Proposition 8

[sheepshead]

It should also tell us that any sort of liberal "shift" is bunk.

i disagree on some level - i don't think pro-gay marriage is a mainstream democratic stance - not yet at least

I said liberal...with all due respect, there's a significant difference.

[Zool]

What bobblehead said is the crux of the matter. Believe it or not, there are still people that believe in the whole sacred union part of marriage - that it's not just a civil service or a joining of health care benefits, but a religious vow. Those people want to protect that definition for themselves more than they want to stop a couple of queers from wearing matching wedding dresses, holding hands, and being recognized as a joined couple. They can call it whatever they want, but it's not marriage.

I seem to recall something in there about til death, but thats pretty much out the fucking window too for like 55% of the marriages.

I don't give 2 shits if "the gays" want to get married, but I'll vote on anything that says they shouldn't be allowed to adopt. I don't care how loving the household is. Lets maybe put some more money into stopping these pregnancies in the first. Pass out condoms daily in high school. Its not going to make kids have sex more. Put condom vending machines in the bathrooms too. Make kids watch the "miracle" of child birth at a young age. Give them the class where they have to take care of a baby for a week.

[SkinBasket]

What bobblehead said is the crux of the matter. Believe it or not, there are still people that believe in the whole sacred union part of marriage - that it's not just a civil service or a joining of health care benefits, but a religious vow. Those people want to protect that definition for themselves more than they want to stop a couple of queers from wearing matching wedding dresses, holding hands, and being recognized as a joined couple. They can call it whatever they want, but it's not marriage.

I seem to recall something in there about til death, but thats pretty much out the fucking window too for like 55% of the marriages.

The success rate doesn't change the definition. Especially for those who are more likely to believe in their vows and to be in the 45%.

[packinpatland]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

[Zool]

What bobblehead said is the crux of the matter. Believe it or not, there are still people that believe in the whole sacred union part of marriage - that it's not just a civil service or a joining of health care benefits, but a religious vow. Those people want to protect that definition for themselves more than they want to stop a couple of queers from wearing matching wedding dresses, holding hands, and being recognized as a joined couple. They can call it whatever they want, but it's not marriage.

I seem to recall something in there about til death, but thats pretty much out the fucking window too for like 55% of the marriages.

The success rate doesn't change the definition. Especially for those who are more likely to believe in their vows and to be in the 45%.

Then let the gays have a crack at it. Maybe they're better at it.

[LL2]

Re: Proposition 8

The gay marriage ban. As of typing this It looks like it will pass.

Ugh, this is absurd.


Why do people think that something other people do that HAS NOTHING TO DEAL WITH THEM AT ALL....is wrong

Why do you need to be involved in something that does not effect you or your interests.

Man, America can be inspiring and troubling at the same time.

The real point here is, it was voted on. What ever the outcome. It becomes up to the people. NOT JUDGES.

Yes, you are correct, but I'm sure we will see this challenged in court and some liberal judges will throw it out....for the second time.

If the majority of the people feel there should be no gay marriage, and I believe this thing needed 60% to pass, then the judges and politicians need to respect the vote of the majority. Obviously with this thing passing most people do not share Arcilite's views.

[3irty1]

We're just looking to regulate everything these days aren't we?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm Christian and Libertarian. On this issue, the clear answer to me is civil unions. They can have their own weddings. They can get all of the same benefits that a married couple get. I think it's a good compromise, but there are some that want to spit in the face of our foundation, ideals, traditions, or whatever you want to call it.

[SkinBasket]

What bobblehead said is the crux of the matter. Believe it or not, there are still people that believe in the whole sacred union part of marriage - that it's not just a civil service or a joining of health care benefits, but a religious vow. Those people want to protect that definition for themselves more than they want to stop a couple of queers from wearing matching wedding dresses, holding hands, and being recognized as a joined couple. They can call it whatever they want, but it's not marriage.

I seem to recall something in there about til death, but thats pretty much out the fucking window too for like 55% of the marriages.

The success rate doesn't change the definition. Especially for those who are more likely to believe in their vows and to be in the 45%.

Then let the gays have a crack at it. Maybe they're better at it.

I agree, let them have a crack at "it," but calling "it" marriage doesn't fit the definition of marriage. Most queers I've known didn't want it called marriage either and you'll only be offending those who believe in the more religious aspects. Gays for the most part are clever. Let them come up with their own term. I'm sure it'll be fabulous.

[mraynrand]

The real cool thing is that proposition 10 passed in Ohio. I am now officially a Golden Retriever. You cannot, by force of law, say that I am not. You must also change print and other media to say that some humans are born as Goldens. To do otherwise is to discriminate against me, and is unconstitutional under the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment. Unfortunately, according to local laws I must remain on a leash and be neutered.

[sheepshead]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

Again with all due respect it's called "parenting". Liberalism is popular because it's easy. This is another example.

[packinpatland]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

Again with all due respect it's called "parenting". Liberalism is popular because it's easy. This is another example.

All due respect to you, I know alittle bit about parenting. I have 3 very successful daughters. My husband and I were, still are, very good parents. Letting children form their own opinions is alot harder than trying to mold them into thinking the way you want them to.

[falco]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

Again with all due respect it's called "parenting". Liberalism is popular because it's easy. This is another example.

All due respect to you, I know alittle bit about parenting. I have 3 very successful daughters. My husband and I were, still are, very good parents. Letting children form their own opinions is alot harder than trying to mold them into thinking the way you want them to.

I agree 100% PIP - I am very grateful that my parents believed in my ability to make my own decisions about the world.

[HowardRoark]

I think it will be far more troubling when I have to explain to my young children what is wrong with those two men walking down the street holding hands...

Please think before you speak.

Why feel the need to explain anything? Why say it's wrong? Let them come to their own conclusions.
As to the notion of adoption. My kids have plenty of friends with two moms or two dads. We went to these kid's weddings (3 this summer) They had gay parents, they chose straight partners. They grew up in loving homes....the alternative could have been orphanages or foster homes.
On this particular issue, where there really is no bearing on anyone other than those directly involved, why should it bother you so much?

Again with all due respect it's called "parenting". Liberalism is popular because it's easy. This is another example.

All due respect to you, I know alittle bit about parenting. I have 3 very successful daughters. My husband and I were, still are, very good parents. Letting children form their own opinions is alot harder than trying to mold them into thinking the way you want them to.

Do you guys at least acknowledge that being a Lefty in today’s day is the easiest thing in the world to do? If you really want to show how “open” and “diverse” you are, become a Conservative. The irony of all ironies is that all the Baby Boomers who have been fighting the “man” are the “man.”

Celebrate Diversity!!!!!!! Of thought.

By the way, it’s a lot, not alot.

[mraynrand]

Letting children form their own opinions is alot harder than trying to mold them into thinking the way you want them to.

And of course, those are the only two mutually exclusive options. Either you are 'letting them form their own opinions' or you are 'molding them to your own thinking.' Is 'letting them form their own opinions' your own thinking?