Recession coming

[Partial]

It depends on the school and the major and how good of a student the person wants to be. It's possible to have a social life, get a 4.0, and work a lot, but you might have to make some sacrifices during the week.

Consequently, most of the engineers and computer scientists who have challenging majors and are more pressed for time typically can get an internship or a co-op for a semester that can knock off just about all their student loans.

IMO, it certainly works against you if you don't have some sort of job in school and don't bring home almost perfect grades. If you're not going to get a job, at least work at a research lab or do something. Getting the co-op is huge, though, in the engineering fields as more often than not if you work hard you'll land a high paying job after college.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Basically, i think we can determine that she is like a lot of women at that age...low self esteem.

Man.

That's right up there with the ugliest shots I've ever taken at Harlan.

No, not ugly. Truthful.

Just like many young men are overly cocky to compensate. Or insecure so they have to control their girlfriend.

I'm just pointing out that you and Zig interjected ragging on loved ones and relationships into this conversation. Not sure if you really wanted to go there.

I see. mea culpa.

However, partial has gone very personal before and just recently mentioned my divorce. Of course, since i hate that bitch with the intnesity of a 1,000 suns...it just rolls off my back (as I silently weep while listeing to Mandy by Manilow...cause she gave and she gave WITHOUT TAKING).

See, partial..that is the point. What you think might sting doesn't. Because I dont' tell everybody on this board my business...you think i'm telling you something important..but, if it was important to me and would cause me pain..i wouldn't mention it.

Like divorce. Which obviously you think would..since you are the child of divorce. And, no matter what they told you..IT WAS YOUR FAULT!

[Harlan Huckleby]

She's better looking than me, sure. She hates that I am fat but she recognizes that I am a great person who is family oriented, career oriented, always willing to do whatever it takes to make her smile, do my best to make her feel comfortable and safe all the time, let her be herself and fit in with me friends, etc. She happens to find me incredibly sweet and refreshingly honest and original.

She is so going to be humping the mailman while you're at work.

This is JoeMailman's territory, his bread and butter. You got your overworked careerist who's convinced his wife loves him for his inherent goodness. But his gentle, cheerful side is seen less and less as he's ground-up in the rat race.
At home sits his pretty, pampered, bored wifey who spends her day on phone complaining about her declining, inadequate mate.

Into the unhappy domicile arrives our amiable, physically-fit friend, JoeMailman. Special delivery, signature please? The slipping bathrobe, care for a cup of coffee? Fucking like minks.

Joe's got a million stories just like this one.

[MJZiggy]

I'm just pointing out that you and Zig interjected ragging on loved ones and relationships into this conversation. Not sure if you really wanted to go there.

Especially from two divorces...[/quote]

For the record, what I said could be taken by her as a compliment if she read it...and maybe we learn something from our mistakes? Funny, though, I don't recall giving relationship advice, I just told him to quit judging people as groups because people are individual. (I'm sure now someone will quote every piece of advice I've ever given anyone over the last two years.)

[SkinBasket]

Consequently, most of the engineers and computer scientists who have challenging majors...

Don't even try to put your lame comp sci degree with the engineers. Comp Sci is worth as much as a Poli Sci degree these days. Everyone and their grandma has one, and it don't mean crap. I know you might be proud of your coursework, but it's not a challenging degree. Especially for dorks.

[SkinBasket]

She's better looking than me, sure. She hates that I am fat but she recognizes that I am a great person who is family oriented, career oriented, always willing to do whatever it takes to make her smile, do my best to make her feel comfortable and safe all the time, let her be herself and fit in with me friends, etc. She happens to find me incredibly sweet and refreshingly honest and original.

She is so going to be humping the mailman while you're at work.

This is JoeMailman's territory, his bread and butter. You got your overworked careerist who's convinced his wife loves him for his inherent goodness. But his gentle, cheerful side is seen less and less as he's ground-up in the rat race.
At home sits his pretty, pampered, bored wifey who spends her day on phone complaining about her declining, inadequate mate.

Into the unhappy domicile arrives our amiable, physically-fit friend, JoeMailman. Special delivery, signature please? The slipping bathrobe, care for a cup of coffee? Fucking like minks.

Joe's got a million stories just like this one.

At least they'll always be BFFs. That's what chubby, sweet, honest guys are for right?


Exhibit A: Partial = Ducky. Joe = Blane.

[Partial]

Consequently, most of the engineers and computer scientists who have challenging majors...

Don't even try to put your lame comp sci degree with the engineers. Comp Sci is worth as much as a Poli Sci degree these days. Everyone and their grandma has one, and it don't mean crap. I know you might be proud of your coursework, but it's not a challenging degree. Especially for dorks.

OK, than why do CS majors average 50k outta college?? Why are developers some of the highest paid jobs??!?

Do you have a CS degree? Until you do, then don't talk. It's right up there with EE, Physics, etc.

What is your degree in?

[SkinBasket]

I've had the displeasure of knowing half a dozen comp sci majors while in school, and even more of them afterward in my job. They were, without exception, the kids who couldn't cut it in engineering. Actually there was one exception. One kid liked anime a lot so he was more focused on learning Japanese than engineering, so he went for a comp sci major instead. I don't know, maybe things are different at UWM and platteville than they are at a real university.

I don't have a comp sci degree. Of course, I could ask what other degree you have to compare yours against, but maybe you'll see how self-defeating that argument is. Probably not, but I thought you had to take logic to get a comp sci degree.

I majored in English and History. Then I became a computer programmer and network engineer for the university. Funny thing is, I didn't even need the lame comp sci degree to get a job that was better than half the comp sci degree guys got and I ended up being involved in the hiring of guys just like you (minus the ego problems) into internships. Makes me wonder about the importance of said degree.

