Biden No Garden Variety Liberal (He's Cream of the Crop)

[Maxie the Taxi]

It's been well publicized that Barack Obama is the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate. Guess what. Joe Biden ranks #3.

Read the details here:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/08/19/remember-when-msm-calls-biden-moderate

From the above article, here's a small sampling of how various interest groups grade Biden or the % of times Biden agrees with their issues:

 NARAL - A [2006]
 Planned Parenthood - A [2006]
 National Right to Life Committee - 0% [2005-06]
 National Taxpayers Union - F [2007]
 Business-Industry Political Action Committee 8% [2007]
 ACLU - 75% [2007]
 NAACP - 100% [2005]
 National Council of La Raza - 100% [2005]
 Human Rights Campaign [gay rights] - 100% [2001-02]
 American Conservative Union - 0% [2007]
 National Education Association [teachers union] - A [2007]
 Environment America - 100% [2008]
 Family Research Council - 0% [2007]
 Children's Defense Fund [a Hillary fave] - 100% [2006]
 Gun Owners of America - F [2007]
 Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence - 95% [1988-2003]
 NRA - F [2002]
 English First - 0% [2007]
 American Immigration Lawyers Association - 100% [2006]
 AFL-CIO - 100% [2007]
 American Bar Association - 100% [2001-02]
 National Journal-Composite Liberal Score - 94.2% [2007] [Note: third most liberal senator, trailing only Whitehouse of RI and #1 . . . Barack Obama]
 NOW - 91% [2005-06]

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Senate is an incredibly centrist group. being relatively liberal in the Senate means nothing. Now, if somebody is on the far end of either spectrum in the House, you might have something to howl about.

[Maxie the Taxi]

The Senate is an incredibly centrist group. being relatively liberal in the Senate means nothing. Now, if somebody is on the far end of either spectrum in the House, you might have something to howl about.

Is this another debate technique of yours known to most of us as a bald-faced lie?

Besides, the special interests listed don't grade on a curve based on whether it's the Senate or the House. The numbers are what they are. There may be more liberals in the House, but few have more liberal credentials than Obama and Biden.

[Harlan Huckleby]

come on, if you know anything about the senate and the house, you know they are completely different in character.

representatives are chosen from districts, which can be highly polarized, especially with redistricting.

senators have to appeal to an entire state, leading to centrists

[mraynrand]

come on, if you know anything about the senate and the house, you know they are completely different in character.

representatives are chosen from districts, which can be highly polarized, especially with redistricting.

senators have to appeal to an entire state, leading to centrists

Boys and girls, this is what naive looks like. Now be careful and don't get too close.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Here is the entire roll call of Senate "Centrists:"
(Shown in ranked order. Most liberal on top; Least liberal on bottom. Numbers after name indicate liberal scores on legislation (perfectly liberal = 100.0): Economic Legislation; Social Legislation; Foreign Policy Legislation; COMPOSITE)

