A hidden valley in Colorado

[Partial]

Re: A hidden valley in Colorado

CAPS...

CAPS....

Choosing not to enter the field? Really? Another mistatement on your part. Med school apps are up.

I've known just short of a dozen med school applicants. I don't know any doctors. Turns out applying to med school doesn't make you a doctor. Sucks for them. And for your argument.

Of course they aren't docs...smart people who get into med school don't hang around with your type.

The point, which you can't deny is that med schools are hardly crying about filling open spots. There are no shortage of applicants and no shortage of good applicants to fill the school.

The flaw in your logic is that the good candidates may be leaving to go elsewhere perhaps, and the candidates applying are not as strong. Most medical schools are far easier to get in then PA programs (other than the very elite ones), and many good doctor candidates are becoming PAs because you get to actually help people and do what a doctor does essentially without the overhead of actually running the business.

That's a very cocky statement to make about Skin. He is not classy enough to roll with people who apply to medical school? I'd love to meet you and punch you in the face for being such a pompous douche.

1. Good candidates...right. Please show some proof of that. Otherwise it is just more of your bullshit.

2. Med schools easier. Right. PA programs may have more applicants..again some proof please.

3. People choosing PA over doctor. Right. Sure they are. This is ludicrous. To compare the roll and salary of a PA to a physician is hilarious.

4. Skin. Man, you can't even follow along. I never said he wasn't classy enough to roll with applicants...clearly he is...as he stated he knew many. Try and follow along...the folks he knows may be classy, but not smart enough or have the grades.

5. Punch me. LOL. Wow. you are showing your class. And, i would be glad to let you punch me...as there would be nothing more hilarious than watching you go jail on an assualt and battery charge. I'm sure your future employers will love that when they run a background check and discover you are a new felon. Good times.

Not to mention the time, money and aggravation it will cost you since it is also a tort, which means I can sue you for damages.

1) I'm disputing your claim which you provided zero sources?

2) There are a lot more doctors than PAs. Also, a lot more medical programs than PA programs. Look it up. I have very good knowledge of the subject as my girlfriend is in a top 15 PA program and also applied and was accepted to many medical schools. Maybe for the very top level of medical schools yes, but for most... no way is it even comparable. You don't need very good grades at all to get into medical school. Good luck getting into a PA program without first rate grades.

3) That's funny because all of the ladies' friends all chose to be PAs over doctors. Clearly doctors appreciate them or the job wouldn't exist. Also, would it be money magazines #1 field to go into if it weren't popular and important? Sure, salary isn't as high because the doctor is always the boss. Go to a hospital and see what kind of income the docs make.. Not as much as you'd think. Private practice is where the $ is. Again though, since they essentially are a doctor (they can write perscriptions, etc, most people go to see a PA for checkups, PAs can do a large amount of surgeries, etc), I don't really think your statement holds any water. The role is very, very similiar except the PAs actually take care of the patients. No one compared the salary except yourself...

4. You said smart doctors don't roll with his type. Are you calling him dumb? How many doctors do you roll with? Please son... Just because both of your parents were doctors doesn't mean you're smart enough to be one or you would be. Your shit stinks as much as anybodies.

5. Ok big guy. That's really manly of you. I bet back in whitefish bay when you were clocked in the dome during high school you went and cried to your doc folks as well.

You have lost. Face it.

1. Zero sources. Wrong. I provided 3 right away. It isn't my fault that you jump in midway. That is pretty typical of you.

So, that is point one that you are wrong.

2. med vs. pa programs. Who was arguing the #. As for Money magazine...that isn't what you are saying. They choose by need, etc. No one is disputing the need for PAs or nurses..or doctors.

RIGHT. I'M SAYING PLENTY OF QUALIFIED PEOPLE WITH BRAINS CHOOSE BEING A PA OVER A DOCTOR BECAUSE THEY'RE MORE CONCERNED WITH HELPING PEOPLE THAN MAKING THE BIG BUCKS. MY GF IS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.

You dont' need good grades to get into med school. Right. Then, maybe you should explain to Skin's friends that couldn't get in that they must be complete losers.

MAYBE THE FLUNKED OUT OR CHANGED THEIR MINDS? I HAVE NO IDEA. FACTS ARE FACTS. THERE ARE FAR MORE MEDICAL PROGRAMS THAN PA PROGRAMS, SO BY VIRTUE OF LIMITED SPOTS, IT IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO GET INTO A SCHOOL. TO GET INTO A REALLY HIGH END TOP 15 MEDICAL SCHOOL IS PROBABLY HARDER, THOUGH.


That is just so ludicrous that it makes you even appear more stupid..which i thought wasn't possible.

REALLY? DO THE HOMEWORK... HAVE YOU APPLIED TO ANY MEDICAL SCHOOLS LATELY? HOW ABOUT PA SCHOOLS? I'VE GONE THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS WITH MY GIRLFRIEND. TYPICAL LIBERAL SPEAKING OF WICH HE HAS NO EXPERIENCE.

PA programs..like which ones. Grad or just the ones that require 2 years of schooling. LOL

UHHH... OTHER THAN MADISON WHAT PA PROGRAMS DON'T GIVE YOU A MASTERS? PA IS AN UNDERGRAD IN TYPICALLY BIOLOGY/CHEM/PREMED THAN TWO YEARS OF THE SAME CLASSES DOCTORS TAKE.

FUNNY STORY ACTUALLY. AT ROSALIND FRANKLIN, A TOP 20 MEDICAL AND PA SCHOOL IN GENERAL MEDICINE, THE MEDICAL STUDENTS ARE ALL COCKY DOUCHES. IRONICALLY, THE TOP 10% ON THE LAST EXAM WAS ALL PA STUDENTS. THE TEACHER, A PA, POINTED IT OUT BECAUSE THE MEDICAL STUDENTS ARE DOUCHES.


There are currently about 140 plus med schools...and, about 90 PA programs offering masters level.



Salary: Dude. Don't make me laugh. The worst doctors make at least 50% more than a PA..taking out ambulatory from the equation. Most PAs top out in the 90s. Most doctors aren't in the low paying fields like internal medicine or pediatrics.which max out over 200K. The lowest average max out is ambulatory at 150K.

