Moktada al-Sadr, Emperor of Iraq

[MJZiggy]

If they wanted to nail Bush on his scandals, they could simply go back to his drinking days. He ain't so squeaky clean, but he gives them plenty of fodder without having to resort to that like they had to with Clinton.

I'm not suggesting that our way of life is superior or inferior as MY view has very little to do with whether they hate us or not, but I'm pretty sure THEY think Islam is superior to Christianity (or they'd have simply adopted our values without struggle), and I'd be pretty willing to bet that if they tried stuffing their ways down your throat it would piss you off.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm not merely suggesting that our way of life is superior, I'm STATING it in no uncertain terms that America, Americans, the American Way of life, Christianity, our Judeo-Christian values and heritage, basically ALL of that is indisputably extremely superior to the trash religion called Islam, its followers, and basically everything about it--the barbarism, the tyranny, the ignorance, the sexism, and all the other evil which is basically institutionalized in that crap excuse for a religion.

It would be interesting to hear if any American who isn't ...... let's just say, totally misguided, could possibly disagree with that and have the courage to state exactly what part of that and why they are in disagreement with.

If in fact, anybody in this forum actually is that wrongheaded, speak up. You have Obama, Hillary, Pelosi, Reid, Murtha, Durban, and a whole lot of other liberal Democrats in your corner.

[Harlan Huckleby]

evil which is basically institutionalized in that crap excuse for a religion.

doesn't sound like coexistance is possible. if we're faced with an evil ideology, containment is unlikely to be sufficient, those people will have to be killed or converted.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think recognizing them for what they are and their religion for what it is would be sufficient.

We tolerate and coexist with a lot of evil and trash. Why should Muslims be any different?

[MJZiggy]

I'm not merely suggesting that our way of life is superior, I'm STATING it in no uncertain terms that America, Americans, the American Way of life, Christianity, our Judeo-Christian values and heritage, basically ALL of that is indisputably extremely superior to the trash religion called Islam, its followers, and basically everything about it--the barbarism, the tyranny, the ignorance, the sexism, and all the other evil which is basically institutionalized in that crap excuse for a religion.

It would be interesting to hear if any American who isn't ...... let's just say, totally misguided, could possibly disagree with that and have the courage to state exactly what part of that and why they are in disagreement with.

If in fact, anybody in this forum actually is that wrongheaded, speak up. You have Obama, Hillary, Pelosi, Reid, Murtha, Durban, and a whole lot of other liberal Democrats in your corner.

It has nothing to do with what you think or STATE. It has to do with what THE PEOPLE in those countries believe and they believe we are ramming ideas down their throats that they don't want. Just the same as if they tried ramming Islam down your throat because THEY feel it's superior to Christianity in every way.

[texaspackerbacker]

Do you or do you not acknowledge the SUPERIORITY of America, Christianity, and our way of life in general over all aspects of the trash Muslim religion and way of life?

If so, then how can you refer to it as "stuffing it down their throat"? Did we "stuff it down the throat" of the Nazis that genocide was wrong? Did we "stuff it down the throat" of the slavery advocates that slavery was wrong?

Your weirdly misguided "moral equivalence" is a little flawed, don't you think?

You care so much about what practitioners of evil think and want; By that standard, we would have just left the Nazis and the slaveholders keep and practice THEIR beliefs--who are we to think OUR way is superior?

I can't wait to hear why you think the situation is somehow different with the evils of Islam now.

[MJZiggy]

You're missing my point. We're talking about people being pissed off with America. That has nothing to do with how we think or see the world. It has to do with their viewpoint. And to the confederates way of thinking, right or wrong, we stuffed it down their throats.

And I don't give a flying fuck what they want, I'm just saying that this is a reason they are pissed off at America which is NOT what we want...

You're just pissed because I HAVEN'T made a judgment. That's not moral relativism. It's just stating a fact from an objective viewpoint.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It doesn't matter a hill of beans if you think our ways are superior to those of Muslims.

Now, when you start talking about Nazis and genocide, well then a call to action seems in order.

All that matters is what you propose we do about our differences.

[texaspackerbacker]

You're missing my point. We're talking about people being pissed off with America. That has nothing to do with how we think or see the world. It has to do with their viewpoint. And to the confederates way of thinking, right or wrong, we stuffed it down their throats.

And I don't give a flying fuck what they want, I'm just saying that this is a reason they are pissed off at America which is NOT what we want...

You're just pissed because I HAVEN'T made a judgment. That's not moral relativism. It's just stating a fact from an objective viewpoint.

And you don't think the Nazis were pissed off at us? Why do you care so much about what the Muslims think when you didn't care about their moral equivalent, the Nazis? Oh yeah, you don't "give a flying fuck" about that. Well, if that is the case, then WHY did YOU bring up in the first place what you somehow perceive as negative--America trying to improve their lives? And before somebody brings it up, hell yeah, why should we care about improving their lives ....... except that our own peace, prosperity, and security benefits from having free, happy, stable, and educated people in foreign countries. Long ago, that kind of compassion actually was the position of liberals--apparently, no more, though. Or is it that you libs don't actually BELIEVE that what we are "stuffing down their throats" is better than the rotten way of life they have now?

