Moktada al-Sadr, Emperor of Iraq

[Harlan Huckleby]

arguing with Tex is like hunting squirrels in a city park. they're practically tame, no sport in it.

[texaspackerbacker]

Maybe because it was OWNED by the British and French, ya think?

The Seljuk Turks and Ottoman Turks were anything but peaceful; The Barbary pirates actually gave us the word "barbarism"; And the Muslim slave merchants probably weren't all that docile and gentle either.

The Christian slave merchants were docile and gentle? And Tex, earlier when I was referring to the Christian extremists, I was referring to anyone who blew anyone else up in England or Northern Ireland. Don't pretend they didn't exist and don't pretend they were peaceful and don't pretend it wasn't about religion. I have a hard time believing that it's what Jesus wanted them to do...

Where have you heard of these phantoms you call "Christian slave merchants"?

The slaves came from Africa--i think we can agree on that--mainly west Africa--places like Ghana, Ivory Coast, Liberia, etc., as they are now known. The way slavery happened is that African tribes would conquer other African tribes and sell them to MUSLIM wholesalers--slave merchants--who would consign them to sea captains, mainly Dutch, who would transport them to the Americas--actually only about 10-15% to what is now the U.S.--the great majority to the Caribbean islands. So unless you're talking about the Dutch sea captains, there simply weren't any Christian slave merchants.

[Freak Out]

Maybe because it was OWNED by the British and French, ya think?

The Seljuk Turks and Ottoman Turks were anything but peaceful; The Barbary pirates actually gave us the word "barbarism"; And the Muslim slave merchants probably weren't all that docile and gentle either.

The Christian slave merchants were docile and gentle? And Tex, earlier when I was referring to the Christian extremists, I was referring to anyone who blew anyone else up in England or Northern Ireland. Don't pretend they didn't exist and don't pretend they were peaceful and don't pretend it wasn't about religion. I have a hard time believing that it's what Jesus wanted them to do...

Where have you heard of these phantoms you call "Christian slave merchants"?

The slaves came from Africa--i think we can agree on that--mainly west Africa--places like Ghana, Ivory Coast, Liberia, etc., as they are now known. The way slavery happened is that African tribes would conquer other African tribes and sell them to MUSLIM wholesalers--slave merchants--who would consign them to sea captains, mainly Dutch, who would transport them to the Americas--actually only about 10-15% to what is now the U.S.--the great majority to the Caribbean islands. So unless you're talking about the Dutch sea captains, there simply weren't any Christian slave merchants.

...and who would BUY these people? Christian Europeans to work their land holdings in the America's and US citizens to do the same.

[texaspackerbacker]

No argument there, although, as I said, 85-90% were not in what is now the U.S., but the Caribbean.

The point was, though, slave "merchants"--the providers/the enablers/ the ones who began the whole process--the Muslims.

[hoosier]

Maybe because it was OWNED by the British and French, ya think?

The Seljuk Turks and Ottoman Turks were anything but peaceful; The Barbary pirates actually gave us the word "barbarism"; And the Muslim slave merchants probably weren't all that docile and gentle either.

I'm reading through this thinking to myself that, as usual, there goes Tex embellishing half of what he's saying and pulling the other half straight out of his ass. Then I get to this--which is admittedly a pretty innocuous point in his larger argument--and I can't help but bust out laughing. Tex, you've become a parody of yourself. (Hint: the word "barbarism" comes from the Ancient Greeks, who used it to describe anyone who didn't speak Greek--to their ear it sounded like "bar bar bar bar," which isn't so very far from where this little discussion has gotten ("blah blah blah"). Thanks for the laugh.

[MJZiggy]

There's no supply without demand, and no one in America sold slaves? From what I recall, that was a triangle they showed us in history class for the slave trade routes...

[Harlan Huckleby]

most slaves went to South America. The slave trade was HUGE.

[texaspackerbacker]

most slaves went to South America. The slave trade was HUGE.

Exactly, and the Caribbean islands.

Just 10-15% to the U.S,.

Funny, Ziggy, how the exact argument you are making about slaves is totally rejected by liberals when applied to drugs.

[MJZiggy]

Ok, I'll bite. Do only Muslims do drugs? Or is it that Christian terrorists don't? I'm confused. Damn liberals.

[Freak Out]

most slaves went to South America. The slave trade was HUGE.

Exactly, and the Caribbean islands.

Just 10-15% to the U.S,.

Funny, Ziggy, how the exact argument you are making about slaves is totally rejected by liberals when applied to drugs.

Thats correct...but who was buying the slaves? Not the Incas! The Spanish and all the other Christian empires. People can be pretty evil..doesn't matter if they came from Spain, Germany, Japan, America or Turkey.

