Why Obama is a lock to win the election

[bobblehead]

Actually let me address the anwar thing once more...You don't think energy independence and keeping oil dollars here is worth it. Do you realize that the recession we are entering is 90% due to oil prices? Do you realize with drilling technologies now we can use the equivalent of a postage stamps worth of land on a football field and get all the oil out of anwar?

I'm not sure how much damage that drilling does. I don't trust your information that damage is negligible. It would interesting to see a debate between KNOWLEDGABLE people, I would be open minded to reconsidering.

You made a point earlier about American dollars leaving the country to purchase oil. I don't see that as a high priority, lots of countries (japan, china, etc.) purchase natural resources outside their borders. Why rip-up our own dwindling natural enivironment? The deserts of the Middle East seem like an ideal place to finish off this oil phase of history.

If drilling in Anwar could be a SIGNIFICANT part of a long-term solution, then I would say go for it. But it doesn't meet that threshold, not even close. And even as a short-term help on prices I doubt it will help much at all.

We need new nuclear power plants, and lots of um. And electric cars for 80% of our road travel. And investment in other technologies - solar, wind, hydrogen etc.

I'm not going to claim this is my area of expertise, but i can tell you one thing for certain. Katrina buried new orleans, but did not wipe out one single oil platform....that tells me they are pretty safe and clean. I'll try and do a little research and see if I can convince you.

Incidentally, I know you are with me on nuclear, but I want to say few things. If al gore believed half the doomsday crap he spews we would be pumping up nuclear power plants by the hundreds. You know how many people died from coal mining last year? how about nuclear in the last 20 years...case closed in my book.

edit: I didn't read your post thouroughly, my bad. I think the economic damage and job loss due to ever increasing oil is VERY damaging to this country. Anwar isn't significant long term, but we have to make it to the long term without another great depression. the great depression wasn't significant long term either, but tell that to your grandma. The desert would be fine to finish off this phase in history...except when they realize this is the last hurrah and they know they can limit supply and move a ton of capital to their country during that phase.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Actually let me address the anwar thing once more...You don't think energy independence and keeping oil dollars here is worth it. Do you realize that the recession we are entering is 90% due to oil prices? Do you realize with drilling technologies now we can use the equivalent of a postage stamps worth of land on a football field and get all the oil out of anwar?

I'm not sure how much damage that drilling does. I don't trust your information that damage is negligible. It would interesting to see a debate between KNOWLEDGABLE people, I would be open minded to reconsidering.

If it's anything like the drilling in the Badlands, the damage would be negligible. There can be a happy medium, but most go with the knee jerk, emotional reaction.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Dem/lib politicians are what they are--leftist extremists, but as politicians, that's pretty much a known factor. The media, on the other hand, feigns objectivity, and is subtly effective enough to con a helluva lot of people.

Harlan's little line above is just the latest example in this forum.

"Extreme" is always relative to where you are sitting. But there are some objective measures to look at. Who do you think has more supporters and admirerers, Dennis Kusinich or Bob Barr? Dennis Kusinich or Duncan Hunter?

And you call OBama an extremist, but his views fall in with the majority of Americans. For instance, most Americans want a withdrawal from Iraq. Maybe his true views are radical, he has so little public record that it is impossible to say, but that is pure speculation.

You seem to think that being on the far right edge of the Republican Party is "mainstream."

Nothing wrong with Kusinich or Barr. They aren't loons, about half of their views will sell with the majority.

Harlan, this is a CLASSIC example of circular logic. Obama is somehow NOT an extremist, you claim, despite his horribly extremist stated intentions for this country. Why? Because he is up or very near it in the polls. The whole point is the polls--and how the subtle media assholes so effectively con so many--including you--to NOT view Obama and others who want to CHANGE our wonderful way of life as EXTREMIST, and to somehow view Hunter, Tancredo, Thompson, Romney, all those Republicans aced out by combinations of media negativity and media inattention--politicians who just want to keep and preserve the excellence of America that we ALL benefit from--as extremist.

As for drilling in ANWAR, etc., following the exact same logic you just used--that the large majority of Americans are for it, we obviously should be doing it. BTW, the portion of the reserve to be drilled in is a fraction of 1% of the whole area, and it's doubtful there would be any environmental harm even with that. This same bogus leftist crap was argued a generation ago over the pipeline.

