Joe the Plumber

[mraynrand]

How could the truth of that and the importance of that NOT resonate with voters?

Because it is completely removed from their current reality. Bush's success in preventing another 9/11 scale attack basically puts it on the back burner. You can make the argument that another attack would tank the economy, and you're correct, but no one cares about that when they are watching their 401Ks go down the toilet.

[texaspackerbacker]

How could the truth of that and the importance of that NOT resonate with voters?

Because it is completely removed from their current reality. Bush's success in preventing another 9/11 scale attack basically puts it on the back burner. You can make the argument that another attack would tank the economy, and you're correct, but no one cares about that when they are watching their 401Ks go down the toilet.

And what the hell would happen to those 401 Ks if there was another or a series of serious terrorist hits?

The "current reality" is a bogus scenario painted by the leftist mainstream media--could you possibly disagree with that?

What is surprising is that they could be horribly successful in hoodwinking so many.

[mraynrand]

How could the truth of that and the importance of that NOT resonate with voters?

Because it is completely removed from their current reality. Bush's success in preventing another 9/11 scale attack basically puts it on the back burner. You can make the argument that another attack would tank the economy, and you're correct, but no one cares about that when they are watching their 401Ks go down the toilet.

And what the hell would happen to those 401 Ks if there was another or a series of serious terrorist hits?

The "current reality" is a bogus scenario painted by the leftist mainstream media--could you possibly disagree with that?

What is surprising is that they could be horribly successful in hoodwinking so many.

Mostly true, except I don't think it's totally bogus, but is definitely being played up. The press knows what they're doing.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/what_barack_obama_learned_from.html

[hoosier]

Looks like the Joe the Plumber story has a few, uh, cracks in it. He's a plumber, but...he doens't have a license (required to do plumbing work in Ohio) and he owes back taxes. I bet the back taxes thing will make him even more of a hero on Fox, though.

[sheepshead]

Looks like the Joe the Plumber story has a few, uh, cracks in it. He's a plumber, but...he doens't have a license (required to do plumbing work in Ohio) and he owes back taxes. I bet the back taxes thing will make him even more of a hero on Fox, though.

He doesnt need a license but who cares? Most of us get the point here and he put a face on it. Secondly, the MSM has dug into this guy more in 3 days then they have Barry Whosane in 15 months!!!!

Also, what would we find about you? Or me? I think this scrutiny backfires on them.

[Kiwon]

Looks like the Joe the Plumber story has a few, uh, cracks in it. He's a plumber, but...he doens't have a license (required to do plumbing work in Ohio) and he owes back taxes. I bet the back taxes thing will make him even more of a hero on Fox, though.

So his desire to own his own business isn't a worthy one?

I guess the 30% of the population that pay no federal income taxes are the victim/heroes on MSNBC. Gotta keep those welfare programs going to keep the permanent Democratic-voting underclass appeased.

[hoosier]

Looks like the Joe the Plumber story has a few, uh, cracks in it. He's a plumber, but...he doens't have a license (required to do plumbing work in Ohio) and he owes back taxes. I bet the back taxes thing will make him even more of a hero on Fox, though.

He doesnt need a license but who cares? Most of us get the point here and he put a face on it. Secondly, the MSM has dug into this guy more in 3 days then they have Barry Whosane in 15 months!!!!

Also, what would we find about you? Or me? I think this scrutiny backfires on them.

Maybe it backfires for people who already think the "MSM" is part of a giant left-wing conspiracy, but for the rest of the country I suspect it's just dotting the i's at the end of a news cycle. On to the next story.

[sheepshead]

Looks like the Joe the Plumber story has a few, uh, cracks in it. He's a plumber, but...he doens't have a license (required to do plumbing work in Ohio) and he owes back taxes. I bet the back taxes thing will make him even more of a hero on Fox, though.

He doesnt need a license but who cares? Most of us get the point here and he put a face on it. Secondly, the MSM has dug into this guy more in 3 days then they have Barry Whosane in 15 months!!!!

Also, what would we find about you? Or me? I think this scrutiny backfires on them.

Maybe it backfires for people who already think the "MSM" is part of a giant left-wing conspiracy, but for the rest of the country I suspect it's just dotting the i's at the end of a news cycle. On to the next story.