NO SHIT. WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SALARY? ONLY YOU. I SAID ITS NOT COMPARABLE. I ALSO SAID A DOCTOR IN A HOSPITAL ISN'T EARNING AS MUCH AS YOU THINK. AND THE 200K IN AVERAGE DEBT AT 8% (TODAY, WAIT UNTIL ITS 15% 5 YEARS FROM NOW WITH THE WAY CREDIT IS) COMPOUNDS AWFULLY QUICKLY.

BTW, PAS DON'T HAVE MALPRACTICE INSURANCE EITHER. THEY'RE COVERED BY THEIR DOCTORS. THAT IS A GOOD CHUNK OF THE DOCTORS EARNINGS AS WELL.

GOOD PA'S START AT 90S DEPENDING WHAT THEY'RE IN AND WHERE THEY WENT TO SCHOOL, HOW OLD THEY ARE, ETC. MY GIRLFRIEND HAS TALKED WITH CONSOLERS AND MY STEP MOM IS AN ADMIN AT A MILWAUKEE HOSPITAL, AND THEY BOTH AGREE SHE CAN GET ABOUT 80 IN GENERAL MEDICINE STARTING. SHE WANTS TO DO SURGERY, WHERE SHE CAN GET 150K WITH EXPERIENCE. PRIVATE PRACTICE PAS THAT SPECIALIZE IN SOMETHING CAN EASILY BILL OUT 75-100 BUCKS AN HOUR. DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON TRAVELING PAS AND THE 300 THEY CAN BILL AN HOUR.

You really shouldn't talk about things you know very little. I can list 50 physicians that i know personally..from ages 35-70.

WELL, THATS GOOD, BUT YOU JUST SERVED ABOVE.

Role: No one goes to see a PA for primary care. They go to a doctor who has a PA on staff. No PA can work on their own. The role is similar to a hygenist and dentist.

ITS NOT AT ALL SIMILIAR TO A HYGENIST. YOU'RE SUCH A DUMBASS IF YOU THINK THATS TRUE. GO TO ANY AURURA FACILITY WITH A COLD... YOU'RE SEEING A PA. GO TO A DERMATOLOGIST IN MILWAUKEE... YOU'RE SEEING A PA. GO TO A PODIATRIST... YOU'RE SEEING A PA. SHUT THE FUCK UP MAN, THAT IS BEYOND RETARDED.

Surgey: LOL. No pa can perform surgery. They assist in surgery and they do pre and post op care.

SURGICAL ASSISTANTS ARE COMPLETELY TRAINED TO COMPLETE SURGERIES. WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? PA != NURSE. PA IS A STRIPPED DOWN DOCTOR.

Scripts: LOL No pa can write a prescription.

THATS FUNNY. ITS MY UNDERSTANDING PA'S IN SOME STATES AND FIELDS CAN WRITE ALL OF THEIR PERSCRIPTIONS, AND MUST A VERY SMALL FRACTION OF THEM SIGNED OFF BY A DOCTOR AT THE END OF A PERIOD OF TIME (LIKE A MONTH)

DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OR ARE YOU JUST MAKING THIS UP?!?! IT'S A LOAD OF BULL... EVERY PA WITH A MASTERS DEGREE CAN WRITE PERSCRIPTIONS AS FAR AS I KNOW. THERE MAY BE SOME RARE EXCEPTIONS, BUT THAT IS NOT USUALLY THE CASE.

You just have proven how little you know about the field.

SEE ABOVE. YOU'RE SO WRONG ITS LAUGHABLE BROHAM.

3: Ladies? What does that prove or mean. Women choose careers for many reasons. However, there are equal amounts of women in med school now. And, who knows why some would choose PA or Nurse instead..if grades arent' the issue. Perhaps they like the less school and less hours so they can be home with their family.

I WAS REFERENCING ALL OF MY GIRLFRIENDS FRIENDS AT RFUMS. MANY ARE MEN AS WELL. PA IS A VERY POPULAR CHOICE NOW. VERY HIGH IN DEMAND..



4. Skin. Wow, now you get the joke. More importantly...why are you defending him? Is he incapable of doing it for himself?




5. Docs...as noted...prolly at least 50 that i can immediately count. From plastic surgeons, radiologists, shrinks, urologists, etc. Pretty much the gamut.


THATS GOOD. I KNOW ABOUT 20 PEOPLE WHO WILL BE PAS NEXT YEAR, SO I FEEL QUITE QUALIFIED TO SPEAK ON THE SUBJECT.

6. Smart enough. You would be wrong. My test scores prove otherwise. As would recs from those docs who know me. More importantly, i never had any interest in the field..nor did my parents ever want their children to enter that field.

7. Manly. Well, that just shows your maturity level and your concepts of manhood.

P.S. I didn't grow up in Whitefolks Bay. Second, i didn't get into fights. I was too smart and centered to get into fights. My god, only idiots are fighting in high school. And, those that are in college that are doing so..or thinking about it...morons.

TY, TY, TY... IF YOU ACTED HALF AS COCKY IN REAL LIFE AS YOU DO ON THESE BOARDS, YOU'D GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE DAILY. FACTS ARE FACTS DUDE.

1. Schools. Until you show the number of applicants for each type..your argument is bs.


2. Schools. There are 90 offering grad programs. There are around 135 total...that means there are programs that are offering PA that don't offer masters. Buhbye.

YOU MAY NOT GET A MASTERS, BUT THEY ALL REQUIRE MORE THAN 4 YEARS OF EDUCATION, AND 2 YEARS IS NEARLY IDENTICAL TO THAT OF A DOCTOR. BUH BYE YOURSELF.


3. helping people. OH, i get it. YOu get to determine what exaclty is helping people.

????


4. Salary. It is relevant regarding the choice. As for salary. Dude, you don't know what you are talking about. I gave you averages. Go look at the Bureau of Labor Stats. I don't think you have any clue what docs are making. After 7-10 years most are making well into the 400-700K range.