From: http://www.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm

1. Obama, Barack, D-Ill. 94 94 92 95.5
2. Whitehouse, Sheldon, D-R.I. 94 88 94 94.3
3. Biden, Joseph, D-Del. 94 86 98 94.2
4. Sanders, Bernie, I-Vt. 90 88 98 93.7
5. Menendez, Robert, D-N.J. 94 92 85 92.8
6. Lautenberg, Frank, D-N.J. 94 94 79 91.7
7. Leahy, Patrick, D-Vt. 90 88 85 90.2
8. Boxer, Barbara, D-Calif. 88 87 93 89.8
9. Reid, Harry, D-Nev. 72 94 94 89.2
10. Feingold, Russell, D-Wis. 79 94 76 85.5
11. Harkin, Tom, D-Iowa 79 76 94 85.2
12. Murray, Patty, D-Wash. 66 94 85 84.5
13. Durbin, Richard, D-Ill. 79 88 78 83.8
14. Reed, Jack, D-R.I. 94 84 68 83.5
15. Schumer, Charles, D-N.Y. 89 78 79 83
16. Stabenow, Debbie, D-Mich. 72 85 85 82.8
17. Clinton, Hillary Rodham, D-N.Y. 87 77 83 82.8
18. Cantwell, Maria, D-Wash. 63 92 84 80.5
19. Cardin, Ben, D-Md. 79 81 74 80.2
20. Kerry, John, D-Mass. 72 75 85 79.5
21. Klobuchar, Amy, D-Minn. 79 66 79 77.3
22. Kohl, Herb, D-Wis. 72 81 74 77.3
23. Dodd, Christopher, D-Conn. 62 94 71 77
24. Mikulski, Barbara, D-Md. 90 72 65 77
25. Wyden, Ron, D-Ore. 59 81 85 76.8
26. Levin, Carl, D-Mich. 79 79 65 76.5
27. Brown, Sherrod, D-Ohio 71 79 77 76.3
28. Kennedy, Edward, D-Mass. 66 64 94 76.2
29. Akaka, Daniel, D-Hawaii 66 70 79 73.3
30. Bingaman, Jeff, D-N.M. 77 70 68 72.7
31. Inouye, Daniel, D-Hawaii 70 73 70 71.7
32. Casey, Bob, D-Pa. 90 63 57 71.2
33. Feinstein, Dianne, D-Calif. 77 61 73 71
34. Nelson, Bill, D-Fla. 79 73 52 69.8
35. Rockefeller, Jay, D-W.Va. 65 66 72 68.7
36. Byrd, Robert, D-W.Va. 51 52 85 64.3
37. Lincoln, Blanche, D-Ark. 66 62 56 62.3
38. Bayh, Evan, D-Ind. 56 66 59 62.2
39. Tester, Jon, D-Mont. 60 57 65 61.7
40. Carper, Thomas, D-Del. 58 60 59 60.2
41. Webb, Jim, D-Va. 53 66 57 60.2
42. Salazar, Ken, D-Colo. 56 65 54 59.2
43. Dorgan, Byron, D-N.D. 60 51 64 59
44. Lieberman, Joe, ID-Conn. 72 59 38 57.5
45. McCaskill, Claire, D-Mo. 51 58 59 57.3
46. Baucus, Max, D-Mont. 53 55 59 57.3
47. Conrad, Kent, D-N.D. 53 55 59 57.3
48. Pryor, Mark, D-Ark. 63 53 47 55
49. Landrieu, Mary, D-La. 49 54 54 53.2
50. Snowe, Olympia, R-Maine 46 49 46 47.8
51. Collins, Susan, R-Maine 48 47 45 47.2
52. Smith, Gordon, R-Ore. 44 43 53 47.2
53. Nelson, Ben, D-Neb. 46 44 48 46.7
54. Specter, Arlen, R-Pa. 45 48 42 45.5
55. Coleman, Norm, R-Minn. 43 39 44 42.5
56. Lugar, Richard, R-Ind. 39 46 39 41.8
57. Voinovich, George, R-Ohio 41 42 41 41.8
58. Warner, John, R-Va. 37 38 40 38.8
59. Hagel, Chuck, R-Neb. 18 45 51 38.7
60. Stevens, Ted, R-Alaska 38 37 30 36
61. Murkowski, Lisa, R-Alaska 40 41 21 35.3
62. Sununu, John, R-N.H. 32 25 43 34
63. Hatch, Orrin, R-Utah 34 30 34 33.5
64. Martinez, Mel, R-Fla. 28 34 30 31.8
65. Gregg, Judd, R-N.H. 26 31 30 30.2
66. Domenici, Pete, R-N.M. 34 29 21 29.5
67. Bennett, Robert, R-Utah 16 33 27 26
68. Alexander, Lamar, R-Tenn. 30 16 28 25.5
69. Hutchison, Kay Bailey, R-Texas 28 26 16 24.8
70. Corker, Bob, R-Tenn. 32 0 34 24.2
71. Brownback, Sam, R-Kan. 0 32 36 23.5
72. Cochran, Thad, R-Miss. 21 24 21 23.3
73. Grassley, Charles, R-Iowa 42 17 7 22.8
74. Graham, Lindsey, R-S.C. 18 35 13 22.7
75. Shelby, Richard, R-Ala. 24 22 16 22
76. Dole, Elizabeth, R-N.C. 22 0 37 21.5
77. Craig, Larry, R-Idaho 23 36 0 21.2
78. Roberts, Pat, R-Kan. 25 14 16 19.7
79. Bond, Christopher (Kit), R-Mo. 30 17 0 17.7
80. Kyl, Jon, R-Ariz. 0 26 21 17.5
81. Lott, Trent, R-Miss. † 15 28 8 17.5
82. Thune, John, R-S.D. 36 0 9 17.3
83. Chambliss, Saxby, R-Ga. 14 9 21 16.5
84. Crapo, Mike, R-Idaho 12 22 9 15.5
85. Vitter, David, R-La. 20 9 14 15.5
86. Ensign, John, R-Nev. 11 9 21 15.5
87. Coburn, Tom, R-Okla. 13 20 9 15
88. Sessions, Jeff, R-Ala. 26 0 9 14.2
89. McConnell, Mitch, R-Ky. 3 0 30 13.5
90. Inhofe, James, R-Okla. 6 0 28 13.3
91. Isakson, Johnny, R-Ga. 7 9 16 12.5
92. Bunning, Jim, R-Ky. 5 21 0 10.2
93. Enzi, Michael, R-Wyo. 7 0 14 9.2
94. Cornyn, John, R-Texas 9 13 0 8.8
95. Burr, Richard, R-N.C. 0 17 0 7.8
96. Allard, Wayne, R-Colo. 3 14 0 7.5
97. DeMint, Jim, R-S.C. 10 0 0 6.2