[oregonpackfan]

Environmental impacts or not, ANWR is not the "cure-all" to America's oil needs that advocates claim.

If we were to start drilling in ANWR today, it would take 10 years before any of that oil made it to American consumers.

In addition, it is estimated that the oil in ANWR would only be a 1 year supply of America's petroleum needs.

[texaspackerbacker]

I have heard that said--without substantiation--before--the incredible ten year lag thing. Do you have any solid evidence--preferably more than restating by liberal think tanks? Of course, the counter to that is that if stupid wacko leftist environmentalists had not prevented the drilling ten years ago, we would have access to it now.

In addition to ANWAR, there is, of course, massive amounts of obtainable oil in America--the Pacific Coast, the Atlantic Coast, deeper water in the Gulf, the Bakken formation, various other fields throughout the Rockies that were made off limits in the Clinton Administration that supposedly have greater reserves than Saudi Arabia. How could you and other libs possibly NOT put the clear benefit to PEOPLE of using these sources ahead of the potential but highly unlikely harm to the environment?

[digitaldean]

There are multiple nations that are going to drill offshore.

Holland
Great Britain
Norway

are just a few that I can name off the top of my head.

I find it utterly non-sensical to legislate out the building of new refineries and the drilling on our continental shelf or getting oil shale out of the Rocky Mt. range.

I fault a Congress that is so scared by the environmental groups that they allow themselves to be bowled over. I fault a former gov. like Jeb Bush of FLA that refused to allow drilling off shore, but has no problem with China drilling within site of our territorial waters near Cuba.

I do fault the public for not wanting to be informed enough on this topic and the oil companies for not reinvesting in their own infrastructure. From a PR standpoint, they are not shooting themselves in the foot, they are succeeding in living up to the evil empire characture some wish to paint on them.

[Freak Out]

There are multiple nations that are going to drill offshore.

Holland
Great Britain
Norway

are just a few that I can name off the top of my head.

I find it utterly non-sensical to legislate out the building of new refineries and the drilling on our continental shelf or getting oil shale out of the Rocky Mt. range.

I fault a Congress that is so scared by the environmental groups that they allow themselves to be bowled over. I fault a former gov. like Jeb Bush of FLA that refused to allow drilling off shore, but has no problem with China drilling within site of our territorial waters near Cuba.

I do fault the public for not wanting to be informed enough on this topic and the oil companies for not reinvesting in their own infrastructure. From a PR standpoint, they are not shooting themselves in the foot, they are succeeding in living up to the evil empire characture some wish to paint on them.

First of all...China is NOT drilling within site of our territorial waters near Cuba.

The only way our Country can survive this mess is to reduce our consumption of oil. Thats it. We can poke holes in every State of the Union and off every coast and we can never come close to matching our consumption.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

There are multiple nations that are going to drill offshore.

Holland
Great Britain
Norway

are just a few that I can name off the top of my head.

I find it utterly non-sensical to legislate out the building of new refineries and the drilling on our continental shelf or getting oil shale out of the Rocky Mt. range.

I fault a Congress that is so scared by the environmental groups that they allow themselves to be bowled over. I fault a former gov. like Jeb Bush of FLA that refused to allow drilling off shore, but has no problem with China drilling within site of our territorial waters near Cuba.

I do fault the public for not wanting to be informed enough on this topic and the oil companies for not reinvesting in their own infrastructure. From a PR standpoint, they are not shooting themselves in the foot, they are succeeding in living up to the evil empire characture some wish to paint on them.

To constantly blame eco groups for non drilling is wrong.

Jeb didn't succumb because of them. I lived in Florida during that time..and it was strictly (oK there are always other factors) a tourism and small biz thing. You think disney, resorts, hotels, bars, jetski renters, etc..and all those who make their living off of tourism wanted drilling? LOL

You think they weren't scared of how badly the economy would be crippled by an oil spill? Think, man, think. Florida's economy is tourism dominated. It was devasted after 9/11..nobody wants that to happen again.

The other big reason was fishing. Florida has tons of fisherman, oysterman, etc. Take away the fishing from tourists..and the commercial fisherman..and you have another disaster.

Now, i'm not here to argue or debate on the likelihood of a disaster happening, but, your reasons for Jeb's decision is wrong.