400 K ISN'T THAT MUCH WHEN YOU'RE PAYING 200 GRAND + EASILY IN INSURANCE COSTS

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0843/is_2_28/ai_84236557

And, you are such an idiot. Who the fuck works for a hospital. Practically none. Hospitals don't staff anymore. They outsource the work to physician groups. You really have no idea how it works.

As for your 90k starting. Not according the the Bureau of Labor.


AGAIN, IT DEPENDS ON MANY SITUATIONS. NO ONE SAID THEY AVERAGE THAT. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY GO INTO AND WHERE.

I KNOW A CHIEF OF MEDICINE PERSONALLY AT A HOSPITAL THAT PAYS PAS 80 AN HOUR. THAT IS 160 A YEAR. ALMOST AS MUCH AS A DOCTOR AFTER YOU TAKE OUT THE 200K IN INSURANCE COSTS!!!


Sure it is popular..just like Nursing and being a doctor. There is demand for anyone in the healthcare field..we have an aging society. Is this news to you.



5. PAs you know. Right, the limited time you've been in florida with them qualifies you.

IN FLORIDA? WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?


6. Franklin. LOL That is a bottom tiered med school.

IT THE #14 PA SCHOOL, THOUGH. IT'S MIDDLE OF THE PACK OF MEDICAL SCHOOLS. AGAIN, DON'T GET YOUR POINT. THERE ARE WAY MORE MEDICAL SCHOOLS THAN PA SCHOOLS. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

7. Malpractice. Wrong. A doc in primary may cover a PA..ooh, 600 a year for basic 100-300k coverage. But, very few docs are coving PAs in high risk fields.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0843/is_2_28/ai_84236557

THAT IS BASIC COVERAGE. I'VE HEARD OF PEOPLE PAYING FOR MORE FOR INSURANCE. BUH BYE

I'm not going to continue because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. No PA can write scripts without doctor oversite..be it in person, telecom or regular consultation and no PA performs surgery...unless you are counting minor surgery performed under local.

YOU CHANGE YOUR STORY AGAIN. BEFORE, NO PA COULD WRITE THEM PERIOD. NOW, THEY REQUIRE DOCTOR OVERSITE. NO SHIT. THATS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. THEY NEED A CERTAIN AMOUNT APPROVED PER MONTH.

MINOR SURGERY IS STILL SURGERY. AGAIN, CHANGING YOUR STORY. YOU GOT SERVED.

DOES IT HURT TO BE SO WRONG? YOU CHANGE YOUR STORY ALL THE TIME. YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT.

[Scott Campbell]

I think that's why she left.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: A hidden valley in Colorado

CAPS...

CAPS....

Choosing not to enter the field? Really? Another mistatement on your part. Med school apps are up.

I've known just short of a dozen med school applicants. I don't know any doctors. Turns out applying to med school doesn't make you a doctor. Sucks for them. And for your argument.

Of course they aren't docs...smart people who get into med school don't hang around with your type.

The point, which you can't deny is that med schools are hardly crying about filling open spots. There are no shortage of applicants and no shortage of good applicants to fill the school.

The flaw in your logic is that the good candidates may be leaving to go elsewhere perhaps, and the candidates applying are not as strong. Most medical schools are far easier to get in then PA programs (other than the very elite ones), and many good doctor candidates are becoming PAs because you get to actually help people and do what a doctor does essentially without the overhead of actually running the business.

That's a very cocky statement to make about Skin. He is not classy enough to roll with people who apply to medical school? I'd love to meet you and punch you in the face for being such a pompous douche.

1. Good candidates...right. Please show some proof of that. Otherwise it is just more of your bullshit.

2. Med schools easier. Right. PA programs may have more applicants..again some proof please.

3. People choosing PA over doctor. Right. Sure they are. This is ludicrous. To compare the roll and salary of a PA to a physician is hilarious.

4. Skin. Man, you can't even follow along. I never said he wasn't classy enough to roll with applicants...clearly he is...as he stated he knew many. Try and follow along...the folks he knows may be classy, but not smart enough or have the grades.

5. Punch me. LOL. Wow. you are showing your class. And, i would be glad to let you punch me...as there would be nothing more hilarious than watching you go jail on an assualt and battery charge. I'm sure your future employers will love that when they run a background check and discover you are a new felon. Good times.

Not to mention the time, money and aggravation it will cost you since it is also a tort, which means I can sue you for damages.

1) I'm disputing your claim which you provided zero sources?

2) There are a lot more doctors than PAs. Also, a lot more medical programs than PA programs. Look it up. I have very good knowledge of the subject as my girlfriend is in a top 15 PA program and also applied and was accepted to many medical schools. Maybe for the very top level of medical schools yes, but for most... no way is it even comparable. You don't need very good grades at all to get into medical school. Good luck getting into a PA program without first rate grades.

3) That's funny because all of the ladies' friends all chose to be PAs over doctors. Clearly doctors appreciate them or the job wouldn't exist. Also, would it be money magazines #1 field to go into if it weren't popular and important? Sure, salary isn't as high because the doctor is always the boss. Go to a hospital and see what kind of income the docs make.. Not as much as you'd think. Private practice is where the $ is. Again though, since they essentially are a doctor (they can write perscriptions, etc, most people go to see a PA for checkups, PAs can do a large amount of surgeries, etc), I don't really think your statement holds any water. The role is very, very similiar except the PAs actually take care of the patients. No one compared the salary except yourself...

4. You said smart doctors don't roll with his type. Are you calling him dumb? How many doctors do you roll with? Please son... Just because both of your parents were doctors doesn't mean you're smart enough to be one or you would be. Your shit stinks as much as anybodies.

5. Ok big guy. That's really manly of you. I bet back in whitefish bay when you were clocked in the dome during high school you went and cried to your doc folks as well.

You have lost. Face it.

1. Zero sources. Wrong. I provided 3 right away. It isn't my fault that you jump in midway. That is pretty typical of you.

So, that is point one that you are wrong.