UNRATED*
McCain, John, R-Ariz. * 40 * *
Johnson, Tim, D-S.D. * * 49 *
Barrasso, John, R-Wyo. * 0 16 *
Thomas, Craig, R-Wyo. † * * * *

[*Three senators do not have scores for 2007 because they missed more than half of the rated votes in an issue area: John McCain, R-Ariz., who was running for president; Tim Johnson, D-S.D., who was recuperating from a brain hemorrhage and returned to work on September 5, 2007; Craig Thomas, R-Wyo., who died on June 4, 2007; and John Barrasso, R-Wyo., who was appointed to succeed Thomas on June 22, 2007. ]

Note: The Senate is so liberal that Ted Kennedy can do no better than 28th place!

[retailguy]

They both out rank BERNIE SANDERS? Bernie Sanders? Good Lord.

[Harlan Huckleby]

perfectly liberal = 100.0

now how dumb is that. "perfectly liberal" might mean "perfectly centrist". If you poll Americans on how THEY would vote on individual bills, it might be that a majority support 100% of positions described as "liberal".

And the truth is not so far from this.

I think these ratings by advocasy groups say very little about whether a Senator is extreme. And I said before, the extremists live in the House. You have to look at how they defend their positions to learn how "extreme" they are. The ratings do tell you whether the person is a party loyalist, and I suppose that is relevant, especially with a pol like Obama who claims to be ready to cross party lines.

[bobblehead]

This is a good list for one thing...if you have a republican senator ranking 50-68 we should vote him/her out. JMO.

Harlan you are high if you believe america as a whole supports liberal agenda. America wants to drill now, america wants lower taxes, america is largely anti ILLEGAL immigrant, america in general wants gov't out of their lives (unless you are one of the people living off the public dole).

[retailguy]

perfectly liberal = 100.0

now how dumb is that. "perfectly liberal" might mean "perfectly centrist". If you poll Americans on how THEY would vote on individual bills, it might be that a majority support 100% of positions described as "liberal".

And the truth is not so far from this.

I think these ratings by advocasy groups say very little about whether a Senator is extreme. And I said before, the extremists live in the House. You have to look at how they defend their positions to learn how "extreme" they are. The ratings do tell you whether the person is a party loyalist, and I suppose that is relevant, especially with a pol like Obama who claims to be ready to cross party lines.

You've been living in Madison far too long. It has permanently warped your brain. Give up political thoughts and just stare into your toilet.

[Harlan Huckleby]

This is a good list for one thing...if you have a republican senator ranking 50-68 we should vote him/her out. JMO.

Harlan you are high if you believe america as a whole supports liberal agenda. America wants to drill now, america wants lower taxes, america is largely anti ILLEGAL immigrant, america in general wants gov't out of their lives (unless you are one of the people living off the public dole).