That may be the case, but you sure seem concerned about it several days later.

[Partial]

I was talking with 'Joe the Plumber' yesterday. See my plumber runs a business with about 6 guys. he brings in about 1.5 million/year and takes home about 80-90K himself. He says if his taxes go up, he will 1) increase prices, and 2) lay off his newest guy (who earns about 25K as an apprentice). All I have to say, is that for the 33% of you who currently pay zero income tax and will get the 500 to 1000 dollar check from Joe the Plumber via Barack Extortion, spend that money wisely, it won't go as far and will probably have to last you until at least 2011, since you will likely lose your job. Thanks Barack!

Did you ask what his profits were? Without that critical piece of information, it is impossible to calculate what the change will actually be. The 1.5 M income is irrelevant. His personal taxes will go down, FICA will be unchanged. As a small business he will get a $500 tax credit per employee, plus additional tax credits if he provides health benefits.

Your doom and gloom economic fear-mongering is just bullshit.

My parents have a small business, and their taxes are set to go up significantly. More than enough to put a kid or two through college each year. Funny... that money could go to their kids for tuition. Instead, its going to go to joe homie so he can it on his new air force ones and new rims for his curr.

I suspect you'd feel quite differently if you made anywhere near 250k plus. It's extortion.

[arcilite]

I was talking with 'Joe the Plumber' yesterday. See my plumber runs a business with about 6 guys. he brings in about 1.5 million/year and takes home about 80-90K himself. He says if his taxes go up, he will 1) increase prices, and 2) lay off his newest guy (who earns about 25K as an apprentice). All I have to say, is that for the 33% of you who currently pay zero income tax and will get the 500 to 1000 dollar check from Joe the Plumber via Barack Extortion, spend that money wisely, it won't go as far and will probably have to last you until at least 2011, since you will likely lose your job. Thanks Barack!

Did you ask what his profits were? Without that critical piece of information, it is impossible to calculate what the change will actually be. The 1.5 M income is irrelevant. His personal taxes will go down, FICA will be unchanged. As a small business he will get a $500 tax credit per employee, plus additional tax credits if he provides health benefits.

Your doom and gloom economic fear-mongering is just bullshit.

My parents have a small business, and their taxes are set to go up significantly. More than enough to put a kid or two through college each year. Funny... that money could go to their kids for tuition. Instead, its going to go to joe homie so he can it on his new air force ones and new rims for his curr.

I suspect you'd feel quite differently if you made anywhere near 250k plus. It's extortion.

Unless they employ more than 75 people... I am going to call shenanigans.

[hoosier]

Looks like the Joe the Plumber story has a few, uh, cracks in it. He's a plumber, but...he doens't have a license (required to do plumbing work in Ohio) and he owes back taxes. I bet the back taxes thing will make him even more of a hero on Fox, though.

He doesnt need a license but who cares? Most of us get the point here and he put a face on it. Secondly, the MSM has dug into this guy more in 3 days then they have Barry Whosane in 15 months!!!!

Also, what would we find about you? Or me? I think this scrutiny backfires on them.

Maybe it backfires for people who already think the "MSM" is part of a giant left-wing conspiracy, but for the rest of the country I suspect it's just dotting the i's at the end of a news cycle. On to the next story.

That may be the case, but you sure seem concerned about it several days later.

No, not concerned, just amused. I'll add an emoticon to avoid confusion.

[LL2]

I was talking with 'Joe the Plumber' yesterday. See my plumber runs a business with about 6 guys. he brings in about 1.5 million/year and takes home about 80-90K himself. He says if his taxes go up, he will 1) increase prices, and 2) lay off his newest guy (who earns about 25K as an apprentice). All I have to say, is that for the 33% of you who currently pay zero income tax and will get the 500 to 1000 dollar check from Joe the Plumber via Barack Extortion, spend that money wisely, it won't go as far and will probably have to last you until at least 2011, since you will likely lose your job. Thanks Barack!

Did you ask what his profits were? Without that critical piece of information, it is impossible to calculate what the change will actually be. The 1.5 M income is irrelevant. His personal taxes will go down, FICA will be unchanged. As a small business he will get a $500 tax credit per employee, plus additional tax credits if he provides health benefits.

Your doom and gloom economic fear-mongering is just bullshit.