2. med vs. pa programs. Who was arguing the #. As for Money magazine...that isn't what you are saying. They choose by need, etc. No one is disputing the need for PAs or nurses..or doctors.

RIGHT. I'M SAYING PLENTY OF QUALIFIED PEOPLE WITH BRAINS CHOOSE BEING A PA OVER A DOCTOR BECAUSE THEY'RE MORE CONCERNED WITH HELPING PEOPLE THAN MAKING THE BIG BUCKS. MY GF IS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.

You dont' need good grades to get into med school. Right. Then, maybe you should explain to Skin's friends that couldn't get in that they must be complete losers.

MAYBE THE FLUNKED OUT OR CHANGED THEIR MINDS? I HAVE NO IDEA. FACTS ARE FACTS. THERE ARE FAR MORE MEDICAL PROGRAMS THAN PA PROGRAMS, SO BY VIRTUE OF LIMITED SPOTS, IT IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO GET INTO A SCHOOL. TO GET INTO A REALLY HIGH END TOP 15 MEDICAL SCHOOL IS PROBABLY HARDER, THOUGH.


That is just so ludicrous that it makes you even appear more stupid..which i thought wasn't possible.

REALLY? DO THE HOMEWORK... HAVE YOU APPLIED TO ANY MEDICAL SCHOOLS LATELY? HOW ABOUT PA SCHOOLS? I'VE GONE THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS WITH MY GIRLFRIEND. TYPICAL LIBERAL SPEAKING OF WICH HE HAS NO EXPERIENCE.

PA programs..like which ones. Grad or just the ones that require 2 years of schooling. LOL

UHHH... OTHER THAN MADISON WHAT PA PROGRAMS DON'T GIVE YOU A MASTERS? PA IS AN UNDERGRAD IN TYPICALLY BIOLOGY/CHEM/PREMED THAN TWO YEARS OF THE SAME CLASSES DOCTORS TAKE.

FUNNY STORY ACTUALLY. AT ROSALIND FRANKLIN, A TOP 20 MEDICAL AND PA SCHOOL IN GENERAL MEDICINE, THE MEDICAL STUDENTS ARE ALL COCKY DOUCHES. IRONICALLY, THE TOP 10% ON THE LAST EXAM WAS ALL PA STUDENTS. THE TEACHER, A PA, POINTED IT OUT BECAUSE THE MEDICAL STUDENTS ARE DOUCHES.


There are currently about 140 plus med schools...and, about 90 PA programs offering masters level.



Salary: Dude. Don't make me laugh. The worst doctors make at least 50% more than a PA..taking out ambulatory from the equation. Most PAs top out in the 90s. Most doctors aren't in the low paying fields like internal medicine or pediatrics.which max out over 200K. The lowest average max out is ambulatory at 150K.

NO SHIT. WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SALARY? ONLY YOU. I SAID ITS NOT COMPARABLE. I ALSO SAID A DOCTOR IN A HOSPITAL ISN'T EARNING AS MUCH AS YOU THINK. AND THE 200K IN AVERAGE DEBT AT 8% (TODAY, WAIT UNTIL ITS 15% 5 YEARS FROM NOW WITH THE WAY CREDIT IS) COMPOUNDS AWFULLY QUICKLY.

BTW, PAS DON'T HAVE MALPRACTICE INSURANCE EITHER. THEY'RE COVERED BY THEIR DOCTORS. THAT IS A GOOD CHUNK OF THE DOCTORS EARNINGS AS WELL.

GOOD PA'S START AT 90S DEPENDING WHAT THEY'RE IN AND WHERE THEY WENT TO SCHOOL, HOW OLD THEY ARE, ETC. MY GIRLFRIEND HAS TALKED WITH CONSOLERS AND MY STEP MOM IS AN ADMIN AT A MILWAUKEE HOSPITAL, AND THEY BOTH AGREE SHE CAN GET ABOUT 80 IN GENERAL MEDICINE STARTING. SHE WANTS TO DO SURGERY, WHERE SHE CAN GET 150K WITH EXPERIENCE. PRIVATE PRACTICE PAS THAT SPECIALIZE IN SOMETHING CAN EASILY BILL OUT 75-100 BUCKS AN HOUR. DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON TRAVELING PAS AND THE 300 THEY CAN BILL AN HOUR.

You really shouldn't talk about things you know very little. I can list 50 physicians that i know personally..from ages 35-70.

WELL, THATS GOOD, BUT YOU JUST SERVED ABOVE.

Role: No one goes to see a PA for primary care. They go to a doctor who has a PA on staff. No PA can work on their own. The role is similar to a hygenist and dentist.

ITS NOT AT ALL SIMILIAR TO A HYGENIST. YOU'RE SUCH A DUMBASS IF YOU THINK THATS TRUE. GO TO ANY AURURA FACILITY WITH A COLD... YOU'RE SEEING A PA. GO TO A DERMATOLOGIST IN MILWAUKEE... YOU'RE SEEING A PA. GO TO A PODIATRIST... YOU'RE SEEING A PA. SHUT THE FUCK UP MAN, THAT IS BEYOND RETARDED.

Surgey: LOL. No pa can perform surgery. They assist in surgery and they do pre and post op care.

SURGICAL ASSISTANTS ARE COMPLETELY TRAINED TO COMPLETE SURGERIES. WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? PA != NURSE. PA IS A STRIPPED DOWN DOCTOR.

Scripts: LOL No pa can write a prescription.

THATS FUNNY. ITS MY UNDERSTANDING PA'S IN SOME STATES AND FIELDS CAN WRITE ALL OF THEIR PERSCRIPTIONS, AND MUST A VERY SMALL FRACTION OF THEM SIGNED OFF BY A DOCTOR AT THE END OF A PERIOD OF TIME (LIKE A MONTH)

DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OR ARE YOU JUST MAKING THIS UP?!?! IT'S A LOAD OF BULL... EVERY PA WITH A MASTERS DEGREE CAN WRITE PERSCRIPTIONS AS FAR AS I KNOW. THERE MAY BE SOME RARE EXCEPTIONS, BUT THAT IS NOT USUALLY THE CASE.