You missed the point. If you believe voting solidly in the Senate with the Dem Party is an indication of extremism, then you are going to believe it, but that is just preaching to the choir. I'll leave it at that. And if you don't understand the centrist nature of the Senate, you don't follow politics.

But as to whether America supports liberal issues, obviously the country is divided, and it swings back and forth. But there can be no argument that the country is backing the platform of the democratic party this fall.

"america wants to drill now", ya, they want to drill as long as its not near their state. Immigrant policy - Americans were SOLIDLY behind the immigration reform bill that republicans managed to torpedo. "lower taxes" - the reality of the Bush tax cuts is not popular.

[bobblehead]

This is a good list for one thing...if you have a republican senator ranking 50-68 we should vote him/her out. JMO.

Harlan you are high if you believe america as a whole supports liberal agenda. America wants to drill now, america wants lower taxes, america is largely anti ILLEGAL immigrant, america in general wants gov't out of their lives (unless you are one of the people living off the public dole).

You missed the point. If you believe voting solidly in the Senate with the Dem Party is an indication of extremism, then you are going to believe it, but that is just preaching to the choir. I'll leave it at that. And if you don't understand the centrist nature of the Senate, you don't follow politics.

But as to whether America supports liberal issues, obviously the country is divided, and it swings back and forth. But there can be no argument that the country is backing the platform of the democratic party this fall.

"america wants to drill now", ya, they want to drill as long as its not near their state. Immigrant policy - Americans were SOLIDLY behind the immigration reform bill that republicans managed to torpedo. "lower taxes" - the reality of the Bush tax cuts is not popular.

Dude, really....I think that immigration reform bill got quashed due to 7 million phone callls, faxes and letters to congress once word got out what they were trying to do. Americans were SOLIDLY in the dark is more like it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Dude, really....I think that immigration reform bill got quashed due to 7 million phone callls, faxes and letters to congress once word got out what they were trying to do. Americans were SOLIDLY in the dark is more like it.

Bullshit. The majority of Americans wanted that compromise bill that included a path to citizenship for immigrants in this country. The support in polls was in the 60's. Most people accept that the immigrants who have come to this country in the past 20 years are not going anywhere.

A vocal and passionate minority of people who blame illegal immigrants, think they can be swept aside, killed the bill. They worked mostly by pressuring Republicans.

[bobblehead]

Dude, really....I think that immigration reform bill got quashed due to 7 million phone callls, faxes and letters to congress once word got out what they were trying to do. Americans were SOLIDLY in the dark is more like it.

Bullshit. The majority of Americans wanted that compromise bill that included a path to citizenship for immigrants in this country. The support in polls was in the 60's. Most people accept that the immigrants who have come to this country in the past 20 years are not going anywhere.

A vocal and passionate minority of people who blame illegal immigrants, think they can be swept aside, killed the bill. They worked mostly by pressuring Republicans.

I think you are reading too many madison papers my friend, I never saw any poll where the public wasn't 70% against it.

The ONLY reason I am against them staying is because I know too many good hard working asians with family members on a 9 year wait list because they are abiding by the law.

America is so against illegals right now (except the mexican base) that hillary herself had to come out and say she was against illegals having drivers liscences.

[bobblehead]

Poll Finds 77% Oppose Licenses For Illegals
Posted by: The Watchdog in Illegal Drivers Licenses
Washington Times

Voters oppose driver’s licenses for illegal aliens by a nearly five-to-one margin, a new Fox 5/Washington Times/Rasmussen Reports poll finds.

As immigration politics explode into the presidential race, polls show Americans are taking a hard line on benefits for illegal aliens, including opposing driver’s licenses and such taxpayer-funded benefits as scholarships at state colleges for illegal-alien students.

The new poll found 77 percent of the adults surveyed opposed making driver’s licenses available to illegal aliens, while just 16 percent supported the idea.

Licenses fared poorly across party lines, including near-blanket opposition among self-identified Republicans, at 88 percent. Among independents and Democrats, it was still overwhelmingly unpopular, drawing 75 percent and 68 percent opposition, respectively.