Jeremiah was a bullfrog, was a good friend of mine

[LL2]

Republican presidential candidates always court the support of people like Haggee, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and others, because they know if they don't their chances of getting elected are slim. They count of the religious vote because it's a big chunk of votes for them.

[BallHawk]

The fact that we are judging any candidate, republican or democrat, on what their religious leaders say is sad. I know this country isn't as secular as it should be, but we're now combing through a reverend's sermons looking for anti-America statements? Give me a break. I don't give a damn what he has to say, his name isn't appearing on the ballot.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The fact that we are judging any candidate, republican or democrat, on what their religious leaders say is sad.

People are entitled to know what a candidate believes, what they are like.
Obama is a member of a church that is HIGHLY politicized, of course this is relevant.
The pastor of the church is not just a peripheral person in Obama's life. He is a mentor in some sense. A friend for 20 years. An educating force that Obama chose for his children. This man is expressing political views from the pulpit, of course those views are relevant. Although Obama is not accountable for every opinion that Wright expresses, the tenor of his remarks reflect on Obama. Obama chose to stay with him.

I know this country isn't as secular as it should be, but we're now combing through a reverend's sermons looking for anti-America statements? Give me a break.

Combing through sermons!!?? This is like the "cherry picking through 20 years" misdirection. There are a trove of remarks in circulation, and they appear to all be from the last year or two. The church distributes DVDs of his sermons. It's not just a handful of isolated gaffs, it's an ideology.

My God, Ballhawk, if you think you can dismiss this as just a political dirty trick, you are out of your mind.

I don't give a damn what he has to say, his name isn't appearing on the ballot.

It's going to matter to some people. And this background makes it impossible to dismiss Michelle Obama's earlier comments. I always thought Michelle meant exactly what she said, not at all surprising. Highly educated blacks often have some bitterness, they know too much about injustices.

Don't let this stuff get you too discouraged. It's some true information about Obama that HAD to come out, sooner or later. It's going to hurt him some, especially in the general election. Most will move past it.

Obama is going to become president, maybe this time, maybe the next election.

[BallHawk]

The fact that we are judging any candidate, republican or democrat, on what their religious leaders say is sad.

People are entitled to know what a candidate believes, what they are like.
Obama is a member of a church that is HIGHLY politicized, of course this is relevant.
The pastor of the church is not just a peripheral person in Obama's life. He is a mentor in some sense. A friend for 20 years. An educating force that Obama chose for his children. This man is expressing political views from the pulpit, of course those views are relevant. Although Obama is not accountable for every opinion that Wright expresses, the tenor of his remarks reflect on Obama. Obama chose to stay with him.

As I stated previously, I don't think what the candidate believes matters, as long as it doesn't affect foreign policy. If we had an Islamic president then I think that is an issue that would be worthy of discussion. The bottomline here is Obama is a member of a church that barely has one million people. A church that has no influence outside of the U.S. His religion would not be a driving force in his decision-making. So then what is the issue? Let me make this clear, I strongly disagree with everything Wright says and I disprove of his relation with Farrakhan. However, that is an issue that has no place in this campaign. This campaign isn't about those two, it is about three other people, Obama, McCain and Clinton.

I know this country isn't as secular as it should be, but we're now combing through a reverend's sermons looking for anti-America statements? Give me a break.

Combing through sermons!!?? This is like the "cherry picking through 20 years" misdirection. There are a trove of remarks in circulation, and they appear to all be from the last year or two. The church distributes DVDs of his sermons. It's not just a handful of isolated gaffs, it's an ideology. My God, Ballhawk, if you think you can dismiss this as just a political dirty trick, you are out of your mind.

Combing wasn't a good word choice. I understand why this happening, I do not approve of it, but this is the way politics is. As stated previously, I disagree with Wright. I have not seen Obama endorse Wright's opinions on Israel or on race issues. And while Obama's senate record is thin, it is without a doubt Pro-Israel. That cannot be denied. So I think it would be better if we let Obama speak for what Obama believes, not what those around him believe.

I don't give a damn what he has to say, his name isn't appearing on the ballot.

It's going to matter to some people. And this background makes it impossible to dismiss Michelle Obama's earlier comments. I always thought Michelle meant exactly what she said, not at all surprising. Highly educated blacks often have some bitterness, they know too much about injustices.

Don't let this stuff get you too discouraged. It's some true information about Obama that HAD to come out, sooner or later. It's going to hurt him some, especially in the general election. Most will move past it.

Obama is going to become president, maybe this time, maybe the next election.

Michelle's comment was blown way out of proportion. The media likes to spin it like Michelle is a narcissistic, anti-American woman who is only proud of her country now because her husband is close to a nomination. Yes, highly educated blacks are bitter and to be honest you can't blame them. They are aware of what has and what is happening. However, to suggest that Michelle Obama was not proud of her country before this is foolish. She grew up in a lower income family and she worked her way into Princeton. How many countries offer you the opportunity to do that? Michelle would make a fantastic First Lady which is a lot more than you can say for Cindy McCain.