You just have proven how little you know about the field.

SEE ABOVE. YOU'RE SO WRONG ITS LAUGHABLE BROHAM.

3: Ladies? What does that prove or mean. Women choose careers for many reasons. However, there are equal amounts of women in med school now. And, who knows why some would choose PA or Nurse instead..if grades arent' the issue. Perhaps they like the less school and less hours so they can be home with their family.

I WAS REFERENCING ALL OF MY GIRLFRIENDS FRIENDS AT RFUMS. MANY ARE MEN AS WELL. PA IS A VERY POPULAR CHOICE NOW. VERY HIGH IN DEMAND..



4. Skin. Wow, now you get the joke. More importantly...why are you defending him? Is he incapable of doing it for himself?




5. Docs...as noted...prolly at least 50 that i can immediately count. From plastic surgeons, radiologists, shrinks, urologists, etc. Pretty much the gamut.


THATS GOOD. I KNOW ABOUT 20 PEOPLE WHO WILL BE PAS NEXT YEAR, SO I FEEL QUITE QUALIFIED TO SPEAK ON THE SUBJECT.

6. Smart enough. You would be wrong. My test scores prove otherwise. As would recs from those docs who know me. More importantly, i never had any interest in the field..nor did my parents ever want their children to enter that field.

7. Manly. Well, that just shows your maturity level and your concepts of manhood.

P.S. I didn't grow up in Whitefolks Bay. Second, i didn't get into fights. I was too smart and centered to get into fights. My god, only idiots are fighting in high school. And, those that are in college that are doing so..or thinking about it...morons.

TY, TY, TY... IF YOU ACTED HALF AS COCKY IN REAL LIFE AS YOU DO ON THESE BOARDS, YOU'D GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE DAILY. FACTS ARE FACTS DUDE.

1. Schools. Until you show the number of applicants for each type..your argument is bs.


2. Schools. There are 90 offering grad programs. There are around 135 total...that means there are programs that are offering PA that don't offer masters. Buhbye.

YOU MAY NOT GET A MASTERS, BUT THEY ALL REQUIRE MORE THAN 4 YEARS OF EDUCATION, AND 2 YEARS IS NEARLY IDENTICAL TO THAT OF A DOCTOR. BUH BYE YOURSELF.


3. helping people. OH, i get it. YOu get to determine what exaclty is helping people.

????


4. Salary. It is relevant regarding the choice. As for salary. Dude, you don't know what you are talking about. I gave you averages. Go look at the Bureau of Labor Stats. I don't think you have any clue what docs are making. After 7-10 years most are making well into the 400-700K range.


400 K ISN'T THAT MUCH WHEN YOU'RE PAYING 200 GRAND + EASILY IN INSURANCE COSTS

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0843/is_2_28/ai_84236557

And, you are such an idiot. Who the fuck works for a hospital. Practically none. Hospitals don't staff anymore. They outsource the work to physician groups. You really have no idea how it works.

As for your 90k starting. Not according the the Bureau of Labor.


AGAIN, IT DEPENDS ON MANY SITUATIONS. NO ONE SAID THEY AVERAGE THAT. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY GO INTO AND WHERE.

I KNOW A CHIEF OF MEDICINE PERSONALLY AT A HOSPITAL THAT PAYS PAS 80 AN HOUR. THAT IS 160 A YEAR. ALMOST AS MUCH AS A DOCTOR AFTER YOU TAKE OUT THE 200K IN INSURANCE COSTS!!!


Sure it is popular..just like Nursing and being a doctor. There is demand for anyone in the healthcare field..we have an aging society. Is this news to you.



5. PAs you know. Right, the limited time you've been in florida with them qualifies you.

IN FLORIDA? WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?


6. Franklin. LOL That is a bottom tiered med school.

IT THE #14 PA SCHOOL, THOUGH. IT'S MIDDLE OF THE PACK OF MEDICAL SCHOOLS. AGAIN, DON'T GET YOUR POINT. THERE ARE WAY MORE MEDICAL SCHOOLS THAN PA SCHOOLS. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

7. Malpractice. Wrong. A doc in primary may cover a PA..ooh, 600 a year for basic 100-300k coverage. But, very few docs are coving PAs in high risk fields.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0843/is_2_28/ai_84236557

THAT IS BASIC COVERAGE. I'VE HEARD OF PEOPLE PAYING FOR MORE FOR INSURANCE. BUH BYE

I'm not going to continue because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. No PA can write scripts without doctor oversite..be it in person, telecom or regular consultation and no PA performs surgery...unless you are counting minor surgery performed under local.

YOU CHANGE YOUR STORY AGAIN. BEFORE, NO PA COULD WRITE THEM PERIOD. NOW, THEY REQUIRE DOCTOR OVERSITE. NO SHIT. THATS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. THEY NEED A CERTAIN AMOUNT APPROVED PER MONTH.

MINOR SURGERY IS STILL SURGERY. AGAIN, CHANGING YOUR STORY. YOU GOT SERVED.

DOES IT HURT TO BE SO WRONG? YOU CHANGE YOUR STORY ALL THE TIME. YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT.

NO, you suggested they could just open up a clinic and write scripts.

Surgery: Sorry, but when somebody says surgery and doesnt' clearly state minor then most people are gonna think real surgery..not removing a mole.

Wrong: You mean like your med school app bs, your RM med school being top 20, your salary survey, etc.?

[Partial]

TY, show me where I said they can open their own clinics. Your inability to read is not my problem.

Surgery is surgery. I said they can perform some surgeries. Again, not my problem you interpreted open heart surgery. Learn to read. Assuming makes an ass out of you.

Salary? You said they can make as little as 400k with experience. Fine. Now subtract 200 grand in insurance. That's 200 grand.

I see ads on craigslist all the time for PAs billing at 90-120 an hour.

That is actually MORE money when all is said and done

I'm not saying thats common. I'm saying PAs is a sweet deal. That is why plenty of people are opting to do that, instead of going to medical school.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

TY, show me where I said they can open their own clinics. Your inability to read is not my problem.