[texaspackerbacker]

It's NOT wrong to blame wacko environmentalists for the prohibition of drilling in these areas. They clearly are the main ones pushing obstruction of the drilling. The only question is whether they are the naive good intentioned but misguided environmentalists who really think harm would be done, or whether they are the type of environmentalists who know damn well the drilling would do no or very little harm, but just want to see the lifestyle of Americans cut down a peg or two--as articulated recently by Barak Obama.

For the long term--30, 50, maybe 100 years, we need to switch to something other than oil. That technology will, of course, be with us at reasonable prices long before that time. For the short term, far and away the best way to BENEFIT PEOPLE--the COMPASSION that is so important these days--is to use the oil that is easily available in very large supply--if we just get over the bogus environmentalist crap keeping it from being used.

[LL2]

Not trying to shift gears in this thread, but I came across the quote below from Obama's book. Now, I might be taking it out of context as I have not read the entire book or even the chapter where this quote comes from. I do have a problem that our potential future president says he will side with the Muslims. This is different than saying he will side with the people of Kuwait or Saudi Arabia. So, will he side with the Muslims if Americans do not because of a terrorist attack?

From Barack's book, Audacity of Hope:

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an
ugly direction."

HE DID NOT SAY STAND WITH AMERICANS!!!!!

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Not trying to shift gears in this thread, but I came across the quote below from Obama's book. Now, I might be taking it out of context as I have not read the entire book or even the chapter where this quote comes from. I do have a problem that our potential future president says he will side with the Muslims. This is different than saying he will side with the people of Kuwait or Saudi Arabia. So, will he side with the Muslims if Americans do not because of a terrorist attack?

From Barack's book, Audacity of Hope:

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an
ugly direction."

HE DID NOT SAY STAND WITH AMERICANS!!!!!

You mean you came across this ALLEGED quote..on some right wing web site or blog..and took it for truth.

And, then you or the writer determined that Muslims had to mean non U.S. muslims.

But, instead of posting this GARBAGE..you could have done some research..or actually read his book. But, that would require work. Sigh.

What was actually written:

"Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

Obama doesn't mention Muslims here at all; he's clearly talking about U.S. citizens of Arab and Pakistani descent.

It's clear in reading the text that the words actually represent a question Obama is being asked by his audiences: "they need specific assurances ... that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

You think this distorts Obama's quote and misrepresents who he was talking about, lumping together an entire religion when he was talking to two groups of people in the context of discrimination.

[bobblehead]

There are multiple nations that are going to drill offshore.

Holland
Great Britain
Norway

are just a few that I can name off the top of my head.

I find it utterly non-sensical to legislate out the building of new refineries and the drilling on our continental shelf or getting oil shale out of the Rocky Mt. range.

I fault a Congress that is so scared by the environmental groups that they allow themselves to be bowled over. I fault a former gov. like Jeb Bush of FLA that refused to allow drilling off shore, but has no problem with China drilling within site of our territorial waters near Cuba.

I do fault the public for not wanting to be informed enough on this topic and the oil companies for not reinvesting in their own infrastructure. From a PR standpoint, they are not shooting themselves in the foot, they are succeeding in living up to the evil empire characture some wish to paint on them.

To constantly blame eco groups for non drilling is wrong.

Jeb didn't succumb because of them. I lived in Florida during that time..and it was strictly (oK there are always other factors) a tourism and small biz thing. You think disney, resorts, hotels, bars, jetski renters, etc..and all those who make their living off of tourism wanted drilling? LOL

You think they weren't scared of how badly the economy would be crippled by an oil spill? Think, man, think. Florida's economy is tourism dominated. It was devasted after 9/11..nobody wants that to happen again.

The other big reason was fishing. Florida has tons of fisherman, oysterman, etc. Take away the fishing from tourists..and the commercial fisherman..and you have another disaster.

Now, i'm not here to argue or debate on the likelihood of a disaster happening, but, your reasons for Jeb's decision is wrong.

Call me crazy but guys living off tourism really should want cheap oil....I mean, how do you think tourists tour?

Here is the bottom line, there is a lot of misinformation on all this. No doubt, Jeb didn't want oil near his state, ted kennedy dind't want windmills near his vacation home, and the extreme environmentalists don't want any drilling anywhere.