The median starting salary for 2006 computer science graduates was $42,000, compared with $40,800 across all disciplines.

That's the good news. The bad news is that graduate starting salaries are still trending down. Thirty years ago, median new graduate salaries equalled average male weekly earnings, but by 2006 they had fallen to 79.7 percent of the $51,200 average male earnings...

On the other hand, computer scientists do a lot better than art and design ($33,200), social science ($36,000) and accounting ($37,000) graduates.

Well, at least you're still more important than the social science and art class guys. Of course they tend to smell like dirty laundry and pot, but it's something.

Did you want to make up some more numbers?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I majored in English and History. Then I became a computer programmer and network engineer for the university.

How does one major in English and then become an engineer? Sounds like magic.

Wait, I think I know: is it because computers are just a bunch of gadgetry and manuals that anyone with average intelligence can figure out if they try? No, that's not quite true, it takes a knack, like being a good dancer.

I think Madtown works in computers, so you don't even need average intelligence.

I don't think programming is easy, it's very hard work. Computer networking and management is just endlessly learning procedures and terms.

[MJZiggy]

My ex majored in history and ended up an IT director. The computers were a hobby.

[Harlan Huckleby]

My ex majored in history and ended up an IT director. The computers were a hobby.

When was the last time you heard of somebody majoring in history and becoming a metalurgist?

I think computers are endless bullshit. The kids working out at Best Buy are often smarter than the Systems Analysts making 100K salaries. All computer work is about the same compexity, from top to bottom of the heirarchy. ITs just gadgetry that goes on and on. The secretary who figures out everybody's word processing problems might be the smartest person in the company. There are some real geniuses in the field, though, don't get me wrong. But things aren't what they appear to be. So many people are hiding behind buzzwords.

[SkinBasket]

I don't think programming is easy, it's very hard work.

Really, it's only as hard as the language makes it.

[Partial]

I've had the displeasure of knowing half a dozen comp sci majors while in school, and even more of them afterward in my job. They were, without exception, the kids who couldn't cut it in engineering. Actually there was one exception. One kid liked anime a lot so he was more focused on learning Japanese than engineering, so he went for a comp sci major instead. I don't know, maybe things are different at UWM and platteville than they are at a real university.

First of all that is a load of BULL. Software Engineering is pretty much the highest or 2nd highest paid engineering discipline out there. I was in SE at Platteville, but they don't have it at UWM. Instead, they have several paths of CS you can take, some more based on programming, and some based on designing systems, etc.

I think certain facets of engineering like electrical, software, and engineering physics majors are probably more challenging than CS, but certainly not disciplines like civil, mechanical, etc.

I don't think you could even call one harder than the other, they're just different.

I don't have a comp sci degree. Of course, I could ask what other degree you have to compare yours against, but maybe you'll see how self-defeating that argument is. Probably not, but I thought you had to take logic to get a comp sci degree.

So you're talking out of your ass as you have no idea what it takes to get a CS degree. 6-7 semesters of advanced mathematics aren't a cake walk. They're all the purely math classes that any electrical engineer takes, but then instead of taking physics classes we take discrete math classes. Again, not necessarily easier or harder, just different. Personally, I think both are really damn hard.

I majored in English and History

So in other words you're not at all qualified to talk about any sort of engineering or computer science degree. For what its worth, getting an engineering degree doesn't make you an engineer. Passing the professional engineering exam does. And being a CS major, I have a VERY good chance of becoming a professional SE.

Then I became a computer programmer and network engineer for the university

No no, you became a computer programmer and network tech. NOT an engineer.

Funny thing is, I didn't even need the lame comp sci degree to get a job that was better than half the comp sci degree guys got and I ended up being involved in the hiring of guys just like you (minus the ego problems) into internships. Makes me wonder about the importance of said degree.

It depends on what you want to do. I don't think you need a CS degree to be a programmer. My boss for example went to school for business and has an MBA. He is a very good programmer. His right hand man is a professional civil engineer.


According to money magazine, Entry level compuer analysts make 60k. That sounds about right when factoring in bigger cities. In Milwaukee, the average UWM CS grad gets about 45k. I have pretty good grades and work for a good company. I'm expecting 50k. Also, you're crazy if you don't think that IT and CS fields are on the rise. Salaries may be down because there are more people that can do it now, but if you're good you can make a ton of money.

7. Computer IT analyst
Why it's great Seems like the entire world is at the mercy of information technology folks, thanks to the rapid spread of computers and swell of the Internet. And all of these jobs pay well, from desktop support technician to Webmaster to database wonk.

Entry-level analysts make $60,000 and above. Senior database specialists and IT managers command six-figure salaries and decent bonuses. A bachelor's degree is enough to get started.

What's cool Telecommuting and freelance gigs abound. Plus: e-mail snooping!

You're crazy if you think 40k is the average. If I worked 40 hours a week for a year I'd make over 40k as an intern. I don't even have a high paying internship either. I know plenty of people at KC and Epic systems with offers for 60k to be developers straight outta school.

[Partial]

I don't think programming is easy, it's very hard work.

Really, it's only as hard as the language makes it.

I don't think thats true, but I don't think programming is particularly hard either. It's normally very easy to write code to do something once you break everything down and get a good grasp on what the project is supposed to entail. I think project managers in IT have pretty difficult jobs and they is why they are paid very well.

[Partial]

http://www.uwplatt.edu/~rowemi/

Take a look at all the links listed Skin. I think you're in for quite a surprise.

And you're also crazy talking about Platteville as not as a good school. Their engineers are far more likely to get co-ops and thus job offers than Madison and they are the highest paid engineers in the state with MSOE. Once Madison gets an SE department than they can talk.