And, on your last point, if Obama is not elected President this year he will never become President. His hype is now, his time is now. If he cannot seize the election with such strong African-American, Youth, Independent, and some moderate conservative support, than he will never be President. Enthusiasm lasts for short amounts of time. I'm surprised he still has the hype going now. I honestly thought his support would dwindle between Iowa and Super Tuesday. I'm happy to say I was wrong. Obama is a new face in '08. In 2012 or beyond he will be just another politician. That guy who lost to Bush 2.0. It's do or die this year for Obama.

[Jimx29]

The fact that we are judging any candidate, republican or democrat, on what their religious leaders say is sad.

Maybe it's because we've lived with a theocracy for the past two terms instead of a democracy. If you recall, God told dubya to go to war

[Harlan Huckleby]

if Obama is not elected President this year he will never become President. His hype is now, his time is now.

NO WAY.

If he should lose, he'll return to Senate, or become governor of Illinois. He'll only grow in stature. Any misgivings the public might have about him at this time can be assuaged with time & familiarity.

Ronald Reagan ran for president in 1968, lost. Tried again in 1976, didn't get nomination. In 1980, he was the candidate the Dems prayed the Republicans would nominate because he was unelectable - damn if the fucker didn't win.

You can't predict. Tricky Dicky lost in 1960. Exited politics forever with checkers speech. Won in 68.

Bill Clinton lost governor race. came back and won the next time.

Hell, McCain lost nomination in 2000. Now look at him at age 72.

You never know what will happen.

My only objection to Obama is that I can't tell who he is, I don't know his judgement, to me he is simply an appealing pesonality. He has been a presidential candidate for most of the short time he has been on the national scene.

I will easily vote for him in the future if I am impressed with his political judgement in the next 4 years. Regardless of whether he wins the likes of me over or not, it's hard for me to believe that somebody that politically talented won't make it to the top.

[Iron Mike]

The fact that we are judging any candidate, republican or democrat, on what their religious leaders say is sad.

Maybe it's because we've lived with a theocracy for the past two terms instead of a democracy. If you recall, God told dubya to go to war

Ermmm........we've kind of ALWAYS lived with a theocracy:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams, October 11, 1798

[Harlan Huckleby]

ya, it's true, politicians in the past were more direct in appealing to Christianity. Presidents used to say prayers in their speeches. I have heard the argument that we were founded as a Christian nation, historically true enough, I just question the wisdom of going back there.

The country was also founded in slavery. And woman weren't allowed to vote, let alone run for president. (They got one out of two things right - bring back slavery! Hillary 08!)
I'm glad we are becoming an even more diverse nation, even at the price of putting up with all those damn mexicans.

But seriously folks. A secular state rocks. I like having jews and mormons and budhists and muslims on the USA team. And atheists are cool - very.

[swede]

ya, it's true, politicians in the past were more direct in appealing to Christianity. Presidents used to say prayers in their speeches. I have heard the argument that we were founded as a Christian nation, historically true enough, I just question the wisdom of going back there.

The country was also founded in slavery. And woman weren't allowed to vote, let alone run for president. (They got one out of two things right - bring back slavery! Hillary 08!)
I'm glad we are becoming an even more diverse nation, even at the price of putting up with all those damn mexicans.

But seriously folks. A secular state rocks. I like having jews and mormons and budhists and muslims on the USA team. And atheists are cool - very.

Excellent sermon! You'd be a good United Church of Christ pastor. Seriously. You could go to many UCC churches on Easter Sunday and hear spoken from the pulpit what you just said. The UCC has become the church for ministers who'd like to be identified as Christian but who are uncomfortable with the epistemological necessity of accepting a spiritual submission to the will of God. Instead, this denomination, like the Episcopalian Church, has now pronounced the will of God as entirely inscrutable on moral issues. On political issues, however, God's will is clear; conservative politics are an abomination before the holy throne of God.

It was no surprise to me to find out that Obama's church was UCC!

Mutter some obligatory stuff about Jesus and then get on with the hate speech Brutha!

Preach against sin and people leave your church lookin' for a better deal. Preach against the immorality of the Bush administration and the money rolls in hallelujah!

[Harlan Huckleby]

We were talking about the role of religion in politics, and Swede hijacked the thread to rant about politics in religion.

Or were we talking about politics in religion, and Numb hijacked with the theocracy stuff?

All I know for sure is I'm not inviting Swede to my Unitarian meeting. The Unitarians aren't THAT open-minded.

Swede, you bring your religion crap in here again and I swear I'm gonna RIDE YOU DIRTY!

[Harlan Huckleby]

What's the difference between a priest and acne?
Acne waits until you're 13 before it comes on your face.

[Joemailman]

Trying to get this thread sent to the Garbage Can?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Trying to get this thread sent to the Garbage Can?

I'm afraid freedom of offensiveness is protected under article 4, section 3 of the bylaws. "You can write anything you want, just no Pics that will get Partial or Retail's bosses upset."

Sorry for my insensitivity to Catholics. If it's any consolation, I hate all kinds of people:

A priest and a rabbi are walking down the road and they see a little boy. The priest leans toward the rabbi and whispers "You wanna screw him?"

The rabbi responds, "Out of what?"

[Joemailman]

Obama converts to Judaism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/obama-converts-to-judaism_b_91687.html

[Harlan Huckleby]

Well, it's a step in the right direction.

But Swede & I are withholding support until he goes Lutheran. Olaf Obama.