[texaspackerbacker]

Ok, I'll bite. Do only Muslims do drugs? Or is it that Christian terrorists don't? I'm confused. Damn liberals.

The point, which maybe I didn't explain well enough, is that on a totally different issue, drug use--nothing remotely to do with Muslims here, liberals get all bent out of shape when anybody suggests cracking down (no pun intended) on the users by locking them up for a longer time or whatever. That would be the DEMAND side. Instead, they want to lessen the penalties and vilify the producers--who should be vilified, but not as the ONLY aspect of the solution.

I'm just saying that turning around and giving primary blame to the buyers/users/demand side in the slavery issue is being very inconsistent.

What it is consistent with is the sick BLAME AMERICA FIRST mentality of the left in this country.

And this whole tangent is just a diversion from the OBVIOUS EVIL AND BARBARIC BELIEFS AND PRACTICES INSTITUTIONALIZED RIGHT NOW--IN THE PRESENT BY MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE--including--but certainly not limited to--the only remaining bastion of slave trade--the cusp between Muslims and black Christians in north Africa.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Ok, I'll bite. Do only Muslims do drugs? Or is it that Christian terrorists don't? I'm confused. Damn liberals.

The point, which maybe I didn't explain well enough, is that on a totally different issue, drug use--nothing remotely to do with Muslims here, liberals get all bent out of shape when anybody suggests cracking down (no pun intended) on the users by locking them up for a longer time or whatever. That would be the DEMAND side. Instead, they want to lessen the penalties and vilify the producers--who should be vilified, but not as the ONLY aspect of the solution.

I'm just saying that turning around and giving primary blame to the buyers/users/demand side in the slavery issue is being very inconsistent.

What it is consistent with is the sick BLAME AMERICA FIRST mentality of the left in this country.

And this whole tangent is just a diversion from the OBVIOUS EVIL AND BARBARIC BELIEFS AND PRACTICES INSTITUTIONALIZED RIGHT NOW--IN THE PRESENT BY MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE--including--but certainly not limited to--the only remaining bastion of slave trade--the cusp between Muslims and black Christians in north Africa.

Once again, you completely misrepresent the liberal side.

Liberals don't get bent outta shape over locking people up. They get bent outta shape over stupid things like mandatory minimums.

They get bent outta shape because they realize that drug users and addiction are medical issues..not criminal issues. You'll not find one liberal that is decrying locking up drug lords.

Liberals realize that to end the demand you don't do it by incarceration alone, you need education, medicalization, etc. That will reduce demand.

Not looking people up or telling them to Just Say NO.

[texaspackerbacker]

How about I agree with everything you said, Tyrone--and then say IT EXACTLY PROVES MY POINT about how liberals think on the drug issue. Apply the same thinking to the slave issue, and you have to blame suppliers, not users--as the posters in this thread seem to do--BLAME AMERICA FIRST.

As I said, though, this is all a diversion from the real point, the institutionized evil of the Muslim religion in the PRESENT time period--tyranny, barbarism, genocide, ignorance, sexism, and yes, slavery too.

[Gunakor]

As I said, though, this is all a diversion from the real point, the institutionized evil of the Muslim religion in the PRESENT time period--tyranny, barbarism, genocide, ignorance, sexism, and yes, slavery too.

You say the point now is the institutionalized evil in PRESENT DAY Islam... Does that mean that somebody has rewritten the Koran in the last 20 years, weaving in messages of evil that were not originally there? Before you implied that Islam has always been an institutionalized evil, now you are stressing present day Islam as the institutionalized evil. I personally can't bring myself to believe that the religion itself has changed. It seems more likely that the fanatics that commit these horrid acts of terror and destruction have interpreted the Koran wrongly, or even more likely, that they have simply focused on certain parts of the Koran - disregarding the other parts of the Koran which do not promote thier own agenda. That they do not represent thier religion, rather they represent themselves. How hard is it for you to grasp that concept? I mean, that's far more believable than to say that the entire religion and all of it's followers have subscribed to a brand new belief in such a short period of time, wouldn't you agree?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

How about I agree with everything you said, Tyrone--and then say IT EXACTLY PROVES MY POINT about how liberals think on the drug issue. Apply the same thinking to the slave issue, and you have to blame suppliers, not users--as the posters in this thread seem to do--BLAME AMERICA FIRST.

As I said, though, this is all a diversion from the real point, the institutionized evil of the Muslim religion in the PRESENT time period--tyranny, barbarism, genocide, ignorance, sexism, and yes, slavery too.

It is stultifying how you can miss the point. The point is that there is a DEMAND...how to cure the demand is the issue.

So, Americans/Christians were demanding slaves.