Surgery is surgery. I said they can perform some surgeries. Again, not my problem you interpreted open heart surgery. Learn to read. Assuming makes an ass out of you.

Salary? You said they can make as little as 400k with experience. Fine. Now subtract 200 grand in insurance. That's 200 grand.

I see ads on craigslist all the time for PAs billing at 90-120 an hour.

That is actually MORE money when all is said and done

I'm not saying thats common. I'm saying PAs is a sweet deal. That is why plenty of people are opting to do that, instead of going to medical school.

Clinics: you implied it by saying that if you go to Aurora you are seeing PAs..as if there are no doctors.

Surgery: you stated they can do a

large amount of surgeries

. That is laughable. Now it is some surgeries.

Salary: Most doctors arent' paying half into insurance. Get serious.

Craigslist: Hmm, that tells me that someone isn't employed. LOL Charging an hourly rate on craigslist is hardly something for you to use. People who arent' fully employed always try to charge a high hourly rate. Guess those people arent' getting all the work they need as they are on craigslist.

Also, now they are running their own business..something you touted they wouldn't be doing. That means they have to bill, they have to advertise, they have to pay their own malpractice, and pay TAXES like any other business, have to keep track of business expenses, etc.

Furthermore PAs and NPs are seeing their malpractice/liability costs go up as well.

Finally, only a fool would think that PAs are making more than doctors.

[Partial]

Dumbass its recruiters on craigslist.

There are plenty of small surgeries. Tons and tons. I'd argue there are far more minor surgeries than major.

I posted an article of the amount doctors are paying in. Where is your evidence other than get real? If an OBGYN is paying that, imagine how much a surgeon, etc is paying. You get real my friend.

[bobblehead]

Re: A hidden valley in Colorado

I'm not going to waste much time blogging while I sit here in thailand, but I am going to make this post.....there is exaxtly ONE hospital here that I would consider going to for treatment. I enjoy myself here, but using it as a model or example in any arguement automatically diminishes the entire arguement in my eyes.

As far as money and talent fleeing the country goes....ask yourself what I might be doing here besides vacationing.

I take it Thailand doesn't figure among the places you'd move to if you decide you're fed up with tax rates in the US?

not gonna fix the quote boxes cuz i'm on a laptop, but I can go to that one hospital, so yes i could move here, i'm simply saying using foreign healthcare as an arguement is bad...I'm in a little town on the makhong river and good luck with healthcare worth a shit.

[bobblehead]

Re: A hidden valley in Colorado

As far as money and talent fleeing the country goes....ask yourself what I might be doing here besides vacationing.

PatPong?

that qualifies as vacationing.

[bobblehead]

Re: A hidden valley in Colorado

Look, if an operation costs 50K here, and 25K there.....

Why the price disparity?

And as a follow up, you seem to be a very eager proponent of free markets in medicine….go to Thailand!!! It’s cheaper!!! Why do we hear over and over nowadays that going AWAY from free markets is the answer?

ty is right on this, but he is missing the point. the price desparity has to do with taking advantage of cheap labor and the US over regulating health care in every way. Propping up HMO's so they could artificially gain market share....I've been over all this before and I don't feel like typing on this laptop keyboard, but companies are going to fly you to that one hospital in thailand to save 20k, and offer you 5k to do it, they already are.

[bobblehead]

Re: A hidden valley in Colorado

I have nothing personal against you, Ty, or any other Liberal……I am just trying to have a discussion. Frankly, the thing that strikes the most fear in me about my country is the lack of honest discussions about ideas that now permeates the air.

At any rate, I will give a few examples, one of which you will dismiss out of hand because it involves Reagan.

I'm not dismissing your argument because it involves Reagan, I'm questioning your logic because, frankly, it strikes me as illogical. You say you are concerned about the lack of sincere discussion between the opposing ends of the political spectrum in this country. I agree. But I would suggest that the chances for real dialogue are diminished, not increased, when we make claims that are based on poorly thought out examples or examples that appeal to the emotions. The Left is undoubtedly guilty of this as well the Right. The claim that doctors will start quitting in droves if we implement universal health care is one example of such an appeal to emotion; the story about the rich taking their marbles and going home (whether this means moving to Costa Rica or just pulling out of the market) is another such example. If you can provide real evidence that these are in fact significant trends or real possibilties, I will rethink my position. Until then I can only see these scenarios as bogeymen.

Forget about it Bobby, it's just a thought experiment. Something we used to do in our country.

At what marginal tax rate do people with capital not put that capital at risk anymore because it's not worth it anymore?

I'm not going to take the time to see how much Reagan made, that's not the point.....plug the richest actor in 1965 into the question, make up a theoretical actor!

its simply math...do i want 5.3% on a gov't no tax/no risk bond or 10% on a taxable risk investment...how much tax and risk?? do the math you have an answer.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Dumbass its recruiters on craigslist.

There are plenty of small surgeries. Tons and tons. I'd argue there are far more minor surgeries than major.

I posted an article of the amount doctors are paying in. Where is your evidence other than get real? If an OBGYN is paying that, imagine how much a surgeon, etc is paying. You get real my friend.

Dumbass? You stated the PAs were billing..that implies they are doing the billing. That isn't recruiters.

As for billing..a quick perusal on miltown craigs..shows a 60 per hour. I searched under PA and Physi Asst. Nice try.

Small surgeries? Like what? Your pediatrician doesn't perform them. Derms do a bit. What minor surgeries are there besides moles, cysts, warts, eartubes, removal of thorns, injections, etc.

You have officially lost your mind.

Malpractice: First, dipshit...that was from 02. But, let's just use your article.

West Virginia obstetricians paid an average of $75,155 in 2001, while their colleagues next door in Kentucky were charged only $41,661.

Wow. You couldn't be selectively using info could you. The 200k was for South Florida...and the article stated.

Obstetricians, neurosurgeons, emergency physicians and other high-risk specialists have absorbed the brunt of the blow.

Florida is not average..it is way more costly there. But, nice try.