[MJZiggy]

What makes you believe I care what they think? What makes you think I don't think we should finish what we started when I clearly told you I did? I fully agree that having free, stable, happy and educated people in foreign countries, But they can be free happy, stable and educated without being Christian. Perhaps they should all convert to Buddhism or Taoism? Those religions have lots of free happy, stable and educated people. And you already know I don't think along party lines.

I merely wanted you to step outside your own thinking and address the concept from a different world view. Not ALL Muslims have it so bad as you suggest. It is not the same as Nazism. Not even close and you know it.

[texaspackerbacker]

So you are convinced that people in Muslim countries are not as bad and do not have as bad conditions as people in Nazi Germany? Think again. It is every bit as bad on both counts, and it is NOT isolated cases, but institutionalized EVIL in Islam, just as with Nazism.

And yes, just as some tumors are benign, not all are cancerous, some bogus religions are benign and not patently evil like Islam. Oh, shame on me, I'm making a value judgment that Christianity and Christian beliefs are true, correct, and superior to all others. But don't worry, this is America, not some crap Muslim country. You have a perfect right to deny our majority religion and express belief in any two-bit crap philosophy, no matter how bogus it is--or no belief at all, for that matter. Isn't America wonderful--and superior to ....... basically anywhere else? Or don't you think so?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I feel like i need a shower after reading Tex's post.

I get dumber every time i read one.

[MJZiggy]

Ummm...I work with some of these people...and the clients they work with lead me to believe that you just may be absolutely and horrifically wrong to categorize them so...I'll never say that there aren't evil Muslims in the world, just like the things we discussed in the conversation that we had about the religious right, but the generalizations you make are unreasonable and based on what you've seen in the news. It's coming to my attention that people really do hear what they want to hear out of the media (except in your case it's to label it as liberal and use that as an excuse to dismiss it.) If all Muslims were inherently evil as you suggest, then how is it possible that the humanitarian and rebuilding efforts are seeing success?

[Gunakor]

So you are convinced that people in Muslim countries are not as bad and do not have as bad conditions as people in Nazi Germany? Think again. It is every bit as bad on both counts, and it is NOT isolated cases, but institutionalized EVIL in Islam, just as with Nazism.

And yes, just as some tumors are benign, not all are cancerous, some bogus religions are benign and not patently evil like Islam. Oh, shame on me, I'm making a value judgment that Christianity and Christian beliefs are true, correct, and superior to all others. But don't worry, this is America, not some crap Muslim country. You have a perfect right to deny our majority religion and express belief in any two-bit crap philosophy, no matter how bogus it is--or no belief at all, for that matter. Isn't America wonderful--and superior to ....... basically anywhere else? Or don't you think so?

What does it matter how we feel about it Tex? We don't govern thier country. We don't live thier lives. We don't get to choose how they act or what they believe in. I'm sure most Muslims feel thier way of life is superior to ours. Realize, Tex, that one religions superiority over another is based purely on perspective. Any Muslim could use the same justification of percieved superiority for coming to America and force feeding Islamic values on Christians as you use in going to Iraq and force feeding Christian values on Muslims. And he'd be just as wrong in doing so as you would be.

Christ man, how much do you truly value freedom? I want to believe you are grateful as an American for the freedoms we have, but then I see you rip on one freedom after another. Freedom of choice is bad. Freedom of religion is bad. Freedom of the (liberal)press is bad. Yet without these freedoms, America would not be so superior to the nations you wish to Americanize.

[texaspackerbacker]

Ummm...I work with some of these people...and the clients they work with lead me to believe that you just may be absolutely and horrifically wrong to categorize them so...I'll never say that there aren't evil Muslims in the world, just like the things we discussed in the conversation that we had about the religious right, but the generalizations you make are unreasonable and based on what you've seen in the news. It's coming to my attention that people really do hear what they want to hear out of the media (except in your case it's to label it as liberal and use that as an excuse to dismiss it.) If all Muslims were inherently evil as you suggest, then how is it possible that the humanitarian and rebuilding efforts are seeing success?

And I didn't say ALL Muslims are bad--I've known a few good ones. The huge majority, however, are true believers in their sick rotten excuse for a religion which promotes hate, barbarism, ignorance, sexism, genocide, and tyranny. Could you possibly deny that? Certainly not rationally.

As for what "liberals" push, I have gone into great detail in several posts on that and never gotten a denial or a defense of it from any of ya'all, which is understandable, because the detestable tenets of liberalism in this country are both undeniable and indefensible. If you think otherwise, feel free to deny or defend them.