge success. I guess living with 4 guys makes you a winner.

You laugh all you want. My guess is your rich parents paid your rent in college since its evident to me you never had to have a job! Personally, I would rather have roomates and live cheaply than live alone and pay quite a bit more. It's a personal preference, so why would you criticize?

The reason I will do that until I am married is because I am save an assload of money and be able to have a modest house paid off by the time I am 30. Did you have your house paid off by 30? To each his own, I suppose, but while it may seem crazy to you I am doing exactly what I want.

My dad did pretty much the same thing. He has told me countless times that he can right me a check for whatever amount I would ever need. He is 57 years old. My goal is to be able to do the same. Perhaps that isn't for everyone, but its something that I would like to be able to do, and I'll do whatever it takes to accomplish.

[Partial]

Look P, I got some homies that want to flood your nice town with meth. You just gotta help turn everyone into tweakers. Then you can buy your house by next year with this plan.

So what do you say?

LOL, lets do it. Than I can be a winner per Ty's standards!!

[Zool]

LOL, lets do it. Than I can be a winner per Ty's standards!!

Way to aim high.

[Partial]

I do shoot for moon.

In any case, who here is looking to invest in real-estate once the market bottoms out?

Here is an interesting take on the housing crisis:

My manager was discussing this with a faculty member at Harvard Business School, and they had an interesting take: it's generational.

Every 20ish years, some portion of the financial sector goes through a meltdown. This is a time period just long enough for the greyhairs from the previous crisis to retire, and for the next generation to be entrenched.

And, that new generation generally gains their experience during the post-crash runup, when risk is rewarded with tremendous bonuses, not concern.

When the risk-adverse old generation retires, and the risk-takers move into the management positions, there's an institutional inertia and culture of shooting for the moon, all the time. The problem is, while that works during high growth times, it is suicidal during a slump... but "It won't happen this time" or "It might happen, but not to *our* sector, we *learned*" then become the mantras.

Setting up another crisis.

It's easy to point the finger and say "Oooooh, greedy bastards!" but y'know, for certain time periods, it frickin *works* to go balls out. (.com bubble anyone?) Everyone applauds you, and you live the high life. (And anyone who says that no part of them wouldn't want to is lying.)

The trick is to recognize when the landscape is changing, and alter your behavior accordingly. When the boom times have lasted for much of the active portion of an industry's career, it's hard to turn the boat.

This crisis will pass, a lot of people will lose fortunes and savings, and then in a couple of years a new boom will start from the pieces of this crash... and the cycle will start over.

See you in 20 years.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Look P, I got some homies that want to flood your nice town with meth. You just gotta help turn everyone into tweakers. Then you can buy your house by next year with this plan.

So what do you say?

I say they are looking to move in on my turf. I RUN this town.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You obviously don't understand strawman.

Student loans only to those who work. Sigh. Just when i thought you couldn't be more stupid or a bigger prick, you rise to the occasion.

Why? I don't understand why everyone cannot work during college. I have a challenging major, work close to full time, and still have plenty of time for fun and academic success.

I don't see why everyone in college can't work 25 hours. 16 hours can be done on weekends, and 9 hours can be done during the week. That isn't asking too much, and it will teach students money management, more responbility, etc.

My guess is you didn't work during college because you have rich parents. How can you possibly argue this is not a good idea?!?!?!?

Credit: Again another strawman. You never answer about those who haven't abused their credit. And, who are you to determine their credit worthiness or if they make a mistake? Suppose i turn it around on you and say i wouldnt' hire anyone who didn't attend the top state school in their state..that would mean you never can work for my company. YOu would complain and say i was young and i've improved.

What the hell is with the strawman?? In any case, I'd rather be a strawman, whatever that may be, than a pompous ass. I don't see a correlation between the school metaphor and any discussion about credit. If I'm a lender, I am going to see to it that I get paid back. Therefore, I want someone who save up 30% at least.