Now, how about my source..how about for anesthesia specialists? Oops, premiums dropping...average in 07 was 23,500.

http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2007/10/average-malpractice-premiums-for.html

How about for Arizona?

http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=74&subsectionID=114&articleID=54788

For family practice doctors, who were paying $18,241 annually, the rate reduction means they'll be paying $16,898 for an annual policy that buys them $1 million of liability insurance per year with a cap of three $1 million losses a year, Carland explained.

Game. Set. Match.

[HowardRoark]

Re: A hidden valley in Colorado

Look, if an operation costs 50K here, and 25K there.....

Why the price disparity?

And as a follow up, you seem to be a very eager proponent of free markets in medicine….go to Thailand!!! It’s cheaper!!! Why do we hear over and over nowadays that going AWAY from free markets is the answer?

ty is right on this, but he is missing the point. the price desparity has to do with taking advantage of cheap labor and the US over regulating health care in every way. Propping up HMO's so they could artificially gain market share....I've been over all this before and I don't feel like typing on this laptop keyboard, but companies are going to fly you to that one hospital in thailand to save 20k, and offer you 5k to do it, they already are.

That was the point I was trying to get out of Ty. You get all the feel good Lefty talk going, but the free market keeps chugging along all over the world. Before you know it, poof!....an industry is gone. Don’t feel so good anymore….just ask all those pensioners at GM and Ford. But I’m sure it felt good to demand all that stuff from the evil oppressors back in the day though.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Re: A hidden valley in Colorado

Look, if an operation costs 50K here, and 25K there.....

Why the price disparity?

And as a follow up, you seem to be a very eager proponent of free markets in medicine….go to Thailand!!! It’s cheaper!!! Why do we hear over and over nowadays that going AWAY from free markets is the answer?

ty is right on this, but he is missing the point. the price desparity has to do with taking advantage of cheap labor and the US over regulating health care in every way. Propping up HMO's so they could artificially gain market share....I've been over all this before and I don't feel like typing on this laptop keyboard, but companies are going to fly you to that one hospital in thailand to save 20k, and offer you 5k to do it, they already are.

That was the point I was trying to get out of Ty. You get all the feel good Lefty talk going, but the free market keeps chugging along all over the world. Before you know it, poof!....an industry is gone. Don’t feel so good anymore….just ask all those pensioners at GM and Ford. But I’m sure it felt good to demand all that stuff from the evil oppressors back in the day though.

The industry isn't gone. It is changed. Do you think that we will all be flying there for initial consultations? Do you think we will be flying there for 10k operations.

The point you miss is that there will still be doctors here..making a good living. They may not make as much, they may have to change what they do, but there won't be a loss of them.

You and rand paint bleak pictures, yet the facts dont' support you. YOu can't produce any sort of factual proof, it is strictly anecdotal. Wow, i can do that as well.

The fact is that currently, 25% of all doctors in this country weren't educated here. I see no problem with that. That is the free market. Why are you now complaining.


As for pensions: It is clear that you never took a history class. Pensions weren't solely the demand of the worker..it was started by the companies themselves in concert with the workers.

In 1949, management and the United Auto Workers were battling over the terms of their next contract. Times were good and we were all buying autos in the postwar boom, so GM management was eager to avoid a strike. Meanwhile, autoworkers lacked pensions and feared correctly that the country was still far away from adopting universal health care. These circumstances created an opportunity for a seemingly perfect bargain that came to be known as the "Treaty of Detroit."

GM jumped at a UAW proposal that, in lieu of large wage increases, would set up a pension plan and offer half-price health insurance. The short-term costs would be minimal because, as the UAW pointed out, the average GM worker then had only seven years of experience and a mere fifth were over 50. Left unconsidered was the inevitability that these workers would age, and that if GM did not put aside sufficient funds to pay for their future benefits, the next generation of GM managers and workers would be saddled with an impossible encumbrance.

ANd, leave it to you..a company apologist to blame the workers when the companies have not set aside the money to make good on their promises.

Both struck a deal. The workers fulfilled their obligation..but, let's blame them for forcing GM to make the deal.

Must be a hoot to enter a contract with you.

[HowardRoark]

Re: A hidden valley in Colorado

[quote]

Look, if an operation costs 50K here, and 25K there.....

Why the price disparity?

And as a follow up, you seem to be a very eager proponent of free markets in medicine….go to Thailand!!! It’s cheaper!!! Why do we hear over and over nowadays that going AWAY from free markets is the answer?

ty is right on this, but he is missing the point. the price desparity has to do with taking advantage of cheap labor and the US over regulating health care in every way. Propping up HMO's so they could artificially gain market share....I've been over all this before and I don't feel like typing on this laptop keyboard, but companies are going to fly you to that one hospital in thailand to save 20k, and offer you 5k to do it, they already are.

That was the point I was trying to get out of Ty. You get all the feel good Lefty talk going, but the free market keeps chugging along all over the world. Before you know it, poof!....an industry is gone. Don’t feel so good anymore….just ask all those pensioners at GM and Ford. But I’m sure it felt good to demand all that stuff from the evil oppressors back in the day though.

The industry isn't gone. It is changed. Do you think that we will all be flying there for initial consultations? Do you think we will be flying there for 10k operations.

The point you miss is that there will still be doctors here..making a good living. They may not make as much, they may have to change what they do, but there won't be a loss of them.

You and rand paint bleak pictures, yet the facts dont' support you. YOu can't produce any sort of factual proof, it is strictly anecdotal. Wow, i can do that as well.

The fact is that currently, 25% of all doctors in this country weren't educated here. I see no problem with that. That is the free market. Why are you now complaining.


As for pensions: It is clear that you never took a history class. Pensions weren't solely the demand of the worker..it was started by the companies themselves in concert with the workers.

In 1949, management and the United Auto Workers were battling over the terms of their next contract. Times were good and we were all buying autos in the postwar boom, so GM management was eager to avoid a strike. Meanwhile, autoworkers lacked pensions and feared correctly that the country was still far away from adopting universal health care. These circumstances created an opportunity for a seemingly perfect bargain that came to be known as the "Treaty of Detroit."