My parents have a small business, and their taxes are set to go up significantly. More than enough to put a kid or two through college each year. Funny... that money could go to their kids for tuition. Instead, its going to go to joe homie so he can it on his new air force ones and new rims for his curr.

I suspect you'd feel quite differently if you made anywhere near 250k plus. It's extortion.

Unless they employ more than 75 people... I am going to call shenanigans.

I suppose you favor the trickle up poverty of Obama's plan.

[mraynrand]

Looks like the Joe the Plumber story has a few, uh, cracks in it. He's a plumber, but...he doens't have a license (required to do plumbing work in Ohio) and he owes back taxes. I bet the back taxes thing will make him even more of a hero on Fox, though.

He doesnt need a license but who cares? Most of us get the point here and he put a face on it. Secondly, the MSM has dug into this guy more in 3 days then they have Barry Whosane in 15 months!!!!

Also, what would we find about you? Or me? I think this scrutiny backfires on them.

Maybe it backfires for people who already think the "MSM" is part of a giant left-wing conspiracy, but for the rest of the country I suspect it's just dotting the i's at the end of a news cycle. On to the next story.

The point actually is that the Plumber and the details of his life really don't matter at all compared to the essence of what made the story a story - the unscripted, unvarnished, true ideology of Barack Obama - to redistribute wealth - spread that wealth around.

Even my own 'Plumber Joe' story looks like it has some cracks in it. My Plumber is a single guy with 6 total employees. He seems to think the Obama taxes will affect his ability to keep his lowest paid technician. I'm not certain - I don't know what the final result will be with tax credits for this and that (where will they come from?) and what the effect will be on his take home pay. I'm not his accountant, so I don't know for sure. I have to take his word for it - or not.

Either way, it doesn't matter. We know Obama wants to raise taxes on producers and give it away as welfare to 33% of people who pay no taxes. Pelosi wants another 300 Billion stimulus to do a lot of the same. We know what Obama believes because he got caught actually saying it, even though he's tried so hard to hide it (like calling it a 'tax cut' for 95% of people - ever hear that one?)

The over arching ideology that he's been so careful to hide (and Pelosi and Reid as well) - is that at his core, he believes in the redistribution of wealth as an end in itself - Redistribution is about 'fairness' not about doing what is best for the country (recall his view on Cap gains taxes that he expressed to Charlie Gibson - he would raise them - even if it reduced tax revenues, because it's 'fair').

So forgive me if I don't care what Plumber Joe had for breakfast, about his back taxes, or how many speeding tickets, etc. he may have had. It's irrelevant to what Barack Obama believes and will do as president.

[hoosier]

Looks like the Joe the Plumber story has a few, uh, cracks in it. He's a plumber, but...he doens't have a license (required to do plumbing work in Ohio) and he owes back taxes. I bet the back taxes thing will make him even more of a hero on Fox, though.

He doesnt need a license but who cares? Most of us get the point here and he put a face on it. Secondly, the MSM has dug into this guy more in 3 days then they have Barry Whosane in 15 months!!!!

Also, what would we find about you? Or me? I think this scrutiny backfires on them.

Maybe it backfires for people who already think the "MSM" is part of a giant left-wing conspiracy, but for the rest of the country I suspect it's just dotting the i's at the end of a news cycle. On to the next story.

The point actually is that the Plumber and the details of his life really don't matter at all compared to the essence of what made the story a story - the unscripted, unvarnished, true ideology of Barack Obama - to redistribute wealth - spread that wealth around.

Even my own 'Plumber Joe' story looks like it has some cracks in it. My Plumber is a single guy with 6 total employees. He seems to think the Obama taxes will affect his ability to keep his lowest paid technician. I'm not certain - I don't know what the final result will be with tax credits for this and that (where will they come from?) and what the effect will be on his take home pay. I'm not his accountant, so I don't know for sure. I have to take his word for it - or not.

Either way, it doesn't matter. We know Obama wants to raise taxes on producers and give it away as welfare to 33% of people who pay no taxes. Pelosi wants another 300 Billion stimulus to do a lot of the same. We know what Obama believes because he got caught actually saying it, even though he's tried so hard to hide it (like calling it a 'tax cut' for 95% of people - ever hear that one?)

