religion & politics

[mraynrand]

msaynrand, I don't see any contradiction in those two quotes from Obama.

I wasn't suggesting anything. I was posting the relevant quotes that Tex was referring to - I may comment at some point, but I just wanted to post the actual text for reference.

[HowardRoark]

Ty, get on this will you. Tell him it's laughable to have universal values.

we've got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community."

[texaspackerbacker]

First of all, America's primary enemies in the past half century or more have made hatred of OUR religion

Not true. People like Osama Bin Laden have become our enemies because we meddled around in their country's affairs, not because our country is Christian. Quite frankly, he couldn't give a damn who we worship. When we came into the middle east and started screwing around with things THAT is when trouble started, not when we became believers in Jesus Christ.

First of all, thank you, Aynrand, for doing the digging. I knew they existed, but tend to be a little lazy about searching for stuff like that.

Ballhawk, you are WRONG. Worse, you are giving credence to the rhetoric our enemies use to justify their indefensible acts. While it is true that radical Muslims have at the root of their evil movement the desire to turn back the clock and reverse the effort to bring western values and civilized behavior to their part of the world, it is indeed a matter of religion, as the values and civilized behavior are part and parcel the product of Judeo-Christian teachings--while the barbarism and depravity are pure unrefined Islamic teachings--hence the term Muslim "fundamentalism".

If that's too much for you to comprehend, Ballhawk, you just synthesize it down to: we're right and good; they're bad and wrong. And therein lies the difference between pro-American and conservative people and anti-American liberal people. WE acknowledge that simple truth; THEY do not. Go ahead and prove it, Ballhawk and anybody else from the left.

[HowardRoark]

First of all, America's primary enemies in the past half century or more have made hatred of OUR religion

Not true. People like Osama Bin Laden have become our enemies because we meddled around in their country's affairs, not because our country is Christian. Quite frankly, he couldn't give a damn who we worship. When we came into the middle east and started screwing around with things THAT is when trouble started, not when we became believers in Jesus Christ.

First of all, thank you, Aynrand, for doing the digging. I knew they existed, but tend to be a little lazy about searching for stuff like that.

Ballhawk, you are WRONG. Worse, you are giving credence to the rhetoric our enemies use to justify their indefensible acts. While it is true that radical Muslims have at the root of their evil movement the desire to turn back the clock and reverse the effort to bring western values and civilized behavior to their part of the world, it is indeed a matter of religion, as the values and civilized behavior are part and parcel the product of Judeo-Christian teachings--while the barbarism and depravity are pure unrefined Islamic teachings--hence the term Muslim "fundamentalism".

If that's too much for you to comprehend, Ballhawk, you just synthesize it down to: we're right and good; they're bad and wrong. And therein lies the difference between pro-American and conservative people and anti-American liberal people. WE acknowledge that simple truth; THEY do not. Go ahead and prove it, Ballhawk and anybody else from the left.

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

[texaspackerbacker]

First of all, America's primary enemies in the past half century or more have made hatred of OUR religion

Not true. People like Osama Bin Laden have become our enemies because we meddled around in their country's affairs, not because our country is Christian. Quite frankly, he couldn't give a damn who we worship. When we came into the middle east and started screwing around with things THAT is when trouble started, not when we became believers in Jesus Christ.

First of all, thank you, Aynrand, for doing the digging. I knew they existed, but tend to be a little lazy about searching for stuff like that.

Ballhawk, you are WRONG. Worse, you are giving credence to the rhetoric our enemies use to justify their indefensible acts. While it is true that radical Muslims have at the root of their evil movement the desire to turn back the clock and reverse the effort to bring western values and civilized behavior to their part of the world, it is indeed a matter of religion, as the values and civilized behavior are part and parcel the product of Judeo-Christian teachings--while the barbarism and depravity are pure unrefined Islamic teachings--hence the term Muslim "fundamentalism".

If that's too much for you to comprehend, Ballhawk, you just synthesize it down to: we're right and good; they're bad and wrong. And therein lies the difference between pro-American and conservative people and anti-American liberal people. WE acknowledge that simple truth; THEY do not. Go ahead and prove it, Ballhawk and anybody else from the left.