Asset: dude, i highly doubt you've read half the stuff you say you have..as you are an expert on way to many things for a college student who has schoolwork and a job. BTW, if you know anything about housing..it is not a real good investment.

Not right now obviously, but housing can be an asset. How many have made millions selling real estate??!? My fathers current house has quadrupled in value in 10 years. I consider than an asset.

And, again, i guess people won't be having children before they buy a house as that effects their accumulation rate. Nor will anyone who earns less than 30k.

Then they can rent. Again, I don't care what others do, but if people want to be idiots and lose money on their house by not having the downpayment, why not rent? It will work out for some, but I am not about throwing money away. Evidently I am just not as big of a baller or as smart as you, though.

Criticism: Sorry, but you are wrong. Until you are in the real world you shouldn't be making judgements on others. You are living with your parents in an "unreal" situation..and living with a safety net that others don't have. It shapes your perspective.

How am I wrong about my own finances, exactly? You're wrong. Clearly our priorities in life are different. You're a single guy with rich parents so you probably have some good money to blow around. I am saving my money so I can have a nice family and a modest home some day. Difference strokes for different folks I guess.

520: LOL. You must be living in a piece of shit. congrats..you are a huge success. I guess living with 4 guys makes you a winner.

You laugh all you want. My guess is your rich parents paid your rent in college since its evident to me you never had to have a job! Personally, I would rather have roomates and live cheaply than live alone and pay quite a bit more. It's a personal preference, so why would you criticize?

The reason I will do that until I am married is because I am save an assload of money and be able to have a modest house paid off by the time I am 30. Did you have your house paid off by 30? To each his own, I suppose, but while it may seem crazy to you I am doing exactly what I want.

My dad did pretty much the same thing. He has told me countless times that he can right me a check for whatever amount I would ever need. He is 57 years old. My goal is to be able to do the same. Perhaps that isn't for everyone, but its something that I would like to be able to do, and I'll do whatever it takes to accomplish.

My god, you really are an idiot. You dismiss something without even understanding what it is. That just shows your level of intellect.

Work: Again, you miss the point. Plenty of people work and still make mistakes. However, the point is that you work and live at home. Thus, you aren't the norm. Most people can't do this..therefore your life isn't a good example.

BTW, I worked all the way thru school..including working the graveyard shift. You should just stop making assumptions..because they only further reinforce what most here know about you. That you are young, dumb and full of it.

And, living with others is fine, but at some point it just shows that you can't survive on your OWN. And, you will quickly find that most women view that as well. A couple of years of a roommate is fine, but after that...LOSER.

Strawman: Well, you prove it again. One you don't even understand what it is. Two, you are too lazy to find out. Three, you constantly invent them.

The point, is that you make arbitrary rules as you go. As if having saved money is a better indicator of ability to pay. Banks certainly have stayed in business by making loans. You are just a freakin moron.

And, you can't EVER once explain how low wage earners would EVER finance a home.

Asset: As i watch you retreat, i laught. And, your father's house quadrupuled. Unless you can provide me with the county assesor or something to that effect, i'm inclined not to believe you.

But, you don't even understand the basics of investing and how a house falls into the schema. As for investing, a house is not at the top of the list. The housing buble is over. The benefits of home ownership have been vastly oversold. If you buy a place and plan on selling it in 10 years it will bring in money because of inflation, it won't likely have appreciated.

Finally, you expose the fundamental truth. Your dad can help you out. If you can't see how that affects your worldview and the decisions you make then you are truly clueless. Most folks don't have that.

And, my parents have provided me with anything in I would guess in 20 years. That includes even things like airline tickets to visit them. That is why i can say what i say, because i live it. I don't rely on anybody.

You, on the otherhand, are a young kid, who has barely experienced life and has yet to make your mark. Come back when you have actually accomplished something...like LIVE ON YOUR OWN WITHOUT DEPENDING ON OTHERS.

[Partial]

My god, you really are an idiot. You dismiss something without even understanding what it is. That just shows your level of intellect.