The over arching ideology that he's been so careful to hide (and Pelosi and Reid as well) - is that at his core, he believes in the redistribution of wealth as an end in itself - Redistribution is about 'fairness' not about doing what is best for the country (recall his view on Cap gains taxes that he expressed to Charlie Gibson - he would raise them - even if it reduced tax revenues, because it's 'fair').

So forgive me if I don't care what Plumber Joe had for breakfast, about his back taxes, or how many speeding tickets, etc. he may have had. It's irrelevant to what Barack Obama believes and will do as president.

You're missing the point. Joe the Plumber spoke and continues to speak to the choir, that's clear. And for the same choir it's now clearer than ever that Obama is really a socialist. But, politically speaking, that changes nothing.

What's really important, from a political perspective, is that the story seemed to be acquiring wings for a short time when it also seemed to be able to speak to the unconverted, or the uncommitted voters. But that was contingent on Joe the Plumber's ability to embody virtue, and specifically the kind of virtue that conservatives want to associate with successful entrepreneurial spirit--which Obama, or so the story goes, would end up killing. But now that link--and again, its a link that has to be clear to the uncommmitted--has been broken because it's clear that Joe doesn't embody any sort of virtue.

[mraynrand]

Looks like the Joe the Plumber story has a few, uh, cracks in it. He's a plumber, but...he doens't have a license (required to do plumbing work in Ohio) and he owes back taxes. I bet the back taxes thing will make him even more of a hero on Fox, though.

He doesnt need a license but who cares? Most of us get the point here and he put a face on it. Secondly, the MSM has dug into this guy more in 3 days then they have Barry Whosane in 15 months!!!!

Also, what would we find about you? Or me? I think this scrutiny backfires on them.

Maybe it backfires for people who already think the "MSM" is part of a giant left-wing conspiracy, but for the rest of the country I suspect it's just dotting the i's at the end of a news cycle. On to the next story.

The point actually is that the Plumber and the details of his life really don't matter at all compared to the essence of what made the story a story - the unscripted, unvarnished, true ideology of Barack Obama - to redistribute wealth - spread that wealth around.

Even my own 'Plumber Joe' story looks like it has some cracks in it. My Plumber is a single guy with 6 total employees. He seems to think the Obama taxes will affect his ability to keep his lowest paid technician. I'm not certain - I don't know what the final result will be with tax credits for this and that (where will they come from?) and what the effect will be on his take home pay. I'm not his accountant, so I don't know for sure. I have to take his word for it - or not.

Either way, it doesn't matter. We know Obama wants to raise taxes on producers and give it away as welfare to 33% of people who pay no taxes. Pelosi wants another 300 Billion stimulus to do a lot of the same. We know what Obama believes because he got caught actually saying it, even though he's tried so hard to hide it (like calling it a 'tax cut' for 95% of people - ever hear that one?)

The over arching ideology that he's been so careful to hide (and Pelosi and Reid as well) - is that at his core, he believes in the redistribution of wealth as an end in itself - Redistribution is about 'fairness' not about doing what is best for the country (recall his view on Cap gains taxes that he expressed to Charlie Gibson - he would raise them - even if it reduced tax revenues, because it's 'fair').

So forgive me if I don't care what Plumber Joe had for breakfast, about his back taxes, or how many speeding tickets, etc. he may have had. It's irrelevant to what Barack Obama believes and will do as president.

You're missing the point. Joe the Plumber spoke and continues to speak to the choir, that's clear. And for the same choir it's now clearer than ever that Obama is really a socialist. But, politically speaking, that changes nothing.

What's really important, from a political perspective, is that the story seemed to be acquiring wings for a short time when it also seemed to be able to speak to the unconverted, or the uncommitted voters. But that was contingent on Joe the Plumber's ability to embody virtue, and specifically the kind of virtue that conservatives want to associate with successful entrepreneurial spirit--which Obama, or so the story goes, would end up killing. But now that link--and again, its a link that has to be clear to the uncommmitted--has been broken because it's clear that Joe doesn't embody any sort of virtue.

You sound like Joe Biden, insluting the guy because he doesn't have a license. And I completely disagree with your conclusion. Joe himself doesn't matter - only Obama's positions, revealed in his converation with Joe, matter, since all those people 'with virtue' know that Obama wants to punish them for earning money. That link is now crystal clear.