I disagree with hoosier, drilling and getting more independent is vastly important. Eventually we will demand more than is possible to drill, but other technologies are in the pipeline...a common mistake guys like barack and other dems make is thinking you can legislate technology....Make a 100MPG car...but sir, we are nowhere near that....nevermind that, I am a politician and i demand it...while your at it could you make me able to fly? We are getting close on solar, we are there on nuclear, please please please let the guys who are a lot smarter than any of us make our lives easier. In the meantime lets use the best source we know.

[LL2]

Not trying to shift gears in this thread, but I came across the quote below from Obama's book. Now, I might be taking it out of context as I have not read the entire book or even the chapter where this quote comes from. I do have a problem that our potential future president says he will side with the Muslims. This is different than saying he will side with the people of Kuwait or Saudi Arabia. So, will he side with the Muslims if Americans do not because of a terrorist attack?

From Barack's book, Audacity of Hope:

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an
ugly direction."

HE DID NOT SAY STAND WITH AMERICANS!!!!!

You mean you came across this ALLEGED quote..on some right wing web site or blog..and took it for truth.

And, then you or the writer determined that Muslims had to mean non U.S. muslims.

But, instead of posting this GARBAGE..you could have done some research..or actually read his book. But, that would require work. Sigh.

What was actually written:

"Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

Obama doesn't mention Muslims here at all; he's clearly talking about U.S. citizens of Arab and Pakistani descent.

It's clear in reading the text that the words actually represent a question Obama is being asked by his audiences: "they need specific assurances ... that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."

You think this distorts Obama's quote and misrepresents who he was talking about, lumping together an entire religion when he was talking to two groups of people in the context of discrimination.

Thanks for doing the research for me. I'm at work and didn't have the time.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

There are multiple nations that are going to drill offshore.

Holland
Great Britain
Norway

are just a few that I can name off the top of my head.

I find it utterly non-sensical to legislate out the building of new refineries and the drilling on our continental shelf or getting oil shale out of the Rocky Mt. range.

I fault a Congress that is so scared by the environmental groups that they allow themselves to be bowled over. I fault a former gov. like Jeb Bush of FLA that refused to allow drilling off shore, but has no problem with China drilling within site of our territorial waters near Cuba.

I do fault the public for not wanting to be informed enough on this topic and the oil companies for not reinvesting in their own infrastructure. From a PR standpoint, they are not shooting themselves in the foot, they are succeeding in living up to the evil empire characture some wish to paint on them.

To constantly blame eco groups for non drilling is wrong.

Jeb didn't succumb because of them. I lived in Florida during that time..and it was strictly (oK there are always other factors) a tourism and small biz thing. You think disney, resorts, hotels, bars, jetski renters, etc..and all those who make their living off of tourism wanted drilling? LOL

You think they weren't scared of how badly the economy would be crippled by an oil spill? Think, man, think. Florida's economy is tourism dominated. It was devasted after 9/11..nobody wants that to happen again.

The other big reason was fishing. Florida has tons of fisherman, oysterman, etc. Take away the fishing from tourists..and the commercial fisherman..and you have another disaster.

Now, i'm not here to argue or debate on the likelihood of a disaster happening, but, your reasons for Jeb's decision is wrong.

Call me crazy but guys living off tourism really should want cheap oil....I mean, how do you think tourists tour?

Here is the bottom line, there is a lot of misinformation on all this. No doubt, Jeb didn't want oil near his state, ted kennedy dind't want windmills near his vacation home, and the extreme environmentalists don't want any drilling anywhere.

I disagree with hoosier, drilling and getting more independent is vastly important. Eventually we will demand more than is possible to drill, but other technologies are in the pipeline...a common mistake guys like barack and other dems make is thinking you can legislate technology....Make a 100MPG car...but sir, we are nowhere near that....nevermind that, I am a politician and i demand it...while your at it could you make me able to fly? We are getting close on solar, we are there on nuclear, please please please let the guys who are a lot smarter than any of us make our lives easier. In the meantime lets use the best source we know.

Maybe, maybe not.

Cheap or expensive oil...you can still sun yourself on the beach.

Cheaper oil...with a spill...sorry, you are looking for other places to vacay.

[bobblehead]

and out of the hundreds of oil rigs in america and thousands around the world, how many were there last year?