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Why would you--presumably a good pro-American and Christian person, even ASK such a question? "By their fruits you shall know them" Take a quick look around the world and examine the fruits of Judeo-Christian beliefs, values, and heritage. Then check out the fruits of Islam, atheism, or any other two bit crap religion. Is that enough to answer your question? I certainly hope so. If not, you're pretty far gone.

[BallHawk]

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Because America follows them and thus are the one and only teachings that can be followed without be denounced as barbaric and uncivilized.

[HowardRoark]

First of all, America's primary enemies in the past half century or more have made hatred of OUR religion

Not true. People like Osama Bin Laden have become our enemies because we meddled around in their country's affairs, not because our country is Christian. Quite frankly, he couldn't give a damn who we worship. When we came into the middle east and started screwing around with things THAT is when trouble started, not when we became believers in Jesus Christ.

First of all, thank you, Aynrand, for doing the digging. I knew they existed, but tend to be a little lazy about searching for stuff like that.

Ballhawk, you are WRONG. Worse, you are giving credence to the rhetoric our enemies use to justify their indefensible acts. While it is true that radical Muslims have at the root of their evil movement the desire to turn back the clock and reverse the effort to bring western values and civilized behavior to their part of the world, it is indeed a matter of religion, as the values and civilized behavior are part and parcel the product of Judeo-Christian teachings--while the barbarism and depravity are pure unrefined Islamic teachings--hence the term Muslim "fundamentalism".

If that's too much for you to comprehend, Ballhawk, you just synthesize it down to: we're right and good; they're bad and wrong. And therein lies the difference between pro-American and conservative people and anti-American liberal people. WE acknowledge that simple truth; THEY do not. Go ahead and prove it, Ballhawk and anybody else from the left.

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Why would you--presumably a good pro-American and Christian person, even ASK such a question? "By their fruits you shall know them" Take a quick look around the world and examine the fruits of Judeo-Christian beliefs, values, and heritage. Then check out the fruits of Islam, atheism, or any other two bit crap religion. Is that enough to answer your question?

Yes, thank you. By George, I think you've got it.

[texaspackerbacker]

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Because America follows them and thus are the one and only teachings that can be followed without be denounced as barbaric and uncivilized.

And YOU actually claim to NOT see it that way? Are you blind or just stupid. Look at the rest of the world compared to western civilization .... look at America compared to the rest of western civilization.

Feel free to think otherwise, though. It will AGAIN cost the elitist assholes of your side the election.

[BallHawk]

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Because America follows them and thus are the one and only teachings that can be followed without be denounced as barbaric and uncivilized.

And YOU actually claim to NOT see it that way? Are you blind or just stupid. Look at the rest of the world compared to western civilization .... look at America compared to the rest of western civilization.

Feel free to think otherwise, though. It will AGAIN cost the elitist assholes of your side the election.

I feel that Islam at its roots is a solid, clean religion that does not deserve any more scrutiny than Christianity or Judaism. Islamic Fundamentalism has tarnished its name and turned Islam into the world's enemy.

Look at Turkey, Tex. Turkey's economy is on the up. The country is making strides in infrastructure and human rights. They are becoming one of the big players in the world. But why? Because they are SECULAR. Do not associate all of Islam as one big theocracy that prides itself on being the destroyers of Christianity. Places like Afghanistan are in shambles because Islam severely diminishes what people in the country can do. However, not all countries are Islamic Republics that wish death upon Christians.

[texaspackerbacker]

Why are Judeo-Christian teachings right and good?

Because America follows them and thus are the one and only teachings that can be followed without be denounced as barbaric and uncivilized.

And YOU actually claim to NOT see it that way? Are you blind or just stupid. Look at the rest of the world compared to western civilization .... look at America compared to the rest of western civilization.

Feel free to think otherwise, though. It will AGAIN cost the elitist assholes of your side the election.

I feel that Islam at its roots is a solid, clean religion that does not deserve any more scrutiny than Christianity or Judaism. Islamic Fundamentalism has tarnished its name and turned Islam into the world's enemy.

Look at Turkey, Tex. Turkey's economy is on the up. The country is making strides in infrastructure and human rights. They are becoming one of the big players in the world. But why? Because they are SECULAR. Do not associate all of Islam as one big theocracy that prides itself on being the destroyers of Christianity. Places like Afghanistan are in shambles because Islam severely diminishes what people in the country can do. However, not all countries are Islamic Republics that wish death upon Christians.