I don't have the time nor the inclination to look up some of the BS you say.

Work: Again, you miss the point. Plenty of people work and still make mistakes. However, the point is that you work and live at home. Thus, you aren't the norm. Most people can't do this..therefore your life isn't a good example.

Accept I did the same thing in Platteville when living on my own.. I reiterate, I don't see any reason why someone cannot work 25 hours while attending school and come out in much better shape than they would be otherwise.

BTW, I worked all the way thru school..including working the graveyard shift. You should just stop making assumptions..because they only further reinforce what most here know about you. That you are young, dumb and full of it.

OK. Good.

And, living with others is fine, but at some point it just shows that you can't survive on your OWN. And, you will quickly find that most women view that as well. A couple of years of a roommate is fine, but after that...LOSER.

Except I am sure you lived with others when you were 22. I don't think my girlfriend will think I am a loser living with my best friends until I tie the knot. Why would I waste all that money renting my own place? That is just dumb. I don't waste energy worrying about what other people or women think. I have enough to worry about.

Strawman: Well, you prove it again. One you don't even understand what it is. Two, you are too lazy to find out. Three, you constantly invent them.

OK Ty, I would say that you do the same stuff.

The point, is that you make arbitrary rules as you go. As if having saved money is a better indicator of ability to pay. Banks certainly have stayed in business by making loans. You are just a freakin moron.

Yeah.. I'm not worried about whats good for the banks. Many banks are staying in business right now because of the tax payers. I am talking about whats good for people, or if I was a bank how I would conduct my business.

And, you can't EVER once explain how low wage earners would EVER finance a home.

If they cannot afford to save their money, than they cannot afford the house. duh. I don't get whats so complicated about that? If you can't save up 20%, than you cannot afford the house you're looking at. There are plenty of modest homes for 150k in the suburbs of Milwaukee or Waukesha. If you cannot save up 20-30% of this in a few years simply by being responsible with your spending, than you cannot afford that home and should rent.

Asset: As i watch you retreat, i laught. And, your father's house quadrupuled. Unless you can provide me with the county assesor or something to that effect, i'm inclined not to believe you.

Much of brookfield and new berlin blew up in this time. I doubt its worth that much now, but thats what it was at its peak. He did make many improvements via equity hours, though.

But, you don't even understand the basics of investing and how a house falls into the schema. As for investing, a house is not at the top of the list. The housing buble is over. The benefits of home ownership have been vastly oversold. If you buy a place and plan on selling it in 10 years it will bring in money because of inflation, it won't likely have appreciated.

Ty, it all depends of where you live, how much you put in, how fast you pay it off, etc. Ask Scott Campbell.. I seem to recall he took a hearty risk on a house and it paid off big time.

Finally, you expose the fundamental truth. Your dad can help you out. If you can't see how that affects your worldview and the decisions you make then you are truly clueless. Most folks don't have that.

That's a true statement if the situation became truly horrible, but I would never go that route. If something tragic ever happened to me, just like anyone else, it'd be tough to recover. I don't think my parents ability to help me out is any different than yours at the current stage in your life. If you became a paraplegic and your insurance didn't cover your bills, your parents would probably help you out some. Same here. That's about the extent of a backup plan they provide. I highly doubt its any different then most other people's.

And, my parents have provided me with anything in I would guess in 20 years. That includes even things like airline tickets to visit them. That is why i can say what i say, because i live it. I don't rely on anybody.

I would hope not. I will be the same way as soon as college is done.

You, on the otherhand, are a young kid, who has barely experienced life and has yet to make your mark. Come back when you have actually accomplished something...like LIVE ON YOUR OWN WITHOUT DEPENDING ON OTHERS.

What does that have anything to do with this discussion? I don't see how any of this stuff as any barring. My statement is people don't spend their money wisely and don't know how to save money. By forcing them to, it'd be a good thing for those individuals long term. What exactly is your point?