GM jumped at a UAW proposal that, in lieu of large wage increases, would set up a pension plan and offer half-price health insurance. The short-term costs would be minimal because, as the UAW pointed out, the average GM worker then had only seven years of experience and a mere fifth were over 50. Left unconsidered was the inevitability that these workers would age, and that if GM did not put aside sufficient funds to pay for their future benefits, the next generation of GM managers and workers would be saddled with an impossible encumbrance.

ANd, leave it to you..a company apologist to blame the workers when the companies have not set aside the money to make good on their promises.

Both struck a deal. The workers fulfilled their obligation..but, let's blame them for forcing GM to make the deal.

I will let Philip flesh out your ideas in context:

Book Review

Bankrupt Nation

A Financial Journalist Explains Why All Our Debts Are Coming Due.
By Phillip Longman, New America Foundation

The Washington Post | June 15, 2008 The over-confidence in their financial futures, combined with a pattern of half-conscious decisions to avoid tough choices at the expense of tomorrow, helped ruin GM, the NYC subway and the City of San Diego.


For a married couple, talking about money can be hard. But the cost of using a credit card to put off the conversation is almost always worse. So it is with a company, a city or a country. In While America Aged, financial journalist Roger Lowenstein uses the stories of three deeply encumbered institutions -- General Motors, the New York City subway system and the City of San Diego -- as examples not only of the way most individual Americans conduct their personal finances, but also of how the country as a whole has long lived beyond its means. What these institutions have in common is a sad history of over-confidence in their financial futures, combined with a pattern of half-conscious decisions by all involved -- labor and management, politicians and voters -- to avoid tough choices at the expense of tomorrow. And, as it happens, that tomorrow is now.


Lowenstein's account of how pension debt undid General Motors is particularly telling. In 1949, management and the United Auto Workers were battling over the terms of their next contract. Times were flush as Americans flocked to buy autos in the postwar boom, so GM management was eager to avoid a strike. Meanwhile, autoworkers lacked pensions and feared correctly that the country was still far away from adopting universal health care. These circumstances created an opportunity for a seemingly perfect bargain that came to be known as the "Treaty of Detroit."


GM jumped at a UAW proposal that, in lieu of large wage increases, would set up a pension plan and offer half-price health insurance. The short-term costs would be minimal because, as the UAW pointed out, the average GM worker then had only seven years of experience and a mere fifth were over 50. Left unconsidered was the inevitability that these workers would age, and that if GM did not put aside sufficient funds to pay for their future benefits, the next generation of GM managers and workers would be saddled with an impossible encumbrance.


And that's what happened. Time and again, management and labor struck deals for more generous future benefits without taking into account the resulting liability. As actuaries warned of a long-term buildup of pension debt, GM made the debt disappear on paper by using sunny assumptions about the company's growth prospects -- assumptions that ignored the competition GM would face from foreign automakers that did not have to build huge pension and retiree health care costs into the prices of their cars. By the mid-1990s, GM was compelled to pour so much into its pension fund to make up its deficit that, with the same money, it could have acquired half of Toyota or funded the development of market-dominating, high-efficiency cars to better compete.


This pattern recurred throughout American industry during the second half of the 20th century, and it accounts for much of the decline in the country's industrial competitiveness as well as for myriad market distortions. Railroads, for example, have always been far more energy efficient than trucks and in recent years have made spectacular gains in labor efficiency. Yet among the freight railroads carry is a huge legacy of pension debt under the industry's government-administered and historically underfunded pension plan, which now costs 16 percent of payroll. Most truckers, by contrast, don't even have pensions, let alone have to carry the burden of paying for drivers long since retired. That difference in legacy cost is enough to keep a lot of freight barreling down crowded highways on energy-guzzling trucks instead of going by rail.


The federal government's pension bailout agency, the Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation, itself faces a liability of more than $14 billion as it pays off the benefits of more than 1.3 million people whose plans have failed. Many other businesses, from Sears to IBM, have frozen their pension funds and shifted workers into defined contribution, or 401(k) plans, which require workers to bear the full risk if their investments lose value. As Teresa Ghilarducci points out in When I'm Sixty-Four, another new book on America's crumbling pension system, these trends leave the next generation of retirees in sorry shape. According to Ghilarducci, the average balance in the 401(k) plans of people approaching retirement age is just $59,000. At today's interest rates, that buys an annuity yielding less than $500 a month, with no adjustment for inflation. A report released last Thursday by the McKinsey Global Institute finds that 69 percent of Americans approaching retirement age lack sufficient funds to avoid a significant decline in their standard of living.


Lowenstein also chronicles the enormous debts now coming due for state and local pension plans. Ever wondered why it costs $2 to ride the New York City subway? Lowenstein will show you that much of the fare goes to cover rides taken in the 1960s and '70s -- that is, for unfunded pension debt. San Diego's municipal pension fund was $1.7 billion in the hole by 2005, a debt equivalent to $6,000 for every family of four in the city.


Having struggled for years to make my own writing on pension issues interesting enough for anyone to want to read, I particularly appreciate Lowenstein's use of real people to illustrate the deeper financial issues involved. Even if they sometimes contain too much detail, there is a kind of gripping, slow-motion train wreck quality to the long, sad stories Lowenstein tells about people and institutions in deep denial. And those stories certainly have a clear moral. Boiling it down to its essence on the book's final page, he concludes, "The most effective remedy -- in pensions, health care, and even in Social Security -- is to banish the credit card. Benefits should not be charged to a future generation; they should be paid for now." Sadly, though, even if we can refrain from borrowing more from our children, we will still bear the dead weight of past borrowing that now falls to us.

And who was it that pushed the envelope?



And now, who will bail out this mess?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Again, who forced gm to sign the contract? Nobody.

They made their deals, they got fat and happy when times were good. They made or didnt' make calculations based on the future.

It is so great for you to ignore the massive profits they were able to make..and reward shareholders based on the denial or present day wages to their employees.

As for striking workers for pensions..should they ask for increased wages. GM so likes to do that.

Like i said. I would hate to enter into a contract with you. Your mistakes or windfalls should invalidate any contract you sign.