Ballhawk, do you even know what "fundamentalism" means? It means getting back to the pure true teachings of the holy book--the Bible in the case of Christian fundamentalism, the Koran in the case of Muslim fundamentalism. It's all written right there--the hate for Jews and Christians, the barbarism, the beheadings, the mistreatment of women, the glorification of ignorance, the suppression of freedom and advocacy of tyranny, etc.

Now I suppose some of our sick leftist haters of America and Christianity will trot out "moral equivalence" and find fault with a few of the darker passages of the Old Testament too, but the simple fact is: Our western Christian American values and beliefs benefit humanity, while Islam does not. Could you possibly continue to argue otherwise?

You brought up Turkey; Turkey is an exception--a westernized NON fundamentalist example of Islam. Even there, though, there are factions which want to turn back the clock to barbarism and depravity.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Ballhawk, do you even know what "fundamentalism" means? It means getting back to the pure true teachings of the holy book--the Bible in the case of Christian fundamentalism, the Koran in the case of Muslim fundamentalism. It's all written right there--the hate for Jews and Christians, the barbarism, the beheadings, the mistreatment of women, the glorification of ignorance, the suppression of freedom and advocacy of tyranny, etc..

The Torah, Quran, and Old Testement are all based on the same scriptures. The Quran is mostly a retelling/reinterpretation of the same stories.

I suppose this doesn't prove that Islam isn't some evil deviation. But most Muslims in the world do not fit your characterization.

[BallHawk]

I suppose this doesn't prove that Islam isn't some evil deviation. But most Muslims in the world do not fit your characterization.

You mean most Muslims don't walk around carrying machetes, burning the cross, all while being lambasted in the blood of American virgins?

The way Muslims are painted in today's world is very similar to the way the Native Americans were portrayed when America was expanding west. Savage beasts, killing women and children with no mercy, etc.

[texaspackerbacker]

Ballhawk, do you even know what "fundamentalism" means? It means getting back to the pure true teachings of the holy book--the Bible in the case of Christian fundamentalism, the Koran in the case of Muslim fundamentalism. It's all written right there--the hate for Jews and Christians, the barbarism, the beheadings, the mistreatment of women, the glorification of ignorance, the suppression of freedom and advocacy of tyranny, etc..

The Torah, Quran, and Old Testement are all based on the same scriptures. The Quran is mostly a retelling/reinterpretation of the same stories.

I suppose this doesn't prove that Islam isn't some evil deviation. But most Muslims in the world do not fit your characterization.

That's because most Muslims presumably are not fundamentalists. The ones who are CLEARLY do fit the characterization, and even though they probably ARE a minority, they have the majority of Muslims scared shitless with their tyranny and barbarism--ALL part of the big picture of western/Christian/American enlightenment and humanity, and fundamentalist Muslim rottenness and depravity to all mankind, including the less rotten of their own kind.

[Harlan Huckleby]

it is interesting to see what is going on in Pakistan. That is the bloody front line of the battle within Islam. The bad guys have been gaining the last three years, but at least it appears that the more moderate majority is waking up to the threat. The moderates appear to have suffered from their open alliance with the U.S., but that is changing now.

[texaspackerbacker]

it is interesting to see what is going on in Pakistan. That is the bloody front line of the battle within Islam. The bad guys have been gaining the last three years, but at least it appears that the more moderate majority is waking up to the threat. The moderates appear to have suffered from their open alliance with the U.S., but that is changing now.

A prime example of what I've been saying: the evil barbaric fundamentalists are seeking to undo the western-style freedom, prosperity, representative government, etc. I think we've got enough insiders there, though, to keep Pakistan from going down the toilet completely. That had better be the case with their having nukes and all.

You know, a very significant factor in the geopolitics of that whole part of the world is that there are over a billion Muslim-hating Hindus, complete with their own nukes--that wouldn't need too much of an excuse--or green light from us--to pretty much obliterate the Muslim world. I suppose leftists and namby pamby non-leftists too look at that concept with dread or disgust.

Oops. I guess I said something extremist ........ well, I didn't actually say I was for it, did I?