“I think that the surge has succeeded.........

[mraynrand]

It's always startling to me to see someone try to wrap themselves in knots to justify one intervention as being for democracy and justice, but somehow, deposing a brutal dictator and his sadistic family, establishing the most advanced democracy in the Mideast outside Israel, with religious pluralism, in the interest of reducing terrorism, while securing one of the largest oilfields on the planet, is somehow not even in the same category. Do you even read what you write? Do you even think about it?

One could ask the same of you: You speak of people "wrapping themselves in knots" to justify A and not B, and this is exactly what the necons do with Iraq. How does "deposing a brutal dictator" possibly factor in when, in other situations, the US has gone far out of its way to help brutal dictators assume power? Deposing a brutal dictator is a line that you throw out because it suits your purposes, whereas the true motives lie elsewhere. But if those real motives are so noble, why the constant need to find moral narratives (deposing the evil one)?

I won't even touch the "establishing the most advanced democracy" line. That remains to be seen, but judging from Cheney-Bush's performace to date I would say that, if it happens, it's gonna happen despite them and not because of them. Same for reducing terrorism: Iraq did nothing of the sort, it greatly increased the number of terrorist acts and has proved a breeding ground for the next generation of terrorists. That wouldn't have been part of the strategy, now, would it?

My position isn't inconsistent. Supporting certain dictators was done, ostensibly in the U.S.'s interest. And as far as the noble goal of deposing Saddam, it was stated: - to get rid of state sponsors of terrorism (is that not a noble goal?). Killing a whole ton of terrorists that flooded into Iraq to fight in Osama's most critical battle, seems to have reduced the number of terrorists dramatically. That's a good thing. Where exactly are these next generation of breeded terrorists that you speak of? as far as I can tell, they are mostly buried in Iraqi soil. As far as the democracy in Iraq - name a better one in the Mideast other than Israel right now. I'll wait while you find it. And despite your protestations, Iraq is on the path to peace and democracy because of Bush and Cheney -they had to overthrow Saddam to change the government right? And because of Bush changing policy and putting Petraeus in charge, not withdrawing when it was politically expedient, etc. Iraq is on the road to democracy, rather than onthe road to sponsoring terrorism. Mission Accomplished.

[Freak Out]

The Iraqi government is working more effectively and has a higher approval rating than the Democrat controlled U.S. Congress.

Sure thing Rand. This is the funniest thing I've heard all day.

[SkinBasket]

And anyway, we invaded because of lack of compliance with UN Resolutions.

No one ever likes to talk about that.

It is kind of like they'll think we'll forget if they just keep talking about WMD's. Notice how they've all forgotten that he violated over 20 UN resolutions? Bush was wrong, that's the REALLY important thing. I still want to know what was in those trucks. They never have told us. If they did, then I missed it.

Those trucks never existed. Dick Cheney drew those diagrams and photo shopped those sat photos when taking breaks from working on his master plan to destroy the levees in NO by creating a massive hurricane and driving barges into the walls.

[mraynrand]

The Iraqi government is working more effectively and has a higher approval rating than the Democrat controlled U.S. Congress.

Sure thing Rand. This is the funniest thing I've heard all day.

I laugh about it sometimes too. It helps ease the pain. But factually, it is true. The Iraqis have higher confidence in their government at present and their government has accomplished far more than the Reid and Pelosi Congress. it's not even close.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Iraqi government is working more effectively and has a higher approval rating than the Democrat controlled U.S. Congress.

Sure thing Rand. This is the funniest thing I've heard all day.

It's actually true. Congress has somewhere between a 16-20% approval rating, so it wouldn't be hard to beat.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/congressional_job_approval-903.html

[mraynrand]

Those trucks never existed. Dick Cheney drew those diagrams and photo shopped those sat photos when taking breaks from working on his master plan to destroy the levees in NO by creating a massive hurricane and driving barges into the walls.

It was I who allowed the trucks to pass into Syria! It was I who caused Katrina to turn north towards New Orleans. Oh, I'm afraid the levees will be quite un-operational when the floods arrive. HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!

[mraynrand]

The Iraqi government is working more effectively and has a higher approval rating than the Democrat controlled U.S. Congress.

Sure thing Rand. This is the funniest thing I've heard all day.

It's actually true. Congress has somewhere between a 16-20% approval rating, so it wouldn't be hard to beat.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...roval-903.html

It actually dipped to 9% at one point.